Help on how to behave

[25yearsmlc]

I doubt I can even read all this, but can you agree NOT to ask her how she feels again? If she has something important to say, she knows where you are. Don't seek it out as it's a form of pursuit AND it sets you up for being hurt

AND It cements her negative feelings and the negative images she uses to justify her choice to leave. Don't force her to repeat them. And

Just b/c she SAYS it's how she feels, does not make it true.

Second, even if she DOES FEEL that way, at that moment, that changes.

My journal from 05/06 is filled with anger at h and my life and how our m had been "bad and unfair to ME for so long". Makes me mad again to read it so I rarely do.

Point is, what we think we feel at that moment isn't always real and can often change. Usually does change And we evolve.

Stop asking her to hurt you. When she shares something you can LEARN from, treat it as "recon" or "intel", that a spy would want to learn.

Then make whatever changes you want to make

to become a man only a fool would leave.

But let go of the rest...

I already responded to this post in an earlier one but wanted to make sure you get that you must stop the sucker punches you set yourself up for.

More later.

Got this e-mail from W today. Pretty uch spells out how she feels:

'So you want to know how I feel? I’m so angry. I feel cornered and trapped and my future lies in your hands, like you have total control. I’m not happy with that at all.
We wouldn’t have this house if it wasn’t for me. I fought to the bitter end to keep it when me and Tony split up because it was the one stability for Alex. You know how much it cost me to do it.
It was the only house we had.

none of this^^^ is your problem or even relates to you. it's interesting that SHE is willing to take Alex from the only home he's known..and she wants to UPGRADE to a house that is better than this one, at your expense?

Sorry to be political but I'm in the US. Are you saying she gets "benefits' meaning taxpayers pay her to leave her marriage or subsidize it?

Gee, no wonder divorce is rampant. And you have to kick her out to get the most money? Anyone else think the incentives here are ass backwards?

Okay enough from me, now. I have to catch up on the rest of this...


I allowed you to move in here when I could have let you stay where you were.

Um am I missing something here? I mean, that would have made NO sense since you were getting married...right?


I was paying it all myself with no help from anyone and I could have continued to do that.

so she got nothing from her first h? Why not?


You had nothing, you lived with your mum and dad, and at the ripe age of 26 you hadn’t ever had your own place for long, not had a proper job for long and your mum was running your bank account.


then why'd she fall in love w/you? You must have offered her something...get back to being that guy she fell in love with and don't be shocked if she finds good memories resurfacing in her mind/heart

once she feels she has the space or ability to reflect. That will take some form of sep but so be it. At least not at your expense,

And if you did pay for it, why pay for one that is an Upgrade? Did I read that right? What's wrong with her getting a small but decent place for her and son? There are fewer people living there and all.


I had a good job, I worked hard to get where I was and I don’t think you ever realised the responsibility I had or how much I had to do.

Um, blah blah blah.

I Guess she had no way of feeling good about herself, which is YOUR fault too...??? Yes I believe words of affirmation are ONE of her love languages.

She may have more than one (I do. Acts of Svc and quality time together).

Given the disabled son at home, she may have needed a break or quality time (dates planned by you, special times, etc) I have an autistic brother who is now 45 y/o.

He was very hard on my parents and our family. almost constant conflict before his diagnosis and NO information back then on what it was. Sorry to say this but my fear about each child I gave birth to, was not a birth defect like Down syndrome so much as autism. Hardest thing for ME to work with.

FWIW, he now holds a good job down, (graduated from college too) and served 4 years in the military. He is married with one child. He's still 'nerdy" but his wife loves him.

YES they have "conflict avoidance" problems (my brother's conflict resolution skills are virtually nil. He gets mad, complains, escalates and leaves/storms out and retreats...and learns nothing from that).

That might end their m's. But so far he's outperformed my highest hopes for him, so I can't whine too much.

I suggested Retrovaille for them, (my h and I went) and I hope you may get the chance to go someday. Do you know of it?

If not, I'll write more later...but the short answer is that it's a weekend marriage retreat for marriages in crisis. It's not for "tune ups" for happy couples who have a task to work on, so much as major issues/overhauls.

Hearing the "team couples" there tell THEIR stories, is very inspiring. Your problems will pale in comparison to theirs.

And don't get bugged about the "religious" appearance of the Retrovaille website. (Ours wasn't, but I heard some websites are).

First off they have non denominational retreats too, so if it originating in the Catholic Church in Canada bothers you, look there.

Second, though I'm Catholic, my h is not. I greatly feared they'd present some theology and want him to "sign up"

or convert, etc/.

NOT once did he feel pressured to "be Catholic" when we were there. I think we prayed generically once or twice for our marriages. (Not a problem for me or him.

When the retreat ended, those interested could attend mass, which was scheduled for that Sunday time anyhow. We did go but some did not.

We got A LOT out of Retrovaille and I can't say enough about it.

Not sure where you live, but it's global. SOMEDAY NOT SOON, she may go with you...

til then, be the best dad/man you can become. B/c you want to, b/c your son needs you now more than ever, and that's all.

Your w may "resent" the changes as "NOW???" and say "too little too late" but dont' underestimate the chances of her feeling regret

that some OW will benefit by having the new/improved YOU, whom she had to "whip into shape". Even though we know otherwise,

what matters is that MOST people would be bothered if their spouse changed into a better person for THEIR LATER m or r...and your w is no exception.

Last but not least, I have 2 family members who sep, and then divorced. They were apart for 3 years and 5 years. Then they remarried. And were happier. So it happens.


I also don’t think you ever realised how much I had done in the past to get to where I was at work. I’d done the project thing driving around; meeting big wigs and entertaining clients and a lot of that as a single mum too. You came to see me in my office and maybe you just didn’t realise, but either
Again, none of this ^^^has a thing to do with you. it's about how HARD HER life was. Too bad. In time she may find pride in her history instead of bitterness. But relying on the government dole can't do much for that, in my opinion.

way you never acknowledged it.


really? NEVER??? IF so , which I doubt, then you have one simple task there. Compliment the work she did. Enough said. And if it's NOT true, then let it go.

You cannot convince her you did affirm her. NOT with words today.



You continued to work at Bolton on your terrible wage and you did not see for some time that it was not a wage to support you really, let alone pay for a house and bills.
I remember having a big row when I was pregnant and throwing the scan video at you;

Now she's just beyotching at you, for the past. She's living in the past!
She wants to be 'right" more than she wants to be happy.

Don't react to her.

Since there's no time machine for you to go back into the past with, there's NO reason to spend any time on it. Again, my biggest regret was in not realizing that staring/obsessing about the past, took away my energy. Time and energy much better spent on MY life and future AND my kids...not asking "why?" Or trying to fgure out h's plans/feelings/thoughts.

So much wasted time I could have been healing faster and feeling better. And helping my kids do the same. We could have travelled more, sooner. (I did take the kids to Italy and that was the best money I borrowed, begged and "found" in my budget.

If you can travel with your son(s), do so. A weekend skiing or the beach? Do the kids interact well enough? Autism has such a range, it's hard to advise you on that.

Also There are autism support groups globally. Join one! ( I read that 75% of marriages with autistic kids end in divorce, OR so I read.)

I'd bet it's a factor in her behavior and depression.
I know that parenting an autistic child, is perhaps the most unrewarding or thankless type of parenting.

Assuming you can travel with the sons, then do so on a short trip. Teach them they are still your boys, and that you can still have FUN, together, with or without their mom. (Someday maybe it'll be a second w you bring, and they can see a happier healthy m).



trying really hard to get you to take some responsibility and realise that we needed more money and that fell to you. I was pregnant and soon to be on mat leave andI couldn’t do any more than I was doing. It should have been something that you stepped up to yourself but it took me shouting and falling out before you moved.

was that really the ONLY thing that would work with you? Is that her typical "request" approach? I can't say I'd miss that.


You got the new job eventually, but for whatever reason you chose not to keep work informed of what we lived with at home. I know you felt under threat and it’s harsh of me to say, but not getting up in the mornings or being late would not give a good impression anywhere.

where is she going with this professional review AND marital HISTORY lesson? I KNOW she's revising it.

But is her point supposed to be that you blew your job OR that you ought to have told them about your home situation w/disabled son and SAHM who needs a break? OR, that she doesn't feel you did it fast enough?
Just not sure what her goal is in saying all this except about how you owe her everything.

So YOUR WORK, which enabled her to stay with youngest son, is worthless?

Amounts to nothing? Okay just checking...


If you had have told them about home, they would have afforded you some understanding therefore securing your position. I remember asking you to tell them to reduce our worries, but you wouldn’t, you just decided that you’d go all out in the job instead.

as the wife of a physician (doctor) I relate somewhat to ^^^ this.

But I also let it go long ago. If I had not, I'd still be miserable. I'd have taught my kids to hold grudges. And we'd be divorced.

I forgave and let go NOT for my h. Not because he 'deserved it".

I let it go and I forgave b/c my anger/pain and resentment were consuming me. They were not hurting my h, they were ruining MY LIFE.

I forgave wso MY LIFE WOULD IMPROVE and it did. And my kids were/are happier to this day.

There's a saying---"holding onto anger to punish someone else,

is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes."

Hope I made the point well enough. it's late!



Telling them wouldn’t have only released pressure on you, but me too, at home with two kids. You focussed on the job and didn’t understand that the pressures were building up for me too.

did your work know you had a family or a special needs son? If not, why not? Did/Would it make any difference to them?


The exams. I struggled alone with the kids whilst you did them and I know they weren’t easy but you really didn’t have to give me or the kids much thought did you? You knew I would handle it all and I did.

so she is a "long suffering martyr" or what? How often did she
TELL YOU DIRECTLY, to help her more??


Lots of evening at your mums and in those days you didn’t help with bedtimes, and certainly not with housework stuff except washing up. You have done a lot of kitchen tidying, but it is one room in a house full of eight rooms.
So, all this time the gardening, Jacob, Alex, house, cleaning, washing, cooking, finances and responsibility was all mine and I took it all on.

Enough of her victimhood. She "took it all on"? really? Never asked for help or thanked YOUR MOM for her help or offers?

OKay then THANK your w for her solo work "back then" and THEN LET IT GO.

If she prefers living in the past, there's nothing YOU can do about that -except tell her YOU want to stay focussed on the "now" - and create a good future for your kids & you.



Out of the last 13 years you have stepped up to share all or at least some of all that only in the last few months since you’ve known you’ve lost me.
Twelve years of mum-like care are worth something. I know you brought the money home,

don't let her forget it! Not in a mean way, but as a gentle reminder that while she was struggling at home OR taking her walks, you were WORKING for your family.

You were not on a golf trip or at a bar, or eating dinner at a nice restaurant....you made your contributions too. Now SHE wants out of the marriage, but forgets that you did work IN the marriage and you did Not want to end it. She does....



but I have contributed with benefits and bits and bobs until recently. I know you worked hard to get where you are, only you did that but you would not have done it without my backing and taking over at home; you weren’t here enough to do otherwise.

no comment except to say she cannot give you credit for anything without taking credit herself.

Now we’re here. I didn’t envisage this, but I now accept that I have probably thought about it for some time and not been brave enough, always thought this would do and I’d feel differently, but that hasn’t happened. I feel like a no-one and I think you’ve helped that. You certainly haven’t made me feel otherwise and you certainly have not cared for me emotionally.

YOU are in charge of YOUR happiness and she is in charge of hers. I don't think she knows this, or wants that responsibility. But it belongs to HER and not you. Period. So don't buy into the "you certainly have not cared for
me emotionally." Not your job. Your job was to love her as best you knew how.

Now you know more and will do better. What else is there to say NOW???
I have asked you to sign the guarantor because I have no-one else. It’s my only chance to have a rented house no matter where I go.

NOT YOUR^^^^ responsibility.

If she'd chosen an affordable place you could help with and not risk so much, then this would POSSIBLY be debatable. But she did not.

And how would SHE pay anything? I didn't hear that she has a job. Does she?

I’m a stay at home mum; stay at home because that’s what I’ve done for the last 13 years.


well, LUCKY FOR HER!!! And your son! I know it's often tiring and unrewarding with a special needs kid. I mean it, I saw it growing up with my little brother and our family. It was VERY tough. But geez, her attitude is SO negative it's hard to read this.

Many women with special needs kids don't have a h who earns enough to afford them staying at home.

So truly, did YOU feel appreciated by her? Did she ever thank you? Just wondering.


I have tried to do other things to better myself and it was impossible, primarily because I couldn’t do everything and work or learn too. Jacob needed one of us at home and that was me.

did you force HER to give up her job and stay with son, or not? Let's not forget she had and made choices!


You climbed your corporate ladder without much of a worry for anything else because I covered it all and I’ve never had too much recognition for that over the years.

blah blah blah SHE's the reason for YOUR success and work and YOU are the reason for her failures...okay we get it. This is not original, btw..

I cannot guarantee my benefits any more than you can guarantee your wages for the next twelve months, BUT its 12 months, not a lifetime. After the twelve months I will not be asking you again.

how would you KNOW or enforce that? Won't you still pay to help with your son?

I have had to beg enough as it is whilst you keep me dangling because you’re not happy.

excuse me? Was she "begging" before or after she was screaming?

What is she talking about you kept her 'dangling'? You said "no". She's in denial.

I’m not happy asking as it happens.

so what? Your "happiness monitor" of HER happiness isn't working now. HER happiness or lack thereof is not your responsibility, never was, and it's simply irrelevant now.

You are still my husband for now. I have done nothing but hold you up emotionally,

WHAT?? Since when?

She's bad mouthed you to friends/family, she is leaving the marriage AND taking your only son...oh

and she tears you down ALL the time. Case in point is THIS LETTER...


look after our home, and have the majority of the responsibility for the kids and home for all that time. You brought home the bacon and it irks me that you have the power over that ultimately.
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Sooo, she resents you for not earning more, sooner, (her PAST complaints)

AND

She resents you for earning more now...b/c it gives her something to lose by leaving, and therefore empowers YOU...wth? Man, talk about not being able to win. You're in a lose lose sitch so you have to keep yourself as calm and happy and centered as possible. Do NOT react to her. Seriously.

Do NOT engage with her on idiotic stuff like this.

OR answer it once briefly, in writing. Later on when she harps again about the money you "didn't earn enough sooner" or "bring home the bacon NOW which irks" her...then refer her back to your written note, so YOU STAY ON MESSAGE...

that helps you detach and keep it together.


Power that I feel you have over me and what I can and can’t do for my future.

Using this reasoning, she'd resent you for earning a 11,000,000$ a year b/c then YOU would have SO MUCH MORE POWER than her and that's so unfair and she FEELS bad about herself and yada yada yada.

A lot of women feel financial pressure to stay with their h's in part for financial security. It's also a reason FOR being in love with or attracted to their h's. It's a value we have. H's who are good providers.

So have more balance in your life from this day forward and let that show.
Take some time WITH the boys and she'll know.

YOU do Not have to tell her any of it (which serves only to make your efforts look fake) THEY WILL TELL HER about the fun, b/c the boys want you to reconcile, and they love you.

I cannot ask friends to do this for lots of reasons despite a few offering because they now know I’m desperate. It’s not their responsibility, it’s yours.

what? I thought you were bringing home the bacon?? Now you have to stay at home with him too??

Find and go to a support group. (NOT WITH HER unless she's interested.But for you, for now)

A TV show here called "Parenthood" has a highly functioning autustic kid that was helpful for ME to watch due to my brother.

In that show they have support groups and turns out the show promotes actual real support groups and organizations. GET that care provider and you need to use them MORE.

For you, and maybe for you two...

Helping secure a home for me for one year is not too much to ask. I think I’m owed it and it would be the right thing to do to make sure Jacob and Alex have another home with me.

Not even going to address this^^^. SHE is NOT putting THEM or their interest ahead of hers...so enough on that.

I find you cold and heartless for saying no, I admit I really didn’t think you would say no because of the implications of that. Turns out I was wrong. However, the one thing this has taught me is that I’m right in my decision that we’re not right, that you haven’t got that emotional connection to me or my feelings and that I’m right to leave.

This^^^ is script! She says it to make you throw you a crumb and doubt ANY time you want to say no. She's manipulating you and I've seen this A LOT around here...trust us on that.

In fact, it's a lot like what Sandi2 predicted "Oh I WOULD have considered reconciling with you and ALMOST

came home but NOW I won't b/c you said no and blah blah blah whinnnnneeee



Things will change from here on in. If you’re in, I’m out and vice versa because right now I don’t want to be anywhere near you. Now you know how I feel.'

You know what she SAID she feels, at that moment in time. So fine.

BACK OFF RKY, for real. She needs the time/space to figure out her puzzle pieces and you cannot solve it for her. You cannot put the pieces in the puzzle for her. SHE must finish it herself.

She may be a WAW who never returns but I doubt it.

Why? B/C of your son. It's hard for her to date OM and even if she has one

the reality of having an OM in her son's life has not hit her yet.

NOR does the OM (IF IF IF there is one and I'm not saying there is)
know what having to care for a special needs autistic kid is like. If anyone won't "blend well" it's going to be your son.

Yeah well, IF she's got an OM, good luck on that r!




Now there is a lot of this that is BS (e.g. the videoscan was a story she told me from her previous marriage. I have never and would ever do anything like that and remember being shocked when she told me the story). I wont list the rest out. I know the rules re seeing and hearing.

SHE Says SHE threw it but I guess she's confusing you with her prior m?

Great...

The bits that have truth in I am already working on...which she comments on. I assume this is the trust bit. She thinks I am doing them to win her over?

I still think this is blackmail for the guarantor issue.

You are correct. And so I know for sure, does she have a job or not?

HOW WILL SHE PAY FOR ANY OF THIS? What does "benefits" housing mean? I fear it means the gov there (ie taxpayers) are paying her to divorce...wth?

If it's "benefits" or paid by taxpayers, why do they need a guarantor? Did she expect YOU to PAY for it for her? For a year? Won't a divorce mean you pay her something? Is it less than what she's asking?

If she gets a divorce do you have any idea about what that would cost you? Knowledge is power so don't be afraid to see a lawyer.

it's empowering AND you need the info anyhow so you can prepare financially so that YOU can offer her, or someone else, financial security.

Make sense?

And how do you know your son won't destroy some of the new place? I only ask b/c of my experience with my little brother who did NOT react well to changes in his routine...not well at all.

How do I respond? My feeling is that if I respond verbally, she will use it as an opportunity to try and pursuade me, then call me names when I don't agree and we are back to square 1.


meaning what? Don't assume everytime she's angry, means it's a backslide Or "back to square 1" b/c I think the stronger and calmer you are, the better.
Even when she disagrees. Your calm demeanor in contrast to her emotional outbursts will be noted by her. Let it be.


If I e-mail her back then she would think me 'not man enough to confront her..plus I would be playing her game. i.e. this is now her form of communication with me.

Do I even respond?

I say YES since she weirdly believes you are leaving her dangling.So, WRITE it out clearly and show her that you MIGHT have considered it BUT you cannot

b/c it's NOT affordable to either of you. what;s with getting a place nicer than what YOU have now? Who "promotes" themselves when they have TWO households to maintain? She's not being realistic. Did she really believe financial aspects would NOT be affected by her choices?

I feel like verbally responding, correcting her for the complete innacuracies (stuff that is made up or not our sitc)- there are limits to what BS I will take, but validating her emotions.

Yes its getting worse any advice?

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I think I already gave you advice on handling revisions of marital history.

Any "corrections" have to be So brief b/c otherwise they're ignored and dismissed. Trust me.

You can write 25 things down and have ONE be inaccurate and that is the ONE she'll repeat and focus on and tell others about.

As for what she says to others OR what you say

do NOT discuss this with others unless they ask..

the more who know, the harder it'll be for her to come back.

Keep the Road Home, Paved and Smooth. And the fact that your friends said they "knew it didn't sound like you" have said it all.

It is FAR MORE of a reflection on HER, for blaming you for all. Fact is when I hear a man tell me that his wife is "to blame" I immediately believe he's a jerk.

Same goes for WAWs who leave their h's and blame the lbsers...it's NEVER somethihng that makes them look good UNLESS folks already had a poor opinion of you. IF they do, you talking to them will not help you now.

You wrote about a month ago:

"She has told our mutual friends that it is all my fault, that she wants a strong man, that the last 13 years have been a mistaken and she has had enough".

When I hear this^^ type of talk by a WAS, both I and my siblings ALL assume they are justifying the break up of their family. Seriously, who believes it's ALL any ONE person's fault? And you do have an underlying stressor.

Maybe I'm overstressing the autistic son, but I don't thnk so. Whatever else happens, you both need to GAL and hiring a careprovider will help you with that.

Be the better man to those friends.

Show the changes by what you wear, and say, and how you hold your head up, and (dress in new clothes and get a new haircut or do something VISIBLY different)

IF THEY ASK WHAT YOU WANT OR THINK ABOUT A DIVORCE OR RECON---
you can say

"Oh I've loved her for a long time, so I'll always wish we could have worked it out. But I accept that I can't control what she does or says...But I'm getting to a good place now b/c I DID need to make some changes, and this has been a good catalyst for it"...

and THEN change the topic.

IF they ask about HER flaws or ask what SHE DID "WRONG", then you can say


"hey guys, she's the mother of my son so I'm not going to throw her under the bus. But obviously we've had issues. All I can do is work on MINE..."

That makes you look honorable, in contrast with her looking small minded...make sense? Give her something to live UP to.

And model this behavior for your son/step son. It really does make you look like a gentleman.

AND it undermines the negative images she's trying to create of you which only makes this an even stronger approach for you in the long run.

Good luck and I hope the length of this post is not a big turn off.

SORRY!