The crack in my perfect life...

[AnotherStander]

Your H is going monster. You've got to be really careful in your responses. Remember to validate his emotions, that's the best way to diffuse altercations. Maybe a more appropriate response would be this:

"H: Hey- FYI-I turned off Ds phone just now for 3 days for her disrespectful attitude"

"You sound angry and frustrated with her, I'm sorry you feel that way. She's angry and frustrated too, perhaps the two of you could talk on the phone about it. You know how sometimes a lot gets lost in the translation in texting, a phone call might work better."

You're not agreeing or disagreeing with his position and his cutting her phone off, you're just validating his emotions and suggesting a possible way for them to make amends with each other without you getting in the middle of it. You're also not taking sides.

[Sweetbriar]

Thank you all for your responses. Lisa- yes, the meds are for depression and anxiety...H has been on them since I have known him, but they were changed right before all this stuff happened (the affair, and him leaving) although I cannot blame meds for his decisions.

I do see now where my first reaction and sentence was passive aggressive. I think that could have been a bit more supportive, but still let him know I didnt agree with the phone being cut off. That is the way I communicate with my kids while they are staying after school and with friends...especially since Im running in 3 different directions some days. I should have maybe expressed that as my reason, although I did let him know that today. Of course, I am the villian in this situation according to him. I tried to be kind today and texted him that I want to be supportive of him in this situation and that its important to me that he and the girls have a good relationship and that maybe next time we can talk about the punishment before he imposes it.

H: "I turned her phone back on...I will NEVER forgive you for what you've helped create in my children! It sickens me.
Karmas going to jump up and get you for this...no doubt in my mind.

A few minutes later...

h: "you got your way...you're the hero, girls hate me...please leave me alone"

Funny, I wasnt even texting back much because I was in my baby appointment...but I just figured that meant, dont text back, which I didnt.

I agree very much that there needs to be some counseling in place for the girls and H. He has never really sat down with them and discussed the whole thing, as the only time they are together is fun times at dinner and movies, etc...
They both see counselors and maybe I will suggest that H comes to an appt or 2 so they can talk with him openly how they feel. He never gets to hear it, so of course, when they do lash out, he things Im behind it. I dont plan on suggesting it though until cooler heads have prevailed (if they do...)

Here are a couple more texts he sent me while I was at the doc...I wasnt responding so he kept texting...

h: I'll never forgive you for this
h: Im not as bad as youre making me out to be
h: youre using the fact that your pissed off about our relationsip to screw me with the kids
h: Our relationship and parenting are 2 different things (this I agree with)
h: You love this...think it says mountains about your character
h: you are demonstrating another example of the lengths youll go to get what you want, regardless of the expense...the root cause of why we are not together

I assume he means that I wanted her phone turned back on...so I will do anything for the girls to make me the hero...which is NOT true. They see with their own eyes what is going on...

Anyway, I must say that all this nonsense from the past couple days has helped me detach a bit more....for some reason, I just kinda let go a little bit more today because of his behavior. I wasnt perfect in this situation, but honestly, watching how he behave and how he name called my D and watching how he put all the blame back on me really made me see that he is FAR from the H I used to know and love. He would have NEVER treated me like this or acted like this. Beginning to wonder if this is a MLC too?? He seems to have tons of the signs...

I need to start reconsidering what and how I say things when we do have contact regarding the kids. Its so easy to become mama bear when he lashes out at them that I dont seem to say the right things either and now, here we are....angry at each other and the kids are angry at him and its just a mess....

I cannot imagine things between us ever getting better when these arguments continue to happen. It pushes him away even more and I see now more than ever that these type of things and arguments would have happened had I let him back in a month ago. Im sad for him, because he must be suffering and I hate for him to think that we all hate him...especially with his low self esteem, but I know that I cannot help him now or make anything better...

Will the real H ever show his "nice face" again? I just seems so impossible...he is totally convinced that we are all out to get him and make his life miserable...especially me. It hurts a lot.

And By the way...I must admit, the comments that Im not supposed to say (AND I DIDNT SAY THEM...) were the first to come to mind! The "this was your choice" and the "you could fix this by coming home and making things better"! Thank god I have learned that from DB and the board!

Thanks again for your continued help and support....

[Accuray]

Sweetbriar,

You're doing really well in the face of great adversity -- good for you for not getting sucked into that. H is reminding me of Alec Baldwin's episode with his daughter.

I think this is a nice sentiment for him to understand:

Im sad for him, because he must be suffering and I hate for him to think that we all hate him

You are right to not respond. At some point later, you could say something like:

"H, I'm sorry you're feeling badly and that you fear I'm trying to score points with our daughters at your expense -- I'm not, I'd like you to have a good relationship with them. I don't suppose there's anything I can say to make you believe that, so I'll have to accept how you feel. In any case, they are hurt and confused by our situation -- maybe it would help to talk to them about how they are feeling or attend one of their counseling sessions with them. I want things to get better between you and the girls. As you said, our relationship and our parenting are two different things."

No hurry to reach out to him obviously, let him cool off. I do feel that if he improves things with the girls it will make your life less stressful. It will help if you do not comment about H within earshot of the girls. Just tell them that their father loves them but is having a hard time right now and could use some compassion.

Accuray

[2chiquitos]

Hi Sweetbriar,
God I identified so much with your sitch because I was 8mos preg when I found out about the affair. I think back at my delivery and the days that followed and I just get depressed all over again.

I commend you on NC! This is something I am still struggling with and it's been over a year! I wish I had done it a lot sooner however I flip flopped a lot!

Stay focused on your journey. Stick to your boundaries. They are there to help you. I pray to God, help me take care of myself so I may take care of my children. It helped.

I wish you all the best. Take very good care of yourself. We are all here to help.

[Sweetbriar]

Acc...love the advice, yet once again:) I am planning on waiting a bit and if H brings up the favorite/hero stuff again, I will say things like what you have suggested. No contact with us ysterday after the "leave me alone" comment. He didnt contact kids also, which is to be expected if he thinks they hate him:( I do get my sonogram tomorrow to find out the gender and I am debating on texting him the exciting news. I feel I should at least tell him, but dont want to make a conversation about it. Maybe a quick text to say:

"We are having a baby boy/girl" and leave it at that...maybe add a smiley at the end so he doesnt feel like Im being snippy...advice on that?

My concern is tomorrow is Wed and that is usually his night to take the girls. Neither want to go this week, but luckily there is a school function for my youngest that would have prevented them from going regardless of this recent argument. Im just nervous to let him know they wont be coming because that would mean, in his mind, that Im keeping the kids from him because IM UPSET...when really its not the case at all. I actually feel like he should be spending more time with them...so they feel more involved with him and he them.

Like I mentioned in my other post, for some reason yesterday I just had this feeling of "whatever". I know that it wont last forever, as I have constant waves of emotions, but I felt for the first time since he left that I really dont NEED him here. I miss him and love him, but that I have to move along for myself and my girls and the feeling was nice. I am so used to thinking about how much my life will be sad without him that I havent given enough thought about how my life will BE OKAY without him. I have been so caught up in the fact that he wont be here for our new baby, and that he is probably with OW (although not confirmed) and that he doesnt care.

I have seen this past few days that H is really hurting and sad. I cannot imagine that someone who is happy go lucky with a great life can lash out and act like this. Although I know I cannot help him with his feelings now, I know from our past how sad he would get over things and I know this must be crushing him. A part of me gets a bit mad and knows he has chosen this path for himself and he has to walk the walk, but another part of me knows his deep depression and that things like this will effect him for some time. I cannot help but to care...but know I need to move on with myself because my kids are suffering:(

Vero- thanks for commenting! I am experiencing first hand how hard it is to be going through this while pregnant. My emotions wont quit and I keep imagining life with a newborn without H. He was the most attentive, active father since conception with both my daughters. So, going through this alone has been VERY DIFFICULT! I do have my girls, who are older (14,11) and my family and friends who have helped me stay excited...but its never the same. I anticipate the holidays, the birth, etc....I just dont know how this will play out. I can tell you that I went back and read a bit of your story and I CANNOT do what you did with letting H back to see the kids everyday like that. Too painful for me and my older girls to watch him leave everyday. Its already hard on them when he drops them off from having them one night a week. I can say that I worry about how he will see the baby on a regular basis...I just dont think that he will. He has comes to terms with this, I believe. He also knows that he will not be a part of the delivery either. This is to protect myself, not to be a vindictive Bi*ch...

Its hard to foresee years of these feelings...but honestly its already been 6 months since I found out about OW and 7 months since he met her. I cannot confirm they are still together, but I assume they are still at least talking. We have a court date to finalize our sep in Nov and my guess is that he is laying low until after the court date. He may even have move in plans with her..who knows...but that would jeopardize him seeing kids overnight.

I want to believe that he is with her and that is why he has not made any moves to R, but that may not be the case. He may just be done without her in the picture. Of course, my mind always races to how wonderful their time must be together and I "romanticize" their relationship in my head which makes it worse for me...so I have tried very hard to stop thinking about what he is doing. My only contact recently has been about the kids, although it has been arguing. I am not contacting him anymore as of now....going for the complete NC again....it was better for me.

I hate that I used to be such an upbeat, happy, clappy, person
and now my life has come to this. I must get back there before the holidays..if for anyone...my kids....

[AnotherStander]

h: "you got your way...you're the hero, girls hate me...please leave me alone"
h: I'll never forgive you for this
h: Im not as bad as youre making me out to be
h: youre using the fact that your pissed off about our relationsip to screw me with the kids
h: Our relationship and parenting are 2 different things (this I agree with)
h: You love this...think it says mountains about your character
h: you are demonstrating another example of the lengths youll go to get what you want, regardless of the expense...the root cause of why we are not together

Wow, this guy gives new meaning to the term "going monster"!! He wants so much to paint you as the bad guy, and when you don't take the bait it seems like he sits there stewing in his own juices and feels obliged to send 10 more nastygrams. Some of the comments like this one "Im not as bad as youre making me out to be" make me think that as some level he is feeling guilt over his actions, but he's letting his anger prevent him from seeing through the fog. I really feel for you, it's got to be tough to see a loved one act so nasty towards you!

[Accuray]

"We are having a baby boy/girl" and leave it at that...maybe add a smiley at the end so he doesnt feel like Im being snippy...advice on that?

This is a *real* dilemma and others may disagree, but my inclination would be to give him space and not reach out to him. He knows you'd like to reconcile, he knows you're pregnant, if he wants to discuss the baby he can reach out to you.

Reaching out to him this way is arguably pursuing (which is to be avoided) because saying "we are having" implies that you will be bound together. Although it's nitpicking, I would probably say "The baby will be a boy/girl!" if you're going to send a text, but as painful as it is, I would probably hold back.

Neither want to go this week, but luckily there is a school function for my youngest that would have prevented them from going regardless of this recent argument. Im just nervous to let him know they wont be coming because that would mean, in his mind, that Im keeping the kids from him because IM UPSET...when really its not the case at all. I actually feel like he should be spending more time with them...so they feel more involved with him and he them.

You definitely don't want to let this go until the last minute to disappoint him. This is an area where you *should* reach out because it involves his relationship with the girls. I would say something like:

"H, I know you like to take the girls on Wednesday nights. This week, D9 has a school function that D15 should attend. Would you like to take them to the school function? If not, would you like to take them on Thursday night instead?"

Give him a choice to do the school event or switch nights. If you give him a choice, he shouldn't perceive you as being manipulative.

for some reason yesterday I just had this feeling of "whatever". I know that it wont last forever, as I have constant waves of emotions, but I felt for the first time since he left that I really dont NEED him here. I miss him and love him, but that I have to move along for myself and my girls and the feeling was nice.

That's great! That's detachment, and is very healthy for you right now.

I have seen this past few days that H is really hurting and sad. I cannot imagine that someone who is happy go lucky with a great life can lash out and act like this.

Again, great! If you can see your WAS as operating from a place of fear and sadness, you will regard them differently and generally with more compassion. You'll feel sorry for them versus victimized by them.

He also knows that he will not be a part of the delivery either. This is to protect myself, not to be a vindictive Bi*ch...

It's important to explain this when you set boundaries, otherwise he may see it as vindictive. If he knows you're protecting your own emotions he will view it differently.

I want to believe that he is with her and that is why he has not made any moves to R, but that may not be the case. He may just be done without her in the picture. Of course, my mind always races to how wonderful their time must be together and I "romanticize" their relationship in my head which makes it worse for me...so I have tried very hard to stop thinking about what he is doing.

Don't torture yourself. In my sitch, W went on a quest to "fall in love" and it took her a couple years before she found someone who fit the bill. That ended because OM decided to reconcile with his wife and went "no contact". For months after that, however, she grieved the loss of that "in love" feeling and was particularly nasty to me, so OW doesn't still need to be involved to be causing problems for H. They can be mad at you because there's no one else to be mad at about how they feel.

When they decide to pursue other relationships, they are chasing a fantasy, and that takes a strong hold. Once they begin to move beyond it, they will grieve it and that also takes time. None of it really has to do with you.

In terms of romanticizing their relationship, most folks here will tell you that your imagination will make things much worse than they actually are. We tend to fill in missing details with the worst possible interpretation of events. W told me that she was tortured the whole time she was meeting with OM, it was hard to sleep, and she knew that what she was doing was wrong, but the feelings were so strong it was easier to rationalize her behavior than to face it. It's not a comfortable or easy way to live for either party -- PARTICULARLY IF YOU DON'T PLAY THE VILLAIN ROLE! When you don't act the bad guy, it makes it harder for them to rationalize what they are doing, and they'll get mad at you about that too.

I hate that I used to be such an upbeat, happy, clappy, person and now my life has come to this. I must get back there before the holidays..if for anyone...my kids....

You will. I like the imagery of being a clappy person, that made me smile.

Accuray

[Sweetbriar]

I feel like Im always on here posting and asking for advice..but about 15 mins ago I received these texts an I wanted to know how to respond. Im at a loss...really I am so sad...

I guess H texted D14 and said that when she was ready, that he wanted to talk to her and she responded negatively to him that she didnt want to talk or have a relationship right now. (she also went to counseling today and discussed this so...she got advice from her therapist as well) H responded to her that he would be waiting with open arms.

Here is what I then received all in a row...i have not responded

H: Not interested in talkin to you, not intersted in having a realationship with you...just got that from D! Thanks for undermining and marginalizing me as a parent...and creating an enviornment where my kids are so comfortable hating me!

H: Kids yearn for their fathers who are deadbeats, and here I am...as father who provides and LOVES them...and they throw me out like garbage and spit on me...you ruined my relationship with my children and you wont let me have one with my new child...you have RUINED MY LIFE!!

I wrote exactly what he wrote word for word. I NEVER said he couldnt have a relationship with his new baby...I just havent let him be part of the appts...

I just am saddened...he is so very sad and upset right now...and I cannot do anything about it. I cannot tell D what to say and write and I never have. The only thing I can think of is that this goes back to when this all first started back in April. He had told D14 behind my back that he was leaving me and told her not to tell me...she held that in for over a week and said she cried every night in her room over it...then forward to about 2 weeks later, she comes home from school and Im crying. She advised me she knew everything and told me what her dad had told her. I asked "do you know about the OW?" I have regretted that since the moment I said it, but it was in the moment and I was floored at the time that H had told her he was leaving and I had just found out hours prior about OW.

I think that because I was the ultimately the one who told her about OW, that I will always be the one to blame when they are mad at him. H doesnt think of all the other stuff that has been said and done and his constant lack of caring that has gone on for months...

UGGGG...anyway...can I get any advice on how to respond...or do I not respond at all?

Thanks...

[Accuray]

It's not your fault obviously.

He shouldn't have told your daughter he was leaving you
He shouldn't have cheated on you
He shouldn't have checked out without trying to work on the marriage
He shouldn't treat your daughters disrespectfully
He shouldn't treat you disrespectfully

My advice is not to dignify that rant with a response -- rise above.

If you must respond, say something like "I will not correspond with you if you are going to be disrespectful and lob accusations. I want our marriage to succeed, but I respect that you are not interested in that right now. If you want to have a calm and rational discussion about our daughters I will do so. If you are disrespectful, I will end the conversation. I'm sorry you are upset, it's not fair to take it out on me and I will not accept that."

Accuray

[AnotherStander]

UGGGG...anyway...can I get any advice on how to respond...or do I not respond at all?

I would reply back to him one time and say that you have done nothing to interfere with the R between H and D and that in fact you would like to see them have a loving R. But you can see now that that cannot happen on its own and you feel it is extremely important that H consult with an IC ASAP to determine a course of action. The IC may wish to talk to him first, then to D, then to both of them jointly. Tell him you will assist in whatever way you can to get D to the IC. But it's important to make it clear that this is strictly between him, D and an IC and that you are not trying to interfere or intervene and your involvement is just to support them in resolving this with professional help. If he decides to lash out at you again instead of listening to this suggestion then print all of his texts out and consult your IC to see if you need to get a restraining order.

Honestly your H is extremely hostile, and I'm concerned that he could even be dangerous. An IC is not subject to doctor/ patient privilege if they feel personal safety is at risk, so this would be a good time to get him to an IC in whatever way is possible to make sure he's not a danger to you and your family.