Thanks for so such stuff for me to think about - thing is I realize my part in all of it - it kills me and rips me apart trying to forgivr myself is hard
...
I think AJ touched on it, I just want to add in my own words:
Own what is yours in how you were in the M and how you might do things differently, now.
DO NOT own the MLC, if your H is MLC.
What comes out of their mouth MIGHT be true, in their minds. The take away here is, the MLC would have happened, no matter how you were in the M.
IOW, if you had been perfect, they would still see negative. They'd perhaps say that you were TOO perfect and they could not deal with that perfection and felt they had to live up to a standard they were unable to.
Again, learn from this... grow from this...
Just don't own what would have happened, no matter how you were in the past.
It's baffling to realize that our spouses are peculiar blends of who we knew. It's hard to recognize some of the particularly unkind things that they might have done are acts of the same person who might have been wonderful for us once. These things take a long time to come to terms with. And it's OK if it takes a long time.
Cognitive dissonance...
It affects the MLCer (WAS) in different, and exactly the same ways, as it affects the LBS...
We are wise to be weary of allowing the cognitive dissonance to go monster on our MLCer (as they, often to us), by rationalizing they are somehow bad people...
This... I think the LBS struggles with... and neither good nor bad... how ever we choose to deal with and resolve the dissonance...
Hmmm? Lots to think about after reading this thread. Everybody makes mistakes, no body's perfect, so why do we let our mistakes hurt so much? Why do we let it make us feel like an epic failure? We reconize their mistakes too and a lot of the times they are worse than our own. We still love them even with all their flours, we can forgive them, so why not ourselves too? Does it say more about us or them, that we still love them even with all their mistakes but yet they can fall out of love with us because of ours?
M: 29, H: 31 D: 9 S: 8 T: 13 Y M: 9 Y ILYBIDKIILWY 12/09/2012 ~~~~ Worrying does not empty tomorrow of its troubles. ~~~ it Emptys today of its strengths
From what I have witnessed with my H, it is not so much that they fall out of love with us, but that they fall out of love with themselves.
Oh they will say it is us, especially in the time following the bomb. But when you see that mask start to slip (as Cadet and Snodderly have described), you see a self-loathing that is quite hard to comprehend. I wouldn't have believed it, till I saw it with my own eyes.
How can they love anyone when they can't even love themselves?
It is never a bad thing to love unconditionally and be able to find forgiveness in your heart. We may be hurt, but we can still be whole. We are not the broken person that they are.
Bomb January 2012 - doesn't feel the same about me
~ "There is nothing love cannot face; there is no limit to its faith, hope, and endurance."
I think alot of our stuggles in forgivning ourselves, has everything to do with finding our own closure.
I know for me, what I really wanted was XH to tell me that he forgave me. That he knew he did things that weren't right, and that he was genuinely sorry for the pain he caused me.That he understood some of things I did were undertandable under the circumstances. I wanted XH to treat me just as I treated him.
I do know that giving apologies is crucial to any relationship. It helps us move on, forgive and work harder at problem solving. I think we have that expectation of our MLCers because we get to that point within ourselves, and give it back to them. We start to see the light and many things start clicking with us. We want to share that with them and then we do.
But alot of the time we dont get any validation nor reciprocation from them. It hurts. And it hits the " im not worthy button" within us, and then we begin our cycles all over again.
It's at that point we can wallow in disappointment because we had unrealistic expectations of an MLCer and let it ruin our days, weeks, and months, even years. Or look at it from the stand point that we've actually grown ( I can thank AJM for pointing this out to me!!) where the MLCer isn't in the same place as we are.
Has anyone been going to The Hero's Spouse site?
I still go there from time to time and have been combing through the archives today. I want to let everyone know that's new to this MLC insanity that as time goes by, and the trauma wears off, and decent detatchment comes to you, going back and re reading all the MLC info again gives you more insights and info than the first time around. At least it has for me. And I know it's because I was frantically searching for solutions to this problem, and tools I could learn to fix this mess.
At any rate, in light of the thread's theme being creating our own closure, can anyone give thoughts and idea's that we can do to help ourselves get to that point?
For me, it was the No Contact/ Minimal Contact that really got me to the objective side that I needed to be. It took a total of 6 months of very little contact for me to really grow.
I realized I really need to be apart from my X. Our living in the same house is shockingly hard on me. And it can't be easy on him, even if I do still buy his darn bananas.
So thanks for putting these thoughts out there, and thanks to all who write their feelings out so eloquently.
Aloha,
Wendy
Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32 D final 9/12 Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
Forward, I so totally relate to what you have written - and yes it is cognitive dissonance, but that is the point. it is dissonant.
What they have become isn't what they were or who they were and most important, how they behaved for years and years towards us - with love and kindness.
And Wendy - please stop buying him bananas. What need in you does this fulfil? You are divorced, remember, and that means he can buy his own ****** bananas It is the consequence of his decisions. A small one, but important.
I was reading the definition of it and found it a little complicated.
Can someone give examples of cognitive dissonance?
As I understand cognitive dissonance would refer to two (or more) conflicting sets of thoughts/emotions at the same time. An MLCer may simultaneously tell the LBS they want nothing to do with them/ don't love them/ have an other m/w yet continue to expect marital harmony or relations. It is how they "cake eat" and do not at all see their hypocrisy.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
