Riding the Bull

[afa75]

Wow...Arsene, maybe you're my on the other side of the world, along with our W's. . Saying that because of the obvious similarities in us cycling where we are with our W's, their OM's, etc.
I've been in the same bar as you emotionally.
I've had the same anger, backslide, and rebounds.
I've too mistaken niceness for progress.
At least we are trying to proactively learn about ourselves and from our mistakes (ill be borrowing some tips you've been given here).

Read what AnotherStander out on my thread in response to Validating vs Comforting.
Day in and day out we are tested. Day in and day out we have the chance to grow.

Hang in there mate.

[Arsene]

Thanks CB, Starsky, Denver, AT and Afa,

I know you are right and I'm coming to that realization slowly but surely. Thanks for being patient with a slow student. As I'm sure you know, we have to do this at our pace, as they do.

I agree with Chatter above. You need to remove yourself from your W's life. She needs to figure out if she misses having you. Not going to happen under the present circumstances.

You won't be able to do it this way for long either way Arsene. The anger that you expressed in the above post? It's only going to get worse. And who could blame you? Your W has an OM, yet she still clings to you in many ways... and you allow her to do so.

Yeah Denver. It's something that's taken me by surprise considering the recent development in my sitch. Lots to think about now. Thanks.

[25yearsmlc]

Arsene,

I have two competing thoughts and impressions. On one hand, I think there's value to what the guys are saying about how you are interpreting her decent behavior or niceness, as progress AND you are probably enabling her to not rely on OM for much. There is an upside to you being there for him instead of OM

but there's also a chance for OM to fail her, which you may be preventing.

OTOH

I also sense actual signs of confusion on her end. Like she IS second guessing her choices. Too many of her comments suggest serious reconsideration and it does not seem ALL like it's just her being nice to you. Is it progress or confusion?

Well, for a lot of us, seeing confusion in the WAS means something.

That's a good thing.

But you're right NOT to jump at that. Take it slow, stay detached as best you can. Let her make a clear choice to reconcile or at least to piece.

Let her make the move.

But don't "wait" for her. If she keeps on rambling with her regrets, and you wonder if she's sending out a signal, ASK her where she's going with it. Not b/c you are jumping at the chance for a recon, but b/c you're not clear (if you aren't).

Nothing wrong with telling her YOU are not sure what YOU want now, b/c things are different.

That's not punitive or a game. It's real b/c you said you don't know how you feel about her right now. That's just a result of this ordeal/journey.

Kudos to you for not forgetting your own work too. Keep it up.

[25yearsmlc]

ps

we lived in Texas for 7 years...riding the bull for 8 seconds is the goal.

You did a full minute?!!

Dang, You missed your calling!

[tori2012]

Arsene, I hope you can find comfort in the fact that all of us whose S's have had (or have) A's have gone through the same range or emotions. Do you remember when I said that the current sitch was working out for you at the moment? Reassess if it's still working out for you. If you have the same feeling for at least a week, then it's a true feeling (coming from your inner being) so then it's time to make changes to your goals/behavior. I felt like I could not be married to my H for about 6 mo after his A was over. I think it's bc he hadn't even said he was sorry, and was providing no comfort or transparency. I was a mess. Looking back, I should've listened to my inner voice. I guess whatever happened after still had a value, bc I grew a lot as a person. Remember, when you make a decision, the outcome might not necessarily be better or wose. It's just DIFFERENT.
Hang in there...

[roughenough]

I know you are right and I'm coming to that realization slowly but surely. Thanks for being patient with a slow student. As I'm sure you know, we have to do this at our pace, as they do.

^^^^ Do I know what you mean Arsene!!! Your preaching to the choir on this one, hang in there. I am learning this won’t kill us, we will be just fine.

[Arsene]

Arsene,

I have two competing thoughts and impressions. On one hand, I think there's value to what the guys are saying about how you are interpreting her decent behavior or niceness, as progress AND you are probably enabling her to not rely on OM for much. There is an upside to you being there for him instead of OM

but there's also a chance for OM to fail her, which you may be preventing.

OTOH

I also sense actual signs of confusion on her end. Like she IS second guessing her choices. Too many of her comments suggest serious reconsideration and it does not seem ALL like it's just her being nice to you. Is it progress or confusion?

Thanks 25. I guess that regardless of which way I look at it, my course of action remains the same. I'm going to go on with my plan of action for 90 days (75 left) and re-assess things then. What I will change is how available I am to her. I also think there is much value in what the guys are saying and I think the time has come for me to do this. Now, she has seen the man I am becoming and she will have a reason to miss me. This will also help me detach and hopefully stop being affected by her every move.

But you're right NOT to jump at that. Take it slow, stay detached as best you can. Let her make a clear choice to reconcile or at least to piece.

Let her make the move.

Yes. I think I can be cool-headed enough to do this. I do get excited inside when I see "progress" but I think that so far, I've been able to keep my "poker face" on when she's around.

But don't "wait" for her. If she keeps on rambling with her regrets, and you wonder if she's sending out a signal, ASK her where she's going with it. Not b/c you are jumping at the chance for a recon, but b/c you're not clear (if you aren't).

Nothing wrong with telling her YOU are not sure what YOU want now, b/c things are different.

That's not punitive or a game. It's real b/c you said you don't know how you feel about her right now. That's just a result of this ordeal/journey.

Yeah, I've thought about that but I think it's still too early for me to ask too much. She has mentioned that it was "just whingeing" when she thanked me for listening so that is what she wants me to make of it for now. I'll leave it at that. No matter what, I know that it's still going to be a long time before any real progress so I'm settling myself on the back of that bull and trying to make it as comfortable as possible.

Kudos to you for not forgetting your own work too. Keep it up.

Thanks to you and the fine folks around here for keeping me in line.

ps

we lived in Texas for 7 years...riding the bull for 8 seconds is the goal.

You did a full minute?!!

Dang, You missed your calling!

I don't think I could do this for a living but it sure beats DBing.

[Arsene]

Arsene, I hope you can find comfort in the fact that all of us whose S's have had (or have) A's have gone through the same range or emotions. Do you remember when I said that the current sitch was working out for you at the moment? Reassess if it's still working out for you. If you have the same feeling for at least a week, then it's a true feeling (coming from your inner being) so then it's time to make changes to your goals/behavior. I felt like I could not be married to my H for about 6 mo after his A was over. I think it's bc he hadn't even said he was sorry, and was providing no comfort or transparency. I was a mess. Looking back, I should've listened to my inner voice. I guess whatever happened after still had a value, bc I grew a lot as a person. Remember, when you make a decision, the outcome might not necessarily be better or wose. It's just DIFFERENT.
Hang in there...

Thanks Tori. I'm much better today. I had a few drinks last night with my mate (the only one who's on my side about this) I had a good cry and let off some steam and this morning I woke up feeling refreshed and ready to carry on.

In my heart, I know I still want to push on the way I've been but I will make myself less available to W and try my darnest to detach as much as I can.

I still think I'm on the right track.

[Arsene]

I know you are right and I'm coming to that realization slowly but surely. Thanks for being patient with a slow student. As I'm sure you know, we have to do this at our pace, as they do.

^^^^ Do I know what you mean Arsene!!! Your preaching to the choir on this one, hang in there. I am learning this won’t kill us, we will be just fine.

Yeah. I do feel like the dumb kid in class around here sometimes. The thing is, it's not that I don't get it, it's just that it doesn't fit with my belief at this time. I've got to come to this realization by myself, very much the same way that W has to come to her realization by herself. I can't be pushed into doing something which I think would be detrimental to my life here, and to what's left of my family. I have to tread carefully. Having said that, what the guys recommend is not necessarily against the way I want to handle things and distancing myself at this point seems to be what I need to do.

Thanks Rough, for being around.

[Arsene]

I feel a bit better now. I've fought it for as long as I could but I just had to ask my doctor of Anti Depressants. I was struggling too much lately. Too many ups ans downs. W was here today but I'd left before she got here.

Went to another Toastmasters meeting to get my mind off things and then set up a meeting to discuss the cafe I might manage. Things look good on that front. I need this. I hope it's going to help me boost my self-esteem and allow me to get control over my emotions.

I got back here after doing groceries. I was hoping to avoid W but she was still here. Very cold. I tried to be upbeat but I feel like I always come off as aloof when I'm not being open or available.

Nonetheless, we had very little interaction and I made an extra effort to be especially great with D8. Eventually, I left with her to go and get some take-away and W was gone when we came back.

D8 told me she doesn't like her school tonight. I was happy she chose to open up to me about it. She says the classes are ok but she doesn't really have any friends there anymore. Some of the kids got her friends to stop playing with her for some reasons. I don't know if it has anything to do with me and W being separated. I know that people can be very judgmental around here and I'm sure the word is out among the teachers and the parents.

D8 also told me she would like to go back to either the country where we lived last year or to my own country which we were visiting when I got BD. When I asked about mommy, D8 simply said that she's never around anyway and when she is all she does is play for 2 minutes and then she sleeps, eats and takes a shower. I guess W's boarding house doesn't have good beds and hot water. D8 asked me again why mom was doing that. I couldn't tell her the truth that W is seeing OM. That's for W to do. I simply said that same old story, that mom needs time to figure things out and that we need to be patient with her. I also told her that if she wants more answers, that she could ask her mom. I'm not sure that she will or that W would tell her anything anyway but it's her responsibility to do so IMO.

I told D8 that we'd go to the cinema tomorrow. She seemed happy about that so we'll have a good day just me and her.

I don't know how a woman, a mother, can become this way with her kid. It just doesn't make sense. I wonder if she even knows how D8 feels.