I feel detached from H's drama in many ways. Thinking way too much too, though. But mostly I feel good. And if I am deeply honest with myself, I know I still want to work things out and keep my H in my life.
I know that may not be the outcome and I know that he has to process and let go of his own pain and anger before that could happen. But I would prefer that outcome.
What would be a 180? Both of these are big 180s... and I don't know which makes the most sense now.
1. No contact-- out of his life. 2. Willingness to keep up friendly contact in context of D going forward.
Also been thinking about what OW could possibly give him at this point that he isn't getting from me (other than excuses for his behavior). H says he feels he has lost a lot...
SO, what is SO awful about our R right now (or so compelling about his alternative) that he is willing to give up all he feels he is giving up and suffer all this depression, just to be rid of me?
Why is holding on to all that pain from the past so much better? I suspect he thinks getting rid of me is getting rid of that anger and pain, instead of what it really is, which is holding on to it rather than me.
I know what she did give him at the start of the A: - validating his emotions (i.e., your wife is not giving you what you need and she never will, but I can) - feeling of being desired - listening to him - fresh start - fun But I have 180'd anything that was preventing me from giving those things. He's been getting that stuff from me a long while now...as much as he's been willing to receive it from me and that goes in spurts.
I have to comment I really think you've done a great job assessing where you are now. Especially as it pertains to the OW, I think you nailed it as to what they offer. Can it continue? The monotany of everyday life should wedge its way in, and likely if it was based on fun, it won't be fun much longer.
I also agree with the holding onto the pain and anger, and how the WAS thinks they are getting rid of it. Forgiveness by the WAS is a major factor. I can't think of anyway to accelerate this forgiveness other than being friendly and kind.
As for option 1 above, I've noticed and been trying to pay attention to some of the success stories and most of them have been with the LBS having some contact and being kind and gentle. I have yet to see a success story come from pitch black, unless I'm missing somthing. Although Kevinlost hasn't really told us how his stuff came back around?
Not to say you should inititate any other contact, but if you are prepared to move forward with that, the acting as if would be that you've accepted it and are moving on with your life. Ultimately it won't be acting as if, it will just be. Just thoughts. Are you prepared for that decision whatever the outcome? Really tough.
This is something I read on BWriter's thread yesterday, from Zoo. I was pondering it because I too was wondering what OW can give that I can't...
I know this has to do with why the WAS originally left, but I wonder if the momentum that they create keeps them running away from us. That, and thinking if they jettison the whole R, they'll somehow expunge the depression, anger, and fear.
Quote: B,
THis is something I can give you from a WAS's perspective, having once been one myself.
You feel as if you are drowning, everything just becomes too much. NOTHING matters but freedom, freedom from all the pressures that M life can produce. You feel as though you have tried EVERYTHING to reach your S, to get them to understand you, listen...to SEE you. You have yelled, screamed, remained silent and/or walked away. you feel as if you are pounding your head against a brick wall and getting sucked into an emotional vacuum. You feel victimised, punished, humiliated, angry, tired adn fed up. On top of all this is GUILT...becuase you KNOW someone is going to get hurt no matter what you do. If you stay YOU get hurt. If you leave the S gets hurt. It ends up coming down to a perception of survival and you reach a point where SELF is the most important thing.
Self-survival generates the flight mechanism...it is basic instinct and to be honest i think NO ONE undrstands it, especially not the WAS. For the WAS it just becomes an imperative, if they don't leave or get out of the sitch they will die, whether that be physically, emotionally or metaphorically.
Some WAS want to get "their own" back for perceived wrongs, some want to be amicable about it, some just want to get while the getting is good. For some all of these occur depending on the day and mmod they are in.
It really isn't for the LBS to understand or even try to really. THe WAS rarely does themselves. All the LBS can do is accept the REALITY of what is happening to the WAS (it is a reality for them) and wait for them to understand it on their own.
Thanks so for posting this, Azure. I missed this. And wow.
My H has described to me EXACTLY these feelings... this is definitely what he was going through when he left home and well after.
The thing is, now, he's talked about this A LOT with me. And we've discussed how assumptions played into that, how he wasn't communicating with me any of this (but felt like he was trying to), how my medical problems played a role, how my focus was on trying to deal with my work sitch because I felt everything else WAS GREAT, how I truly believed all my ILYs and acts of service were showing him my love, how he thought withdrawing and saying he was having work problems was sending me a message, how he was trying to deal with this feeling that I was better off without him--even wanted to be somewhere else (this still blows my mind, even now because it is the exact opposite of everything I felt).
We've talked about how he regrets it all, regrets leaving and not talking to me, how painful it was and we were both reacting to that instead of responding to each other, how we have made mistakes handling this (esp. before DB).
We've talked about how could I forgive him, how I do forgive him, how he thinks people would say 'how could she ever take him back', how much he has wanted to come home, how hard it is, how he doesn't want to hurt OW.
We've talked SO MUCH, really.
So THIS is where I am truly lost. I feel like we really came to deep understanding of where we are, how we got there, etc. We have spent time together really enjoying one another.
We've talked about how he is scared. How he doesn't want it to end up back where it has been or fall apart as other R attempts have done (i.e., him leaving).
Lovely post, Wonder. Not in the sense of your confusion and pain, but in the way it was written.
Aye, there's the rub, all right. I just don't know the answer. My H hasn't said any of those things to me that your H said, and yet I somehow feel like he could well be thinking them (granting I could be wrong), and that he's at a similar place. Sometimes this DBing feels like playing some enormous chess game where the stakes are high, and wondering about what your next move could possibly be, and how each move could affect their counter moves and our own subsequent moves. I'm trying to feel what my intuition says. Maybe the best route is returning to the detaching, but not going dark. Maybe they could only believe they could come back if they really believe we are not destroyed by their actions? Because otherwise the guilt is too overwhelming and clouds their thinking? Thus bringing you back to the idea that the best thing to do is to work on yourself, for yourself, and figure out a route to happiness that doesn't depend on them.
I just don't know. Sigh. It is really hard to stop analyzing. Did you read the Da Vinci Code? That sounds off-topic, but I feel like I am in the same maze of puzzles, each one leading to another, all relating to man and woman.
Quote: As for option 1 above, I've noticed and been trying to pay attention to some of the success stories and most of them have been with the LBS having some contact and being kind and gentle.
I see that too. I guess this is why I'm feeling confused. I've been doing that for the most part. I admit to a backslide here or there, but mostly pretty good I think.
I have, however, stated though all this that we could not be friends if we D'd. I do I feel I am a compassionate person and everything I know about OW (which is way too much unfortunately) literally makes me vomit-- I don't have the slightest shred of respect for the person that she is, and I don't know I'd be able to respect his decision to keep that in his life enough to be any kind of real friend.
So... how could I put that aside and actively be his friend? I'm not sure. Because I am really straight with my friends about that kind of stuff. And he hates it when he thinks I am treating him with "kid gloves".
Interestingly, all my silent calls have stopped since his 180...I was getting them several times a week, home and work, for six months.
I don't think H will contact me if I don't contact H first. That is his pattern for the most part... he then says "i didn't think you would want to hear from me."
Frankly I am very tempted to contact him today just because I am missing his voice, only I don't know what to say right now.
I have no idea who was making the calls to me, but it got to the point where I stopped answering my home phone because they were so frequent. They started last fall and picked up heavily around Jan. -- the time I was seeing more of H. Suddenly, they have stopped altogether. Two weeks without one.
I really do not know who it was, only that they didn't want to talk to me.
By "his 180", I meant H going from "no intention of giving me D papers" to giving me D papers.
I honestly have no idea if these 2 events are connected... I'd suspected OW, but it could very well just be a creepy coincidence.
(And in the interest of full disclosure, I should say I've called OW once or twice in the past, but I had something to say as ill advised as it was.)
The phone calls... you were seeing H more then. Did the calls come when he was there? Shortly after he left, or before he showed up? Or when you might have been going out?
My h used to call and hang up, even on my cell phone. Like I wouldn't know who it was?
Ow used to call where I worked on Friday afternoons if my H was out of town. She also used to drive by on a neighboring street to spy on us.
It could have been either of them calling.
When you can't make a decision because you are torn between your heart and your head, listen to the half with the brain.
