Now Separated, Am I doing the right things?

[roughenough]

Hey Eyesopen, I will stop by your thread in just a bit. Denver, I liked learning your love analogy, it makes sense. Regarding hope, I know what you were getting at. It really got me thinking about what hope means. To be honest, it’s a word I haven’t put much thought into until recently. One of your recent posts on my thread is a true testament of the power of hope. I am quickly learning that you don’t mess with a man’s hope!!! BTW, I am not sure if your aware of it but there's a song by Shaggy and it's called Hope. It's always been one of my favorite songs, just a bit ironic.

[Arsene]

Great stuff here mate.

By this I meant, you are getting great advice.

[roughenough]

No question about it buddy.

[roughenough]

I gotta decompress after today. Glad I am not on this coaster alone cause it's a b!tch.

[roughenough]

To top things off, my fb account sent out 100 plus friend requests today, I have no clue how or why but I dont really give a rats. Kind of suck!s because it sent one to my boss and he accepted it. He's a cool guy and all but I am not very pc on fb and I cant defriend him now. Well, I could but I dont think that would be a good idea, oh well.

[someguy1233]

To top things off, my fb account sent out 100 plus friend requests today, I have no clue how or why but I dont really give a rats. Kind of suck!s because it sent one to my boss and he accepted it. He's a cool guy and all but I am not very pc on fb and I cant defriend him now. Well, I could but I dont think that would be a good idea, oh well.

You can setup different privacy levels. Make it so that you're still friends with your boss, but he can't see anything you post on your wall.

[25yearsmlc]

Rough,

You're changing with the wind or whatever mood strikes you, so it's no wonder your w's reactions to you are not consistent.

Here are a few of your quotes and THEN we can get to just this one post (b/c I lack the time to dissect how off putting some of your posts are. Not all, but many)...

Here you go. You said:
I am doing my best to take the focus off W. Things are back to the “somewhat businesslike” routine. For now, it might be for the best.

THEN You said:

I had one or two conversations with W within the last week. It was the first time in almost 5 months. It was time to take the temperature, so to speak. By doing so I might have given the impression I am “on the shelf.” I don’t regret having the dialog with her. I believe it sent her running a bit.

I don't know what that^^^ last part means...

but THEN THESE OTHER POSTS BELOW


I do feel like I am in a hellish place right now. Ive been going through this stage where I really miss my W, more then usual. I will work through it though, someway, somehow---
-----
I used to receive brief texts and emails from W and those have stopped. Enough of this for now because there’s no need to have the focus on W. It’s just something I’ve noticed, that’s all.
------

I'am becoming as nervous as a hooker in church when replying to W’s texts, especially after AT’s recent posts.


Rough, look at this^^^!!! Your words & thoughts and feelings are all over the place. Whatever she says or does NOT say, or does not text...OMG learn to detach...each emotion passes by, you grip it and hold onto it til the next one stops by. Know this-----
Where the head goes, the heart will follow.

Which means you have to Start thinking straight.

You're obsessing, you sound so pre-occupied I cannot imagine how you are concentrating at work or with the children...are you "there" for them? IS it really fair for you to keep going this way and Not get any help?

Please, settle down. Remember another quote of YOURS here...


I need to remember that life's to short and we can't predict the future. I need to make the most of what I've got, easier said than done sometimes.
----

Well said! THAT^^^^ Is your mantra!...Make it yours - b/c the words are!

Hey Arsene, I am not a d!ck but that's a lot more courtesy then I would offer up. ---

No offense Rough, but Arsene's basic courtesy is just that: ie., basic.

Your inability to muster up a greeting is immature and unattractive.
Worse, If you say something nasty, that makes you sound like what you just denied being (i.e., a "dick").

Even when you're furious, be civil. Period. It's called having no regrets later b/c you behaved like a real man does, when he's dealt a blow.

No tantrums or stomping feet or yelling or cursing or Not being able to look in the eyes of the mother of your children.

I hope you'll take this feedback knowing it's meant to help you. Being civil is always called for, being warm is nearly always a good idea,

(though a few exceptions in DB land might apply as to how "warm"). A lack of civility, or rudeness and vulgarity are Not an approach that will win anyone over, ever.

Oh, And it's a lousy thing to model for your kids.


I just found out a couple things. So my W’s sister was watching my son earlier today, it was because of a birthday party he attended. I've only seen W’s sister once since our separation, she and I have always got a long really well, she wants us to work things out, she doesn’t like what my W is doing.

How do you know this? And are you speaking to the sister about it? Read the Rules again...it's NOT a good idea. You can find inner solace knowing you have allies but you cannot DO anything about it. Backfires so many times.

She’s very close to my W, heck there sisters.


and they will always be sisters. You won't "win" if you ask her to choose so, keep to yourself. Get support from people who are NOT related to your w b/c if she hears from them, that you've given "your side" of things, she'll tell HER SIDE and you won't manage as well after that.

The more folks who hear "the sides" the harder it is to reconcile. Are you Keeping the Road Home, Paved & Smooth, or what?

Her side does not even have to be true either...
---. Anyway, W's sister and my mom have always got along well. I guess they ended up chatting for over an hour today. I received some interesting third party intel, which I feel is accurate.

Supposedly W hasn’t been talking to her parents, this is rare. My guy tells me her parents don’t agree with her choices either. They’ve been married for over 35 years.

This^^^ is a waste of your time, thoughts, brain cell activities, etc. Talk to the source or your communication problems will keep repeating themselves and you'll be STUCK forever... This "conflict avoidant - going around the source" and never being honest/open WITH the person involved, is a big issue of yours. Work on it.


It sounds like the brief conversation I had with W a week or so ago had an impact on her. It was the talk we had about me still loving her, I am married and behaving as such, etc…..Anyway, W had no idea where I stood, she thought I had moved on. I guess W called her sister and was crying a lot.


Gee, maybe showing some courtesy (Like Arsene) would have helped?

What did you Learn from this experience?

You won't get endless chances to right the ship.

Though it's possible your w isn't telling the truth, we can cross that bridge if & when we get to it.



Oh, I bet you’ve never heard this one before, W feels I havent been fighting for her. Ha, whatever, we don’t need to hash this one out again, if you know what I mean.


Rough, that ^^^ paragraph of yours is confusing as hell. First, I assume you're being sarcastic when you say you bet we "have not heard this one before", b/c we have heard it. Not sure if you believe it's rare, so I had to mention that it's not rare in case you thought it was. Regardless...

Then you say you heard someone say that your wife does Not feel you've fought for her. I don't know what went into that comment but it would give most men pause, but to that, YOU say "Ha, whatever...we don't need to hash this out again, if you know what I mean."

No, I don't know what you mean.

You sound dismissive, a bit smug and cynical. Maybe you are trying to say she's lying or is insincere or crazy. IF SO, just say that so it's clear.

I can't help but wonder if you are this unclear with the way you express yourself with her. Granted, these communications are all in written form, but many people write more "calmly" and more clearly than when they speak.

Just some food for thought. Be clear when you speak and do not assume or insinuate in these situations. Misunderstandings are the last thing you need now.

At the end of the day, I dont know if this means much. I could be wrong but even though these are intersting pieces of information, W is going to do what she wants.

^^^another oblique comment.

Yes your w is going to do what she wants. And you? Here's my real question for you...

Do you think your actions or behavior matter at all in this situation AND OR possibly helped get you here?

If you don't think your behavior matters at all, then why post here? Just wait and see what happens in your life b/c someone else is in charge...

BUT IF YOU DO think it matters, then focus on what YOU are going to do DIFFERENTLY...and or figure out what YOU want.

You're as confused sounding as she is, to me.

Good luck.

[25yearsmlc]

Rough... Let's pump the brakes here a little bit.

Breathe.

"I love my W but I don't want to stand in the way of her happiness."

^^^That is great. It truly is. I told my W those EXACT words during our conversation. I believe it's one of the most powerful things you can say to her, and it accomplishes a few things.. It shows that your love for her is unconditional... that you're willing to let her go find her own happiness... and that you know you can't change her mind.

As for her email:

While it doesn't sound like she's trying to meet up with you to start trying to reconcile, it also shows a LOT of things you can be hopeful about.

Clearly, she's not resolute in her decisions. If she was, there would be no need to keep delaying this conversation. She'd already be "Ready".

The whole "I want you to prepare, because I'm not sure we're on the same page" thing? That's an easy one. I'M 100% sure you guys aren't on the same page! She's a WAW! And you're fighting for the M that she walked away from. There's no new information for you there.

But, she clearly cares here. The whole "I don't want to hurt you. I want the hurting to end" stuff proves there is still SOME emotional investment in the R. Maybe not as much as you would like (actually, definitely not as much as you would like) but the fire hasn't extinguished yet.

In other words, you can't lose hope.

Also, if the confusion that she's conveying isn't clear enough, when you dissect the email a little further, it becomes even more compound... She starts off saying she doesn't want to talk until she's had a chance to chat with her IC... Then the next sentence says "We could talk today over lunch if YOU'D LIKE" and a couple sentences later, she says she's just not ready to talk.

As hard as it is to understand, the confusion is a good sign... or at least it's not a bad sign.

I can't sugar coat this and say that the email conveys a very positive message or that the conversation she's looking to have isn't going to sting... because the odds are it will.

But you've got a lot of things on your side here... Time is the greatest of them... but there's also hope to be read between the lines of her email. And I'd be willing to bet there will at least be a few glimmers of hope that come out in the conversation.

I agree with most of what AT just said. I'm not sure that I see the 'hope' that he's talking about. I wasn't looking for it. Any interpretation that you make is mind reading.

I do agree that you need to take a deep breath and relax. Nothing is happening right this moment that is going to kill you or that is irreversible. Nothing has changed. You merely have more information.

You should respond telling her that you understand and that she should take as much time as she needs.

"W, I completely understand. Please don't feel like you have to rush into anything. Take your time and we will talk when you are ready. I love you, you are my wife, and the mother of my children... but above all else, you are my friend. So go put our conversation on the back burner for now and try to have a great day. Rough"

Good stuff^^^^ . I still see some hope b/c she's not resolute in her decision and I FEEL

as a woman, if I were sure I wanted out and was mainly going to figure out logistics and holidays, I'd make sure to convey my certainty that the marriage was over and that we were just going to be dealing with details.

I would not be so oblique about it. If I were SURE we were done, I'd say so.

But the thing that strikes me most in this situation Rough, is that you and your wife communicate very poorly with each other. This letter is a great example of that as are some of your posts.

Not sure about the other relationships you guys have in your lives, but you specifically imply or insinuate things that are not obvious AND that you could simply state. Makes me think you fear stating your opinion or feelings. WHy hide them so much? You leave a lot unsaid as if it's understood. It's not.

Her note is confusing and vague and to me, you both need to speak with much more clarity. Just a few suggestions so I can say i'm being specific...

Speak or write in shorter sentences if you like. Do NOT qualify everything with "somewhat", "sometimes" or "Sort of".

Make declarative statements, e.g., If you love your w, TELL HER that and mean it.

With this upcoming talk, whenever it is,

be strong, be clear (admit if you have mixed feelings) and be POLITE,

Know that you'll get through whatever is coming b/c you are strong AND b/c you are not alone.

[Carnac]

Rough: 25 has given you some awesome advice and some things to think about but I want to add two more that everyone here knows, but I think sometimes we lose our way a bit....I know I have on this journey.

#1 Whenever anyone joins this place Cadet always welcomes them and it almost always includes the line about your spouse has given you a gift.....a gift of time...use it.

#2 I know how hard it is not to worry about things....but you simply can't worry about what her conversation is going to be about....trust me its much easier said than done and again im probably not the greatest example b/c if my wife said the exact same thing to me I would probably mind read and think that she needed to see her IC to....for lack of a better word...prop her up to tell me she wanted a D. But I will give you a piece of advice to hopefully make things a bit easier while you wait on this conversation about which you know very little......whatever you are doing right now, this conversation shouldnt change anything. Good or bad, the goal here is to be doing things in YOUR life so that whatever this conversation is it doesn't matter.....and to me the reason it doesn't matter is b/c even if she says I want a D, does that really change anything. My belief all along in my sitch is even if she files I intend to love her through it and if it goes all the way you really still have the option of loving her as long as you want...assuming its not unhealthy....take back that much control for yourself....that at the very least YOU get to decide when YOUR done no matter what she says.

So often control is considered a bad thing....but as long as you understand that the only thing you control is yourself I think control is a great thing. The only other advice I would offer is to quite REACTING and start RESPONDING......it may sound like semantics to some, but just like Denver told me months ago things for him started to change when he could honestly say he was going to be OK either way. From my current sitch....it seems to be that mine is following a similar path.....once I realized my worth...once i realized that i'd be ok either way eventually even though i would miss my wife....once i quit reacting to her and started to simply respond to her.....apparently it showed up in something I was doing because she has slowly started reaching out if only slightly and having conversations with me that are more than simple child logistics. Some would say that they can just 'tell' im more likely to believe that after some time of consistency they simply see that the interactions are different, but it takes time and consistent actions....you have to have both.

Finally and i've honestly lived on this truth for a couple of months now.....my father in law was the one who told me about 3 months ago that she was going to file after my election which was in mid September....it still hasnt happened...at least not as of this morning...it could happen today or it could never happen, but here's my point and its one I meant to make above when I was talking about whatever she has to say in this conversation doesn't change anything for YOU. IF this conversation is about D that means that it is her belief and reality today that she wants nothing more to do with you. But I had a friends wife who had been through similar things tell me that at times she would wake up and KNOW for sure that she wanted a divorce....and might wake up the next day and think she wanted to work it out. So if thats what the convo is about....believe her, she really does want that....but that doesn't mean thats what she wants permanently, it simply means its where she is now...people change their mind. By way of example look at Denver....who I would hold up as a great stander for marriage....but at one point HE wanted a divorce. He stood for a long time, then changed his mind, then changed it again....it happens so just know that.

[Arsene]

Hey mate,

As Carnac said, 25 is on your case and that is good. Listen to her, no matter how much it hurts sometimes. It's forced me to get through a lot of the macho sh1t we grew up with and believe is a part of being a man.

Bottom line here, this is the woman you love and even if at times you can't see it, or forget it or even stop believing it for a bit, your being here tells us that much. From that perspective, any negative thoughts or judgement we have about them should be questioned. With every word or thought I have I ask myself if this is done out of love. Not an easy task but it is helping me towards something I want to reach almost as much as Reconciliation, that is forgiveness.

Carnac himself is making excellent points and this here below, is solid gold IMO.

But I will give you a piece of advice to hopefully make things a bit easier while you wait on this conversation about which you know very little......whatever you are doing right now, this conversation shouldnt change anything. Good or bad, the goal here is to be doing things in YOUR life so that whatever this conversation is it doesn't matter.....and to me the reason it doesn't matter is b/c even if she says I want a D, does that really change anything. My belief all along in my sitch is even if she files I intend to love her through it and if it goes all the way you really still have the option of loving her as long as you want...assuming its not unhealthy....take back that much control for yourself....that at the very least YOU get to decide when YOUR done no matter what she says.

Take care of yourself mate.