What should I do? Which technique to use?

[jzoom]

She's pushing me right back towards saying no to everything. That if she's not willing to say "yes, I want to work on this" then I'm not providing anything.

[MrBond]

I wouldn't tell it to her in the form of an ultimatum. More along the lines of "look, I understand you're unsure. But I need some kind of understanding too or else it just seems like you're using me".

[AnotherStander]

I'm getting more and more confused...if I assert myself then she's walking out the door and if I don't I'm being taken advantage of...

From my previous post:

"Alpha is all about being confident, assertive, bold and being a leader."

What about that kind of behavior would drive her out the door? Remember, we're not talking about crazy yelling/ screaming/ "get out of my house" behavior which is NOT alpha. We're talking about quiet confidence, strength, leadership.

So I'm trying to take a cue from 5LL that I need to fill up her love tank.

What is her primary LL? What are you doing to meet that? Are you also filling her tank through the other languages? You need to be more specific in setting up your action plan rather than just saying "I need to fill up her love tank."

I don't understand the loan. She's in your house and you're paying all the bills and she doesn't contribute anything. What bills does she need a loan for? If it's something personal- medical bills, old loans, etc. I would not give her a loan. You've expressed that you're already in financial trouble, why would you loan much-needed money to her for stuff that has nothing to do with you? You've got to quit doing these favors for her, you and I both know you're doing it because you have expectations that it will make your R better. It won't.

[jzoom]

Thanks guys, I'm processing this info. This is something from that alpha site but I find it interesting and I'm thinking about it a lot here. http://marriedmansexlife.com/2012/10/fitness-testing-vs-loyalty-testing/

Before I go too far one way or the other I wonder if I've laid on that bad alpha and bad beta from the get go...I didn't have good alpha with being confident and such and so I've been loyalty tested and continue to be loyalty tested...thoughts?

[jzoom]

Haven't given an ultimatum.

From my previous post:

"Alpha is all about being confident, assertive, bold and being a leader."

What about that kind of behavior would drive her out the door? Remember, we're not talking about crazy yelling/ screaming/ "get out of my house" behavior which is NOT alpha. We're talking about quiet confidence, strength, leadership.

I stopped yelling a couple weeks ago. I had let anger take over and it's something I had struggled with in the past, so I've been using my anger management techniques to avoid that. Avoiding any "get out of my house" actions too since the blowup Thur. The reason I say that confident, assertive, bold, leader type behavior will push her out the door is b/c for the most part, that behavior revolves around saying "no" to spending money at the moment.


I'm really struggling to figure out her primary LL. Right now, I'd rank the 5 as: acts of service, words of affirmation, gifts, quality time, touch.

I agreed to a loan with intention of being paid back, and yes, it's for old personal stuff. I wrote out a couple checks for her Tue night and in the memo area I put loan, she freaked. She first snapped at me saying she doesn't want anything from me and I said that she's the one asking everything of me. She then got emotional, just about crying, asking how if I care about her can I embarress her so much. This looked just like what somebody on that other forum called a loyalty test: agression followed by emotion. She gave me "acts of service" examples that she is looking farvorably upon but a-hole stuff like with embarrising her with the check memo pushes her away b/c it doesn't show her that I care, that the way she perceives it I'm still just putting her down and looking to get laid.

She said that she's not looking to screw me over or use me and that she is trying. She's been with me each night and talking to me more like we used to. So all of a sudden it clicked with me...

I've seen some behavioral changes, she's been making the kids clean up after themselves and she isn't "expecting" of me, she asking. Now, granted, I don't know how much of that is just fear driven...

But then I also realized that she has been home each night even if we are sleeping in separate rooms. Even if I didn't let her use the car, her friends/family would give her rides if she asked, so if she had someplace to go or stay overnight she'd be able to, and she's stubborn enought to walk if she wanted to go badly enough. She has been having conversations with me, just talking about our days and laughing and joking around. It's much closer to how we were when we first got together.

So Tue night I realized that I had been overlooking the baby steps. Her and the kids being more respectful of the house, spending time with me and talking with me...and there has been some non-sexual/non-romantic contact between us without her having a problem with it...have all been part of the "first signs" I outlined in my goals posts ago. She said she's watching me for the next week or two to see if this R is worth working on. So it seems she's just not emotionally ready to commit after the extreme I went to. It seems like she's kind of doing DB without realizing it; she's looking at a two week timeframe to see if there are changes and she's making the changes she's capable of making right now.

Also, she told me Tue morning in Wal-Mart that she had applied for jobs "anywhere and everywhere" and she was re-applying for food stamps/medical cards. So even there, she's making an effort to contribute.


Last night, I get done at 6pm instead of my usual really late night work. I get home and she's finishing up dinner, her and the kids have eaten but she was making dinner for me too. Kids are playing and other than the two older not paying much attention to the baby which she keeps on them about, nothing really negative going on. She tells me what food is ready for me and sits to feed the baby and I tell her that I can feed the baby while she cooks, I can wait to eat. I'm trying to show her that I do care about her and the kids but I said it in a calm alpha way that she can relax a little and just finish cooking. She says she wants me to eat and that she can feed the baby b/c it's just chicken in the pan with nothing to do with it for awhile.

I eat and all is going well. She's been saying how she has homework to do so when I'm done eating I just start helping with kitchen clean-up. I see this as a nice balance b/c she cooked for me and does have something important to do, so "acts of service" I just help with cleanup. Also, when she gets started on her homework and the kids are bothering her she keeps telling them to leave her alone, so after a couple of times I step in and get involved with the kids some to try and keep them occupied.

Once it's time for them to shower and get to bed I keep on them to get the shower done b/c they're playing around. I also make sure that they clean up the mess of candy wrappers and dirty dishes they left around the computer and the popcorn they left on the floor. She wasn't thrilled b/c they wouldn't quietly just do it, I had to keep repeating myself and stand over them and they were loud but the alpha in me stayed calm and made sure they did it; I wasn't allowing that same old behavior to return where the kids leave a mess, she doesn't clean it up, and I quitely beta go pick it up myself.

I have to step in again with the kids about bedtime b/c they're fooling around with the lights on rather than getting to sleep. With that, I'm taking care of the baby while she works on her homework. TV is on and she's talking to me some about class and homework as she does it. To me, it was another good night and many factors going in the right direction.

[MrBond]

She used her emotions to lure you back in. You should have told her when she cried, that you understand how she felt, but she was the one who called it a loan, so you needed to write it down for your own records. That this had nothing to do with trust, and that if trust was an issue for her, then she had to start investing more into the R like going to counseling.

You can't keep dancing to her tune. She has to start doing what YOU want to do.

[MrBond]

She used her emotions to lure you back in. You should have told her when she cried, that you understand how she felt, but she was the one who called it a loan, so you needed to write it down for your own records. That this had nothing to do with trust, and that if trust was an issue for her, then she had to start investing more into the R like going to counseling.

You can't keep dancing to her tune. She has to start doing what YOU want to do.

[DaddyLongShanks]

I'm getting more and more confused...if I assert myself then she's walking out the door and if I don't I'm being taken advantage of...

From my previous post:

"Alpha is all about being confident, assertive, bold and being a leader."

What about that kind of behavior would drive her out the door? Remember, we're not talking about crazy yelling/ screaming/ "get out of my house" behavior which is NOT alpha. We're talking about quiet confidence, strength, leadership.

So I'm trying to take a cue from 5LL that I need to fill up her love tank.

What is her primary LL? What are you doing to meet that? Are you also filling her tank through the other languages? You need to be more specific in setting up your action plan rather than just saying "I need to fill up her love tank."

I don't understand the loan. She's in your house and you're paying all the bills and she doesn't contribute anything. What bills does she need a loan for? If it's something personal- medical bills, old loans, etc. I would not give her a loan. You've expressed that you're already in financial trouble, why would you loan much-needed money to her for stuff that has nothing to do with you? You've got to quit doing these favors for her, you and I both know you're doing it because you have expectations that it will make your R better. It won't.

What if you found that she didn't like a man or anyone else who is her friend to always feel like or appear that they are "ahead", "incharge", etc? It is different strokes for different folks and it can change.

[AnotherStander]

Avoiding any "get out of my house" actions too since the blowup Thur. The reason I say that confident, assertive, bold, leader type behavior will push her out the door is b/c for the most part, that behavior revolves around saying "no" to spending money at the moment.

I think you said you're having financial problems, so I think learning to say "no" would be advisable. The worst that could happen is that she would leave, but you tried to kick her out anyway.

I'm really struggling to figure out her primary LL. Right now, I'd rank the 5 as: acts of service, words of affirmation, gifts, quality time, touch.

Get her to take the quiz. Women love quizzes, my W did it even though we were on the verge of S.

I wrote out a couple checks for her Tue night and in the memo area I put loan, she freaked.

Here's the proper alpha response- remove the check from her hand, tear it up and throw it away. No need to argue about it, just let your actions speak. The loan is for her, you receive no benefit from it at all, don't allow her to browbeat you because you wrote a word on the memo line.

She then got emotional, just about crying, asking how if I care about her can I embarress her so much.

She's manipulating you big time. What is embarrassing about a memo on a check? Who is going to see it other than a bank teller, and does she think they give a darn? The real issue here seems to be that she didn't want any written evidence that it was a loan because she knows it can be used against her in court to get the money back. Seems like she has an ulterior motive here.

[jzoom]

Perhaps she did just lure me back in. She has been making efforts though. Being more respectful of the house, spending more time with me, talking with me, so there are improvements in some of the areas I've asked for.