Yeah Rough, but remember she's going to be JUST as nervous and on edge as you are (most likely)... So she absolutely could clam up or just start asking open ended questions...
But you are already well prepared... You've got your validating hat on, you're ready with your "I need some time to think about that" response to things you're unsure of... and you've got a boatload of other lessons you've learned in the back of your head.
VERY helpful posts AT, thanks for being here for me buddy. Good point, here’s my take on ^^^^^^Please let me know what you think? If it's a tough open ended question I don't want to use the "I will get back to you" line to much. BTW, this is just an example.
W says “So Rough, how are you feeling about us? What do you want to do?”
"That’s a really good question W. I’ve put a lot of thought into this however you told me you wanted to talk, what are some of the things you wanted to talk about?"
I shouldn't be to evasive or passive aggressive but I think it flows well. One other point, I am NOT very good at memorizing long answers, I don’t do well with that. If it’s a short one liner, yeah, no problems.
W says “So Rough, how are you feeling about us? What do you want to do?”
If she asks you that? I think that you need to answer immediately and unequivocally. You love your W, right? You want to be married to her, right? You're willing to work fixing the marriage aren't you? You've worked towards that up to this point, right?
Why would you want to hide the ball with any of that??
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I haven’t had a drink in a week. It’s been somewhat easy to do. It’s good for me to refrain from the beer every now and then.
This is so true! I used to drink myself silly and smoke 1.5 packs per day whenever things got rough... I've found that staying away from the booze helps maintain a more level head. It also leads to better sleep which helps the next day!
I couldn't agree more SG. I am somewhat of an anomaly when it comes to drinking. If I am feeling healthy and good then I might drink. If I am feeling down and don’t think I am in a good place, I actually lay off the beers.
Here's my take, and it's a very personal one to me, so I'm not sure how much it will help you.
I'm also VERY bad at memorizing long answers... As a matter of fact, I find that I do MUCH WORSE if I try to memorize something... It sounds too rehearsed when it comes out of my mouth. PLUS, if I'm focused on an exact phrasing of something and I stumble, it all falls apart.
I rehearse the IDEAS, not the script, in my head. The CONCEPTS and the EMOTIONS behind them.
I went over the discussion that I was going to have with my W (Setting boundaries about OM) about a thousand times in my head, but when it came out of my mouth, it wasn't the one I'd been rehearsing.
Instead, it was a better one... It was more organic to the conversation thus far, to the emotions that were on display on both of our parts, and in the cadence of what had been happening.
By rehearsing, I was able to feel confident that I had my "Talking Points" down... those few words or phrases or ideas that I knew I HAD to convey... the rest of it came naturally and was better than anything I could have written beforehand, because I was living in THAT moment.
Sure, as always, looking back I wish I would have said X instead of Y, or refrained from saying Z... but I knew it wouldn't be perfect. Considering the weight of the conversation, I'm still very proud of what I was able to accomplish.
So, to answer your question about the "That's a really good question W..." talk:
Personally, when my W asked me a few open ended questions, I responded differently to each of them... As you said, you can't use the "Let me get back to you" line TOO MUCH, because it'll probably seem disingenuous.
So when my W asked "So what are your plans for the future" I simply stalled for a few seconds by asking for clarification. "What do you mean W? Like what am I doing this weekend?" (I always try to throw some humor into my interactions with W, as it eases the tension and throws the balance back in my favor)... She clarified that she wanted to know what I was going to do as far as living situations, work, writing etc... In the time that she took to clarify, I was able to formulate my response "You know W, I've been thinking about that a ton actually... And I'm definitely leaning towards a few things, but haven't 100% decided. Actually, I've put off a few of those decisions until after we were able to have this talk, so I had more clarity on the situation."
I deflected, stayed vague, but still answered the question to her satisfaction.
When she asked "What do you think about us?" (although she didn't use those specific terms) I let her know that I was working hard on ME and changing the things I needed to change to be a better person, figuring out how I can correct the things I did to contribute to her unhappiness, and look forward to learning more and improving every day. I told her that I absolutely wanted the M to work, that I had faith in myself and I believed in her and I thought there could be an "Us" in the future... But I reiterated that I didn't want to stand in the way of her happiness, didn't want to make decisions FOR her and just had to keep improving myself.
I didn't have any of those thing scripted out per-se, but I did have the general thoughts and ideas rehearsed. Then, I let the conversation flow as naturally as I could.
So, personally, I'd try not to so bluntly deflect that speculative question. Give it a little more:
"That's a great question W. I've actually been doing a ton of thinking about that, and I'm working very hard on myself right now. But I don't want to bore you with all that, what's going on with you?"
So that's my .02.
Oh, and just so you know, I actually had a "Cheat Sheet" printed up and folded into my back pocket. When I got flustered or though a certain conversation was imminent, I excused myself to the bathroom, whipped out the sheet and looked over a couple of my "talking points" and the script I'd written.
W says “So Rough, how are you feeling about us? What do you want to do?”
If she asks you that? I think that you need to answer immediately and unequivocally. You love your W, right? You want to be married to her, right? You're willing to work fixing the marriage aren't you? You've worked towards that up to this point, right?
Why would you want to hide the ball with any of that??
Ok, you bring up a good point. I just figured that sometimes it might be good to refrain from showing my cards. I understand the honesty thing but certain topics I have a hard time being honest with. For example, acting “as if.” I am fine putting on that front around W but that’s not really how I am feeling. I think I understand your point. For some topics it’s ok to show my cards and others it’s not.
Obviously I don't want to go off on a tangent but if she asks, I need to stand for what I believe in! Saying things with true conviction, decisive and concise, this is how I feel about XYZ!!!!
W says “So Rough, how are you feeling about us? What do you want to do?”
If she asks you that? I think that you need to answer immediately and unequivocally. You love your W, right? You want to be married to her, right? You're willing to work fixing the marriage aren't you? You've worked towards that up to this point, right?
Why would you want to hide the ball with any of that??
:)^^^:)
The good news here: You don't even have to rehearse a WORD of what that response would be. That's everything you're working for, the reason you're on this board, and the reason I'm glad to have you in my foxhole!
W says “So Rough, how are you feeling about us? What do you want to do?”
If she asks you that? I think that you need to answer immediately and unequivocally. You love your W, right? You want to be married to her, right? You're willing to work fixing the marriage aren't you? You've worked towards that up to this point, right?
Why would you want to hide the ball with any of that??
Ok, you bring up a good point. I just figured that sometimes it might be good to refrain from showing my cards. I understand the honesty thing but certain topics I have a hard time being honest with. For example, acting “as if.” I am fine putting on that front around W but that’s not really how I am feeling. I think I understand your point. For some topics it’s ok to show my cards and others it’s not.
Obviously I don't want to go off on a tangent but if she asks, I need to stand for what I believe in! Saying things with true conviction, decisive and concise, this is how I feel about XYZ!!!!
Am I on the right track?
Yes. You don't have many opportunities to have a good conversation about your situation with the WAW. You have one here. Listen, validate feelings, and be kind and sincere when you do talk.
It's your once chance to let her know how you feel and what you want.
The 'I don't know how I feel about that. Will think about it and get back to you' response is for those things that catch you off guard.
W: "H, I have decided I want a divorce."
You: "I'm really sorry to hear that. That's not what I want at all. I understand and respect your feelings though."
W: "I would like to go to the courthouse and file the paperwork to get the process started."
You: "Hmmm.... This isn't what I want, so I haven't put a lot of thought into the process. Let me think about it and get back to you."
Make sense?
And AT, I know that this may seem inconsistent to what I was telling you to do with your big talk a couple of weeks ago. I see your situation being different though. Known, active, OM, and really no defined period of space between you and W. I'm willing to bet that a time will come when you have a convo similar to the one Rough is about to have.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
And Rough, I just used the above hypothetical because it obviously presents for a difficult response. Not because that's what I think that your W will be telling you. We have no idea what that is.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Here's my take, and it's a very personal one to me, so I'm not sure how much it will help you.
I'm also VERY bad at memorizing long answers... As a matter of fact, I find that I do MUCH WORSE if I try to memorize something... It sounds too rehearsed when it comes out of my mouth. PLUS, if I'm focused on an exact phrasing of something and I stumble, it all falls apart.
I rehearse the IDEAS, not the script, in my head. The CONCEPTS and the EMOTIONS behind them.
I went over the discussion that I was going to have with my W (Setting boundaries about OM) about a thousand times in my head, but when it came out of my mouth, it wasn't the one I'd been rehearsing.
Instead, it was a better one... It was more organic to the conversation thus far, to the emotions that were on display on both of our parts, and in the cadence of what had been happening.
By rehearsing, I was able to feel confident that I had my "Talking Points" down... those few words or phrases or ideas that I knew I HAD to convey... the rest of it came naturally and was better than anything I could have written beforehand, because I was living in THAT moment.
Sure, as always, looking back I wish I would have said X instead of Y, or refrained from saying Z... but I knew it wouldn't be perfect. Considering the weight of the conversation, I'm still very proud of what I was able to accomplish.
So, to answer your question about the "That's a really good question W..." talk:
Personally, when my W asked me a few open ended questions, I responded differently to each of them... As you said, you can't use the "Let me get back to you" line TOO MUCH, because it'll probably seem disingenuous.
So when my W asked "So what are your plans for the future" I simply stalled for a few seconds by asking for clarification. "What do you mean W? Like what am I doing this weekend?" (I always try to throw some humor into my interactions with W, as it eases the tension and throws the balance back in my favor)... She clarified that she wanted to know what I was going to do as far as living situations, work, writing etc... In the time that she took to clarify, I was able to formulate my response "You know W, I've been thinking about that a ton actually... And I'm definitely leaning towards a few things, but haven't 100% decided. Actually, I've put off a few of those decisions until after we were able to have this talk, so I had more clarity on the situation."
I deflected, stayed vague, but still answered the question to her satisfaction.
When she asked "What do you think about us?" (although she didn't use those specific terms) I let her know that I was working hard on ME and changing the things I needed to change to be a better person, figuring out how I can correct the things I did to contribute to her unhappiness, and look forward to learning more and improving every day. I told her that I absolutely wanted the M to work, that I had faith in myself and I believed in her and I thought there could be an "Us" in the future... But I reiterated that I didn't want to stand in the way of her happiness, didn't want to make decisions FOR her and just had to keep improving myself.
I didn't have any of those thing scripted out per-se, but I did have the general thoughts and ideas rehearsed. Then, I let the conversation flow as naturally as I could.
So, personally, I'd try not to so bluntly deflect that speculative question. Give it a little more:
"That's a great question W. I've actually been doing a ton of thinking about that, and I'm working very hard on myself right now. But I don't want to bore you with all that, what's going on with you?"
So that's my .02.
Oh, and just so you know, I actually had a "Cheat Sheet" printed up and folded into my back pocket. When I got flustered or though a certain conversation was imminent, I excused myself to the bathroom, whipped out the sheet and looked over a couple of my "talking points" and the script I'd written.
^^^^ Wow AT!!! You and Denver have shed a new light on communicating. It’s amazing how my example took on a life of its own. The red flag must have been spotted from a mile away and I had no idea. AT, your post is textbook. I call bs on anyone that doesn't think that’s unbelievable db right there.
I really like the humor part. You defuse a tense subject which makes everything a bit easier. Very calculated and methodical. I got a chuckle out of your note in the pocket comment. The verbiage that Denver gave me a coule weeks ago was in my pocket the last time I had a conversation with W. I never had to use it but it was good to have.
Your right though AT, I can NEVER anticipate everything that will come up but I CAN better prepare myself. I am not going to sweat it too much because I have the validating down, I have the “I need to think about it down.” I am now armed with a full arsenal after AT's and Denver's posts. Complete deflection isn't the right approach with that kind of question. You said it was blunt, I agree. I've heard a lot of the words used to many of you fine people over and over again. The selected words I want to incorporate will just flow, there ingrained in my head. I still think that listening and validating her feelings is the most important. Thanks all!
And AT, I know that this may seem inconsistent to what I was telling you to do with your big talk a couple of weeks ago. I see your situation being different though. Known, active, OM, and really no defined period of space between you and W. I'm willing to bet that a time will come when you have a convo similar to the one Rough is about to have.
I'm 100% in agreement with you on that Denver. Rough and I are in different spots of our sitch, and I completely agree with what you're suggesting here. And I certainly hope I have an opportunity to have this type of opportunity/advice given to me some day!
