WOW! Great steps! Awesome! This is the foundation we all look for and your H has opened up to you!
Quote: We shared some of our feelings on D. I told him the story of my D lawyers advising me not to file because it was not what I want. He said the one he went to was also "not hung-go" about the idea. He said his old C may have hurt our process and that his new one specializes in couples work and does not advocate D, that he sees that as "pro-M". I talked about how much having a pro-M C allowed me to be optimistic in ways I would not have been otherwise seen (and also to deal with my stuff where I needed to do that).
Well, there is hope out there. D lawyers seeing that you don't want a D! I'm amazed, wish there were more D lawyers like that!
I'd say you are doing great! You're DBing your butt off and the payoff will be great!
Deb, B, Ogda, holding on, thank you so much. I had tears reading that other people are hearing this too.
So is there some kind of star alignment lately? Or is it just something they have to go through?
Deb, thanks for telling me I am doing OK with this. This felt so overwhelming and came as a surprise, but in the end of the conversation it felt somewhat good to have discussed it all. Up to last night, I was under the impression my H had made up his mind to recommit and needed time to sort his own head out before he could work on him and I. This is what he said.
The "old me" would have been very emotional in a conversation like this and maybe even talked right over him.
So I was really pleased to be able to handle it in a way I am more proud of and that reflects who I am and the kind of open and intimate sharing and listening I want in my Rs. (I still talked a fair amt. so I could improve, but judging by H's reaction, I think he noticed this habit I have worked hard to change.)
The "old me" would never have thanked him for sharing these feelings, either. Before H left, I did let him know that if he did choose to build a new R, that these are the kind of conversations I'd like to have more of. Not talking like that enough is something he's also brought up previously-- we both have, really.
Today, I had to let him know about our bank appt. next week as I am trying to coordinate schedules, and with that message I also said that I was sorry he had been feeling pessimistic about us but that I'm glad he felt he could share that with me.
Perhaps he's still feeling scared? Or still searching himself? I guess I would be scared if I were in his shoes. Esp. since I have had the BB support and a long run of C and a lot of personal work to get myself to the place where I am. He has not. But he also doesn't know how much I have worked to get here. It's like he wants to feel it first... didn't work like that for me. I had to do first, then my outlook and feelings changed and then I was able to do more. Like Scott Peck says in his chapter on Love in Road Less Travelled (thank god my mother made me read that book as a teen... years later it all sinks in!).
Something that's been on my mind all day is the discussion I had a while back with my C about the reasons my H had given me for wanting to end his marriage. And he said, well, the 2 of you have talked about what was going wrong (we have-- a lot), and you both agree you are not going to go back to that (we have). Then he said "so the reasons your H has given you for leaving his M actually no longer exist." (light bulb went off here, folks!)
This was a session in which we were talking about ME, what I was willing to do differently to make the kind of M I wanted. I was trying to decide at that time what was the right thing, but today I thought about it in regard to H.
Anyway, reading all your posts and thinking further, maybe I was looking at this all wrong this a.m. Perhaps it is not a retreat at all but is the foundation, the being real and intimate that I have wanted so much... even the hard to hear bits.
I don't really know what it is.
H did also make a point of telling me he really cares about me a lot and that he has a lot of respect for me. And he asked if I knew this. I said I always "knew" on one level, but that at times I have questioned it because I was not treated with caring and respect, but lately had felt it again through his actions. He said he completely understood that. This felt important to me.
But I really, really would love some ideas and advice. You all who mentioned similar convos, I am heading to your threads to see what you're up to!
Long time no speak, and alot has happen for us both i see.
You may remember, that about 2 weeks before h asked me if he could come home, he rang me up out of the blue and accussed me of having an affair and, through my dbing, we ended up having a 2 hr marathon convo. I think, that your H may be having doubts, but thats ok. Even after my H asked to come home, he would express his feelings in a way that totally disagreed with what he had asked me for.
My H is diagnosed with major depression, h has been on meds for 5 month (which looks like they ay be about to change) and has just recently started a proper treatment plan. I have found that, with counseling, that the patient seems to get worse at first, and question everything. I think you handled it just fine. You listened and validated. You can't do anymore than that.
As long as you are alright, and i know that you trust yourself to be able to cope, not matter what happens!!!
Keep doing what works, keep expectations low, pma high and patience, patience, patience!!!!
How to give this 'space' that all WA's seem to want? I just don't know. I think it's just getting on with your life, so that they know that you are ok while they sort out thier head. I don't mean getting on as in with out them, just allowing them to sort it out and concentrate on themselves without having to worry about you and know that you are in such pain while they examine their life. Or something like that....i don't think i explained that real well!!! LOL.
Anyway, when i get a bit of time, I'll update you on my sitch. In short, things are going well, H wants to be here, so i'll give ya more details later!! Who knows, i might be able to post a 'sucess story' soon!!!
Remember LOW EXPECTATIONS, HIGH PMA AND PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE!!!!!
Hi Wonder! I am so sorry that you are trying to interpret "alien speak"!!! (((((WONDER)))))
You have gotten great advice here and I especially second what Lee said (Hi, Lee...miss you! ) about PATIENCE, LOW EXPECTATIONS and HIGH PMA...that should be our mantra!!!
I think your H is very confused right now. He probably sees changes in you but isn't sure what to make of them. I heard many mixed messages from H and I think the way you respond can mean everything in how things progress.
You have done a wonderful job validating and listenting. I love to hear you say that the "old me would have done it this way" but I did it that way...that is progress, my friend!!
Go back and reread the six stages of MLC and see if you can pinpoint H in one of them. I think my H is SLOWLY coming out of the tunnel, but it is too late for our M!!
Keep us posted...you are doing a great job DBing!!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
Lee, great to hear from you. Can't wait to hear what's happening for you these days.
Thanks for the good advice and the perspective. What you say makes a lot of sense when I think of my H's interactions with me. It's funny... I did that 'questioning everything' thing myself and he did it big-time with the first C... why did I not remember that until you said it?
H does seem to be so much more interested in how I am and what's happening in my life than he has been in a long time. This feels good to me as it's one of my big LLs, as is returning calls. Come to think of it, he has chosen to do several small and specific LL items of mine pretty regularly ever since I mentioned them. Hmmm.
I also realized in re-reading a piece of this thread that I asked for this conversation. I wanted him to open up and I said I suspected he was avoiding me when feeling low and down and pessimistic about M. It really is a necessary step.
SS, the mixed msgs. are confusing. I tried to pinpoint H in the MLC stages to see if it fit, as a lot of it has fit with his patterns up to now... for a while now he has seemed to be somewhere in withdrawal and depression together.
Quote: Now during stage TWO of Acceptance come the temptations to want to go right back into the "safety" of the tunnel they just came out of. The silence of the spouse is most important during this time-- all you can do is be understanding and patient with them as this MUST happen and they MUST come through alone. They will SEEM to be going backward, but they aren't always. This regression is necessary to move forward. It is during this time that they will "revisit" ALL stages of the Mid Life Crisis except Denial and shut the "doors" to each stage PERMANENTLY, one by one, never to return to them.
At this time, if they give in to temptation (especially in affairs and addictions) OR get spooked by their own fears, they WILL RUN RIGHT BACK into the tunnel. But they can only run back as far as the doors that have NOT been closed permanently. Much of the time, they just run back as far as WITHDRAWAL, but will try to continue the process to come out once they feel "safe" to continue. So they must be allowed to come through WITHOUT interruption.
This describes best how he is acting, but it seems almost too good to be true that he could be at the end! However, he did first start talking about coming home well over a year ago... so maybe it is possible??
Here is my plan: to keep doing the patience/PMA/low expectations/positive thing I have been. To give him that space to work on his stuff and not feel he has to worry about me.
"Here is my plan: to keep doing the patience/PMA/low expectations/positive thing I have been. To give him that space to work on his stuff and not feel he has to worry about me."
W,
You sound great and appear to have come a long way. You guys give me a little hope but right now I am having trouble dropping the rope. Just keep telling H what you need and maybe he will respond.
Well, now that I have let all my thoughts about that conversation mill around a bit, I feel fine.
A C friend gave me some additional insight: that perhaps H is feeling not worthy and feeling the difficulty of getting out of his web. Or perhaps he does not trust his C enough yet to fully open up so if still in the defenses (here is why my M was so awful and why I am here). Or maybe using C as a way to get a rubber stamp for his situation instead of looking at what he needs to change in himself.
Or his C might be someone who focuses on going back into all the negative feelings he has had instead of how to have the kind of M we talk about, which she pointed out will be reinforced by OW any chance she gets.
Basically her point was that I don't know why he would suddenly come out with something completely different. Good point. The moral of the story? Don't try to get in his head, wonder!
Re-reading my more recent emails from H and my journal entries showed me that yes, H was asking me and thanking me for my patience, telling me he wanted his M and me and how scared he is about doing it the old way, asking how we fix it together, etc. etc. (no, didn't imagine all that...but thought I should check. )
So if he is doubting all that stuff he has been saying, fine. Of course he has doubts. Doesn't everyone? It's the assumptions that drive me a bit crazy. Oh well. Could be much worse, and it has been, too.
I will see H this week for our bank appt. I hope he is feeling more positive. But I know that I am. I'm really excited about my new business plan and the skills I am learning and the stuff I have been up to. Oh, what that boy is missing...
Hi Wonder, Just wanted to let you know I was catching up with your thread. I really think overall things sound very positive and you're really inspiring me with your patience and attitude during a time where many people wouldn't be able to stay so centered. Right on!
Quote: Re-reading my more recent emails from H and my journal entries showed me that yes, H was asking me and thanking me for my patience, telling me he wanted his M and me and how scared he is about doing it the old way, asking how we fix it together, etc. etc. (no, didn't imagine all that...but thought I should check.
GREAT!!!!
Now keep telling yourself this.....
Quote: The moral of the story? Don't try to get in his head, wonder!
Remember, the only person you can control is yourself and you are doing one heck of a job right now!! H would have to be blind not to notice...keep it up!!!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
) about PATIENCE, LOW EXPECTATIONS and HIGH PMA...that should be our mantra!!! 
)