I hear what everyone is saying, but part of me wonders if we're not seeing the big picture. I mean, Arsene is the only one who's actually lived through every detail of this mess. He's the one who faces his W and communicates with her. I wonder, is there anything we are missing?
I personally would never stay with my H if he refused to end his A, but now, after going what I've gone through, understand that everyone is different. Arsene said this sitch is ok with him now. Maybe tomorrow it won't be, and he'll say to himself, "I had enough." But it seems that day is not today, and he needs to give himself time.
When my H had the EA, I continued trying to save our M bc I thought he had ended the R with the OW. He knew I would ask for a D if he stayed in contact with her. So what did he do? He lied--again. And progressed to a PA. In retrospect, I wish I had either ended things when I found out about the EA or be a better listener to understand what he was going through and avoid further lies. Don't know if the second option would've worked. There are no guarantees. We're dealing with people, and people are unpredictable. Arsene might find himself in this sitch for 3 more days or 3 more years and decide to give up, or he might actually be successful and save his M. But maybe he should listen to his inner voice and take things one day at a time.
My advice: Arsene, keep doing some serious soul-searching, and take care of yourself.
Yes, I'd agree that you are following the guidelines. Everything you've done can probably be found in the book. But what about "Doing what works"? Do you see your plan working? Now or even in a year or two? If you can answer yes to this question and have no problem sticking to it then you're good to go. My only suggestion would be to stay flexible enough to consider other options. That is one of the great things of being here. We get to hear many different viewpoints which gives us more options to consider. I kinda like it when folks tell me I'm f'n up. It challenges me to think!
Thanks FY. I don't know if this is going to work in a year or two. Who can? But as I said, I've seen huge improvements in my sitch, in my interactions with my W. Hell I even noticed last night that W had "liked" two of the many pictures of our family days that D8 had posted. The only two pictures of the 3 of us together. I think what I'm doing got her thinking.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
I'll achieve this by being consistently upbeat and cheerful when she's around
OM does not matter. He wins if I let him. That means if I let his presence in my situation get to me, he wins. I cannot show W that I am bothered if she tells me that she has or is going to have contact with OM
I'll achieve this by making sure she is comfortable and relaxed when ever she's around me.
)I'll achieve this by listening and validating wheneve she does open up about anything. Goal 3 will also help her relax more in my company and perhaps help her open up.
That is what I am referencing Aresne.
To be like this every time is not realistic in the long run.
OK CB. What you are listing there is the "act as if" and the "fake it till you make it" stuff. Frankly, the further I detach, the less the outcome matters. It's not an effort to be upbeat in her company. I've reached a point where I can usually keep OM off my mind and I'm getting better everyday at validating and listening. This is also helping me in other relationships with friends and colleagues.
Yes, you are right. It still, at times, require an effort to keep it up and I don't know how long I can keep it up for but right now, I'm not worried about that. I just try to make to the end of one day at a time.
The thing is, when I do have enough and can't keep this up anymore, or when I stop seeing baby steps towards my goals, that is when I think I should change what I do.
Does it make sense?
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
When it comes to being a male LBS when your WAS is in an affair they won't end, it's not the best source IMHO.
Hey Bill, thanks for your time. I've read Dobson's Tough Love because it's mentioned here quite a bit but I didn't like it's punitive approach.
DR isn't about doing everything at all costs to save your M, DR is about doing what works, but it's also about saving yourself and getting yourself back on track to have a healthy relationship with anyone (not just the WAS).
From what I can see in my sitch, what I am doing is working. I never expected W to leave OM after two days but I meant to make her think, and I think she is. And Bill I am improving the person I am daily, and getting stronger all the time. This is something I can do, for now. When I can no longer do it, or when I see that it doesn't work, I'll consider other options.
Arsene I spent 7 months in shoes similar (not yours of course) to you and living that way is living a life of fear. I missed out on a lot this year coming to terms with what was happening to me and in my life. That is why I'm also trying hard to keep focusing on my life. I'm not waiting for my W to come back. Right now I wouldn't know what to do if she did . I'm working on myself and finally becoming the man I want to be, giving her time, and reasons to think about what she is doing. And from what I can tell right now, she is thinking.
I still love my W, but I hate the things and the current person she has become. Having an affair is worse than a cowards way out.
I can't disagree with you on that mate, but to keep this in my heart will never help me forgive her in the future. I'm starting the process of forgiveness now. I need to forgive her now, no matter what the outcome is in the end, if I hope to behave in a way that doesn't show resentment in my interactions with her now.
What you have to realise is that your relationship with your daughter is between you and your daughter. You can still come together with your W for milestones in life, you know the important stuff.
Yes, and maybe one day, when I reach the end of what I've got to give to this situation, it will be great comfort for me to know that I can look my D8 in the eye and tell I honestly gave it all I had. I would prefer putting more into this than not enough. Since I'm not stopping my life anyway, I know I'll never regret what I'm doing today.
Don't let fear run your life Arsene, standing still will only continue to make you a doormat. You are better than that mate.
I don't feel like a doormat anymore. I actually feel in control of my actions and I feel good about these actions. The old me would have done what most people here are suggesting in a heart beat, but the old me is what got me here. If you'd known me before Bill, you never guess we'd be on different sides of this discussion . I like who I am becoming through this mate. I'm a much better example for my daughter. I'm teaching her patience, tolerance, self-control, empathy and many other things I never knew I had in me.
Your W has no reason to stop or re-think what she is doing because you haven't given her a reason to stop and question what she is doing.
If you'd seen how I reacted to things in the past, you'd see that I'm giving her many reasons to stop and reconsider. I'm no longer the man she left, and I just know that she is churning things over right now.
If you were a kid at school and you let a bully steal your lunch money and didn't do anything to stop him, do you think he'd think twice about stealing it the next day and the day after that? No! Because people will do whatever you allow them to do to you.
What you said there actually happened, for many years. Then I got fed up with it and got tough. With every year that past I got tougher and tougher until I became the assh0le that got me in this mess. There are more ways than one to fight a battle mate.
You only get 1 life, don't waste it being treated this way.
Take control of your life for YOU, stop making choices based only around what you think will please your W.
I'm not trying to bash you Arsene, you really are a good guy and I don't like seeing you keep doing this to yourself over and over.
Hope you are having a good weekend.
Bill
Bill I really appreciate everything you said here today. I know that like many of my friends around here, you only want what you think is best for me, but for now, don't worry. I think I'm in a good place and this thread has helped me figure out where I am and what I need to do. All the contradicting advice has forced me to really think hard about all of this and I think I'm where I want to be for now.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
I hear what everyone is saying, but part of me wonders if we're not seeing the big picture. I mean, Arsene is the only one who's actually lived through every detail of this mess. He's the one who faces his W and communicates with her. I wonder, is there anything we are missing?
I personally would never stay with my H if he refused to end his A, but now, after going what I've gone through, understand that everyone is different. Arsene said this sitch is ok with him now. Maybe tomorrow it won't be, and he'll say to himself, "I had enough." But it seems that day is not today, and he needs to give himself time.
When my H had the EA, I continued trying to save our M bc I thought he had ended the R with the OW. He knew I would ask for a D if he stayed in contact with her. So what did he do? He lied--again. And progressed to a PA. In retrospect, I wish I had either ended things when I found out about the EA or be a better listener to understand what he was going through and avoid further lies. Don't know if the second option would've worked. There are no guarantees. We're dealing with people, and people are unpredictable. Arsene might find himself in this sitch for 3 more days or 3 more years and decide to give up, or he might actually be successful and save his M. But maybe he should listen to his inner voice and take things one day at a time.
My advice: Arsene, keep doing some serious soul-searching, and take care of yourself.
Thanks Tori. Right or wrong, that's the way I feel today.
Nonetheless, your words here today (from all of you) are keeping me from perhaps losing myself in this. I constantly re-evaluate where I am and consider everything which is said to me. Sometimes you guys may feel like I'm constantly defending/justifying myself and my opinions and perhaps I am. The thing is, when I can no longer do that and look myself in the eyes, I'll know it's time to move on to the next step, whatever that might be.
I've been told over and over again that this was not a race but a marathon and that we can not change the WAS, just ourselves. I am living by that right now. I am learning what it is to be loving and patient. I am learning what it is to be detached and not let my W's every actions and words (or lack thereof) dictate my own or affect my thoughts and feelings.
For now, this seems to be working. I don't feel like I'm standing still. I'm actually starting to trust, really trust the DB techniques, because I've seen progress I never thought I'd see from sticking to it, with my sitch but also in my life.
Thanks for understanding Tori.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Our "inner voice", pre-self improvements, usually got us here.
Food for thought.
Starsky
Yes Starsky I agree. And a lot of the advice I'm getting here seems like what the old me would have done. I know that your strong aggressive approach worked for you and perhaps one day, it's something I'll need to consider.
I also know that most people wouldn't even consider doing what I am doing now (heck a couple years ago I'd have ridiculed anyone who would have - in fact, I though my SIL was pathetic for doing just that - they are now happily re-united btw). It's not always easy. In fact, it's never easy but it's what I feel will allow me to move forward and live with myself more easily, for now.
Please keep your comments coming. I always appreciate hearing different opinions. Cheers mate!
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Arsene. I do not want you to become bitter. I hope you love that woman to the end of your days. No matter the outcome. But a truthful love.
There is this clock as well.
You can keep in your lane but you have to detach.
Think back to Basic training and then pulling an all night on guard duty. Then when you hit the bunk OS3 decides that is the moment to pull a 50 click hike in full gear. And you were volintold to pull a few more cause you know the guy beside you just said FUBIJAR.
What did you do? You detached. You removed yourself from the moment and completed the task at hand. Your goals became very simple. To the point. Nothing grand. But they were goals for one person only. You.
So make a few goals that are just for you. I think you forget that there are two parts in your stitch. You and your wife. Your focus is very narrow.
Do something different. Cause you have fallen into the trap of living the dream.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
Arsene you've stuck to your own plan throughout all of the blunt advice that some of us have been giving you. I really admire that, it shows you have strong character.
You are happy with what is happening in terms of your actions or non-actions in your sitch, so I'll hang back on putting my views forward right now and give you some breathing space
Just try to detach a bit more and do some more things just for you to keep your physical, social and emotional wellbeing in a healthy place, because you are going to need it mate.
Take care Bill
Me 34 W 32 D 9 S 6 M: 9 years T: 12 Bomb: 02/11/12 EA/PA: 12/17/11 - ongoing Moved out: Oct 2012 Joint Filed for D: 2/11/13
. I'm working on myself and finally becoming the man I want to be, giving her time, and reasons to think about what she is doing. And from what I can tell right now, she is thinking.