I simply began the DB techniques. Detach, be in good spirits, do some 180s. It was all fake. How can I really do 180s when I am lying to everyone, including myself.
180s do feel forced at first, the reason is because we want status quo in our lives. Whenever we change our mind is constantly telling us "quit that, go back to the old ways! It's much easier!" But when we stick with those 180's, a strange thing happens. At some point, we cease forcing ourselves to do the 180's, they become natural. They become normal. I had this realization yesterday, I did something for my W without even thinking about it and realized hours later that it used to be a forced 180 but now is just instinct.
Quote:
She deserves love. She deserves respect. She deserves affection. She deserves someone that will appreciate her, love her, kiss her…. I wish it could be me, but I am sure that it will never be me.
Why? Who better to provide it than someone who has been through the fire and is ready to give it to her unconditionally? Why do you think someone else will give her that? It is MUCH more likely they will give her the exact same thing the old you gave her. Now that you've had this epiphany it's time to redouble your efforts to get her back!
Thanks for the words and I agree with you. I think I am THE PERSON to give her what she needs. Words can't really express how much I truly love my wife. I feel like there is no hope now. I hate feeling this way, I just cant help it right now.
I really think I screwed up yesterday, just don't know how bad. For the last few days, things have been good. We have been talking as friends more than usual, I have been detached as much as I can, spending lots of time with the kids, etc. she has made several vague comments about the future. Some seemed (loosely) to include me, most were about separation. Things like "my friend will be moving soon and I thought about giving her some of the extra stuff we have(dishes, silverware), oh, unless we may need them (hint about splitting things for separation. We both kinda just laughed it off and topics changed. Overall, things have been, well the same. She also has been talking about doing one of those "in home" product demo/sales things. She didnt have the money to purchase the startup kit so i said that i want her to do something she enjoyed and i would help her. I put the $500 kit on my credit card and told her we could work out the payback later. She thanked me a couple of times and again, she was very talkative stating her excitement. Then last night I had to open my big mouth. We were both cleaning up the house last night. She seemed a little more frustrated and distant than the days before. She had made a comment about something, and I stupidly asked something like " so when are we gonna set down and go over the Separation paperwork?" she seemed to get really mad. She again turned it to my communication skills and how they were bad. She said " you can never ask me for a day to set down and discuss things. You just blurt them out whenever." she expressed her concerns about not having medical coverage for herself and D15 (who is my step d) . I said that I still wanted to adopt D15 so she would be covered. I also said I would help her with medical coverage, so not to worry with that. She said a few for comments, kind of smart assed ones, and I said look W, "this was never what I wanted, I still don't want this. You are the one that sees no hope. If you want it to be over, there is nothing I can say or do to change you mind. Again, your the one that doesn't want to be married" . She said "look at that wall.This is the same as it always is. It's like banging your head against the wall, over and over (somehow referencing us arguing, me trying to win her back, me not doing what I promised, etc.) I told her this was not the same because she refuses to work on us and I can't do it anymore. I said that I was not trying to win her back. I said "I am done W. DONE" I walked away and left her standing there. I went to kiss all the kids goodnight and tucked them in. Then I left. I stayed gone until about 2:30 am. When I got home, of course she was in bed.
When I woke up this morning, she was awake. I came upstairs whistling acting in a good mood. I greater her, she greeted back. She made a comment about me staying out late and I didn't really say anything about it. I kissed D4 and left.
I was at work for a little while, when W texted me a Facebook notification she got about a motorcycle ride. She said "not sure if you got the notification" I replied back No, I don't have FB(she knows this) and thanked her. I asked If she planned on taking her bike and going. She said that she was afraid to get that far away and have problems. I reassured her that she wouldn't have problems with her bike and it sounded like a good time. She said she thought I may enjoy it. Then she said "D4 would like to have lunch with you" and that she was on base. I replied "tell D I'd love to have lunch". I'll be meeting her in a few minutes for lunch.
So, someone give me some feedback. Did I screw up with separation talk? I truly love my wife and do not want divorce. I didn't know why I even brought it up. Things were going pretty well otherwise. Thanks in advance.
Hey AML. I am sorry I am not Denver but here are my thoughts. And they will be a bit bold because I'm a bit tired - so apologies up front.
Why did you bring the need to talk about separation up? You don't talk about the relationship unless she brings it up. The only comment she made about separation that you shared was to do w giving someone else your surplus stuff. It sounded like she was checking w where you were (temperature checking). And I'm not surprised, if you have been making those "I'm Done" remarks. They sounded like you want her to hurry up and leave already when it appeared a few days ago that neither of you wanted out.
If she said "I told you I am done AML. Done" what would you think she meant? Because that's what you told her. Are you done? If so get the d4mn paperwork. But you're NOT are you? You keep posting here! And your wife even thinks you're cycling cos you say something and then come whistling up the stairs carrying on as normal.
And she told you again an issue she has - you bringing things up when she isn't ready to talk about things. I have to admit that that is what I USED to do too but it isn't about US anymore is it? That was what we did to create this sitch in the first place according to your long post. That's your MEGA180 isn't it?
And you told her she was wrong with her thinking - nice.
She seems to be trying to engage w you and you are keeping her at arms length. Detaching is so that you get your emotions under control and you feel centred not forever.
Do not talk about separation anymore and even if she brings it up be detached and listen.
Now perhaps you said you were done because you have had enough of this road already and I understand that - goodness knows how many times I have spat the dummy (but only once at H in two years)- but this is a matter of baby steps and patience. Go read the 37 rules again.
I'm glad she turned up on base and that you had lunch together - what a lovely family thing to do.
I simply began the DB techniques. Detach, be in good spirits, do some 180s. It was all fake. How can I really do 180s when I am lying to everyone, including myself.
180s do feel forced at first, the reason is because we want status quo in our lives. Whenever we change our mind is constantly telling us "quit that, go back to the old ways! It's much easier!" But when we stick with those 180's, a strange thing happens. At some point, we cease forcing ourselves to do the 180's, they become natural. They become normal. I had this realization yesterday, I did something for my W without even thinking about it and realized hours later that it used to be a forced 180 but now is just instinct.
Quote:
She deserves love. She deserves respect. She deserves affection. She deserves someone that will appreciate her, love her, kiss her…. I wish it could be me, but I am sure that it will never be me.
Why? Who better to provide it than someone who has been through the fire and is ready to give it to her unconditionally? Why do you think someone else will give her that? It is MUCH more likely they will give her the exact same thing the old you gave her. Now that you've had this epiphany it's time to redouble your efforts to get her back!
I agree with all of that ^^^. With the caveat that your 180s have to be sincere and real. You can't do them JUST for your W. So AS is right, they will feel forced until they truly become a part of you, a habit. But they can also feel forced if they are not things that you want for yourself. Make sense?
Why do you think that they feel forced?
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Hey AML. I am sorry I am not Denver but here are my thoughts. And they will be a bit bold because I'm a bit tired - so apologies up front.
Why did you bring the need to talk about separation up? You don't talk about the relationship unless she brings it up. The only comment she made about separation that you shared was to do w giving someone else your surplus stuff. It sounded like she was checking w where you were (temperature checking). And I'm not surprised, if you have been making those "I'm Done" remarks. They sounded like you want her to hurry up and leave already when it appeared a few days ago that neither of you wanted out.
If she said "I told you I am done AML. Done" what would you think she meant? Because that's what you told her. Are you done? If so get the d4mn paperwork. But you're NOT are you? You keep posting here! And your wife even thinks you're cycling cos you say something and then come whistling up the stairs carrying on as normal.
And she told you again an issue she has - you bringing things up when she isn't ready to talk about things. I have to admit that that is what I USED to do too but it isn't about US anymore is it? That was what we did to create this sitch in the first place according to your long post. That's your MEGA180 isn't it?
And you told her she was wrong with her thinking - nice.
She seems to be trying to engage w you and you are keeping her at arms length. Detaching is so that you get your emotions under control and you feel centred not forever.
Do not talk about separation anymore and even if she brings it up be detached and listen.
Now perhaps you said you were done because you have had enough of this road already and I understand that - goodness knows how many times I have spat the dummy (but only once at H in two years)- but this is a matter of baby steps and patience. Go read the 37 rules again.
I'm glad she turned up on base and that you had lunch together - what a lovely family thing to do.
Happy Friday
Just my thoughts
I absolutely agree with Tumbling.
Are you "DONE"? If so, then be done. If not, don't say it.
You are quite simply doing too much...
Too much of the same behavior that got you here,
Too much contact with your W,
Too much R talk,
Too much whining about the situation,
Too much acting out,
Too much trying to control your W,
Too much trying to control the situation,
---
And not enough...
DB,
Giving your W space,
having patience,
controlling the only thing that you can control... YOU, YOUR WORDS, AND ACTIONS
---
I'm sorry AML, but I see you blowing this up.
You have to get this under control. Go reread the 37 DB rules again... go read DR again.
---
STOP talking about the separation. Do not bring it up.
If brought up by your W, simply listen and validate her feelings.
Validating does not mean telling her that she is wrong to feel that way that she does. And btw, you told her in your first talk that you have accepted that you have lost her for good... but then, in the next conversation you are telling her that you still think that it can be fixed... but for her feelings.
Not consistent.
In sum... Do more STFU... Do more listening... Start focusing on you and what you can do to change (your 180s) ... if you even want to change... AML, it is the only thing that you can control.
Do you want to save this marriage or not?
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
You are exactly right. I am nowhere close to consistent. I guess when I brought up the separation stuff, I was using it more as a PowerPlay to reinforce that I was movin on with my life. I just went to far! I brought the "not what I want" during the conversation because it's not. It's not what I want at all. In my mind I wasn't reinforcing anything, I was just reminder her it's been her decision all along. The I'm done part was my frustration comin out because of the current "room mate" sitch. I need to be more consistent. With everything.
As far as lunch yesterday with W and D4, it was actually really great. We actually talked a lot. No R or future anything from either of us. D4 and I laughed a lot. We were together about 2 hours or so for lunch. We said our goodbyes after lunch and I went back to work.
I left work a couple of hours later and got home. W and D4 had gone shopping and weren't home yet. Since the weather was nice, I took the motorcycle out for a couple of hours because theres not going to be to many warm days left. While I was out, I texted W to ask what time she needed me home(she had a sales party to go to). She told me and asked if I had thought about dinner for the kids. I said that I hadn't given it much thought. She recommended routissorie chicken from the local grocery store and a few things. I said it sounded great and I would get home a little early and would run out to pick it up. She kindly said not to worry about it, she would pick it up and to enjoy my ride. (wow! Didn't really expect that). I thanked her and agreed.
I got home and dinner was almost done. I jumped in to assist by making the mashed potatoes and cutting the chicken. I got everything prepared so W could get ready to leave. We all sat down and had dinner as a family which was nice. W left for her party and I watched a movie with the kids. I wake up extremely early every morning. The weekends role around and my internal clock still goes off. I got up at 4 (this morning) and came to get coffee ready. I looked outside and W still wasn't home yet. I made coffee and a few mins later W got home. I greeted her and asked how the party was. I was cheery in mood. She told me about it, how it started late anderson other stuff. I listened and went on making my coffee. She showed me pictures of the party and talked a little about some people she met. She said it ended late, and I misunderstood a little and asked "it just now ended (remember its 4 a.m.) and she said "no, it ended about 12:30" I said Oh and went on doing my thing. Then she said, I went to breakfast and left it at that. I dropped the conversation and she asked what I was doing up so early. I told her this is just what time I get up (she knows this) and I was going to the gym in a little as long as I can get my butt in gear. We talked for a minute longer and she said she was going to bed. I told her Good Night and she said good morning. I chuckled and said GM .
Yay, it sounds like you are calm today and that you both enjoyed sharing lunch together yesterday. I like that you still laugh together.
I understand your frustration with the "room mate" sitch but it is what it is and it won't be forever - it just is for now.
My H isn't even in the house and we have only just restarted coms by text, haven't seen each other properly for 4months so I'm pretty jealous of those who have an opportunity to show that anyone would be a fool to leave them.
Can you try and look at it like you are just room-mates for now and you are the amazingly cool and chillaxed AML that we see sometimes in your posts that any woman would be a fool to leave?
See, I'm starting again with my H but I know Rome wasn't built in a day. It's very small steps and "treading lightly" according to AFA75. I'm certain you can do this.
I've found that relationships/interacting with others are the way we grow and learn about our selves. We learn in them how to be our best selves and how our actions/behaviours impact others. We can practice our 180s with everyone not just our other halves. Even posting on your thread and others enables me to be my best Self not for you or H but for me.
If you haven't done it already, go visit/post on other's threads as you will see backslides as well as great DBing to learn from.
One other thing I have done, is I have practiced only 1 or 2 180s/DB moves that I really want to be like at a time and am waiting for them to bed in, before I add others. Kind of helps.
Have a good weekend, Mr Chillax!
ME41 H39 T12 M9 Ilybinilwy 10/2010 H moves out 11/2010 H moves in 09/2011 out 11/2011 Try to fix it alone, give up 07/2012 Tumbling to file 02/01/2013 :-) "Strong on the inside, soft on the outside"
Again thanks for the reply and the kind words. To be honest, I'm really lost. One minute I feel I can't go on like this, the next I feel good about what I'm doing. Im so confused on how to proceed. 180s are difficult because her biggest issue with me was that I was not affectionate enough, intamite or sexual. I had issues when she came back after she left. I search for answers to questions she didn't want to answer. Somewhere over the past two months she changed again and gave up. How can I do 180s when I can't touch her. Can't show affection. Etc!!!! To her, being detached is more of the same! At least when I mentioned the separation paperwork the other day, she was nicer to me the next day.
Update: so after W got home at 4 am, I was of course up. I went to the gym as I mentioned to her and went to the grocery store afterwards. I returned home about an hour ago and started unloading groceries. She was directing the children to clean the living room and started helping put away the groceries. While we were unloading and putting away, she mentioned that she was going to a "jewelry party" tonight and OBTW, would not be returning afterwards because she was going to the local amusement park tonight for the Halloween events. She didn't mention who she was going with, not that I really expected her to. She then made the comment "I'm not sure why I tell you where I'm going, but at least I tell you". She was of course referring to when I go out, I don't mention where I go. Stupidly I asked "do you want me to tell you?" she said No and I let it go and continued putting groceries away. She also said she just feels that she needs to tell me where she goes and I said "W, you don't have to tell me where you go" I WANTED to say that I really wouldn't and don't believe what she tells me about where she goes.
I had to walk away because I want to scream. She also keeps asking me to do some "honey dos" when I get a chance. I WANT TO F'N SCREAM!!!!!!! But I can't. Trying to maintain composure.
AML No, you can't scream but I know you want to. You can type in CAPS here instead LOL! We all get in that headspace - you're not alone.
So does that mean she isn't coming home at all tonight?
And it wasn't stupid to ask if she wanted to know where you are going - she seemed to be digging at you on your behaviour.
Why would she feel she needs to tell you? Did something happen in the past that you don't/wouldn't trust her?
What's a honey do? If it's some H/W R thing then she is definitely giving you mixed messages and you know - none of what they say and half of what they do...
As for the physical 180 - has she told you not to touch her at all?
Detaching is NOT being cold, ignoring etc We do it for us so that we can be calm, not to punish/harm relationship. It is about not taking all she does/doesn't do, says/doesn't say personally. If we are detached from their actions, we can respond from a place of love and honouring them in who they are, rather than reacting because our ego is wounded. It means we accept their choices/actions (unless it infringes a boundary) and let it wash over us (you are getting better at this). It also enables us to be cool when something positive happens. We are "charged neutral". It means being detached from any outcome of our actions too. No expectations.
HTH
Aside. Sometimes I wonder how households run like this esp with children. That folks just tell the other what they're doing and expect the other to deal with it. What if you had plans that you hadn't mentioned either? It isn't respectful by either party in my opinion but that's just me.
