What should I do? Which technique to use?

[jzoom]

It was drastic and it definately got her attention. I am on the verge of not being able to pay any bills, buy any food, or get any gas. There's been no repect for the financial situation as I've paid for EVERYTHING, my stuff and all of her stuff, all of her bills too. The gas for her to take the car and go running around town non-stop and visiting family without me all the time. I'm funding a WAW and I had to put a stop to it for my own good.

Yes, lack of sex is upsetting. I know DB says that you have to be their friend, connect emotionally, and go slow to recover the intimacy. I did end up using a hot topic with her to get her attention, to make a drastic move.

Now, yes, I've set out the ultimatum. If you're not going to act like my gf (spend time with me, help around the house, back me up with the kids, help out financially, and start working on intimacy) then you're not going to be my gf that I just keep providing for until you can make your escape and leave me with nothing but debt or worse.

It's see-saw, it's me being a doormat, I told her I was tired of providing for her while she walked all over me. Did I go to an extreme? Yes I did, very much so. Sometimes though, it seems extremes are the only thing that work. When we "talk" she doesn't pay attention, tv is on, there's some sort of timetable b/c of kids or whatever, and so the "conversation" gets rushed and she just rants at me, tells me why I am wrong, and then leaves.

I am very much torn at this point. Deep, deep down I know I still love her, I love the kids and the baby. Deep, deep down I don't want her out of my life. At the same time, I can't keep going with the status quo and from a very real place we would soon not have food, or transportation, or possibly even a house with the way things have been going.

While we are still in the house together, I'm treating her with respect and being polite. I have to b/c if this goes the route of her moving out on her own or if I have to evict then I can't give her ammo against me in court. I also have to b/c I've given the ultimatum, I didn't even end up having an ILYBINILWY talk with her really, and maybe, just maybe she was really trying after she had given me her ILYBINILWY talk...maybe I did royally screw things up.

If I give her respect and I'm polite, but also I'm not the "provider", she'll see what life is really like without me. Either she chooses that life or she chooses to really work on things with me and then I'll do my part. I'll slow my roll and stay away from the intimacy issue. She's already been divorced and she was pretty much set up with WAW syndrom, this time I really did something different and beat the WAW to the punch. Either it's going to work and things are going to turn around and this will be a huge success story...or we are going to part ways as best we can and hopefully learn to set better, reasonable adult, boundaries with future partners.


Please, please, please, if anybody, MrBond or anybody, has anything they want to say go ahead. If you think I'm a douche, a-hole, or d*ck go ahead and tell me. If there's things I did right or wrong go ahead and tell me. If there's stuff still to be done tell me. I think continuing the discussion, no matter how wrong I am, no matter what the outcome of this sitch is, is going to be useful for all involved. Maybe somebody else will read the thread and learn from my mistakes.

[MrBond]

"Yes, lack of sex is upsetting."

Weak excuse. You do know that long term relationships actually have diminished sex right?

"Now, yes, I've set out the ultimatum. If you're not going to act like my gf (spend time with me, help around the house, back me up with the kids, help out financially, and start working on intimacy) then you're not going to be my gf that I just keep providing for until you can make your escape and leave me with nothing but debt or worse."

Doesn't matter if you don't change. You didn't change and perpetuated the cycle. You had to be the one to change and keep them consistent. But you didn't. You let your insecurities get to you.

"It's see-saw, it's me being a doormat,"

This is what I can't stand. Just because you made a decision to make things better doesn't make you a doormat. You chose this path with no expectations from her. She didn't have to do it also. It was your choice. You made the decision, deal with it.

"I told her I was tired of providing for her while she walked all over me. Did I go to an extreme? Yes I did, very much so. Sometimes though, it seems extremes are the only thing that work."

Yeah that showed her kids! That mean woman made you change your locks and kick them out with no other home to live in. That serves that baby right. I guess you showed them what a real man does.

"When we "talk" she doesn't pay attention, tv is on, there's some sort of timetable b/c of kids or whatever, and so the "conversation" gets rushed and she just rants at me, tells me why I am wrong, and then leaves."

Hmmm, you know this is going to happen again when you get M.

"If I give her respect and I'm polite, but also I'm not the "provider", she'll see what life is really like without me."

She wants more than just a "provider". That's the problem with those alpha male sites that you've been reading. They convince you that you need to act a certain way to get her "sexual" with you and if she doesn't, then you move on. Real life doesn't work that way.

"Either she chooses that life or she chooses to really work on things with me and then I'll do my part."

Ha! So what if the roles were reversed? Do you really want someone demanding you do what they tell you to do? It's not quid pro quo. You start the positive changes and keep them that way and she'll change.

"I'll slow my roll and stay away from the intimacy issue."

Again with the sex.

"She's already been divorced and she was pretty much set up with WAW syndrom,"

Where in the world did you come up with this prognosis? I guess you're a psychologist now.

"Either it's going to work and things are going to turn around and this will be a huge success story...or we are going to part ways as best we can and hopefully learn to set better, reasonable adult, boundaries with future partners."

Not going to change because you're didn't change.

" Maybe somebody else will read the thread and learn from my mistakes."

Your main mistake was not learning what DB is. See you here in a couple of years after you're married.

[AnotherStander]

I am very much torn at this point. Deep, deep down I know I still love her, I love the kids and the baby. Deep, deep down I don't want her out of my life. At the same time, I can't keep going with the status quo and from a very real place we would soon not have food, or transportation, or possibly even a house with the way things have been going.

Well, it sounds like your financial situation was not sustainable even if you guys were getting along great. But I think kicking her out was not a good idea if you still want an R with her as it is more likely to cause her to go "no contact" on you, possibly for good. I think it could have been handled in a more loving and respectful manner that could have paved the way to you to at least still be friends.

Either she chooses that life or she chooses to really work on things with me and then I'll do my part.

It sounds to me like you may still be in limbo though. You kicked her out, but the cops said that you technically can't do that because she resides there. You haven't started eviction proceedings, right? So where does that leave you, has she agreed to leave? Is there a timeline? Or is she waiting for you to evict her?

Either it's going to work and things are going to turn around and this will be a huge success story...

You might want to sit down and write down your thoughts on what a success story for you would look like. Establish your goals. Because if your GF approaches you about reconciling, you'll want to be prepared to have a talk about what that entails. IE, are you expecting her to get a job? Quit complaining to you all the time? Be more intimate? Go to counseling? It's hard to say if reconciliation is even possible at this point but it's best to be prepared.

[jzoom]

All good points from MrBond and AnotherStander. I'm going to re-read them and think about them rather than just start some sort of point-by-point debate.

Fri I did post a 30 day notice to quit which is the first step before going through the court for eviction. Sat I sent her a text and said that I'd like to talk with her about where each of us wants the R to go and I apologized for over-reacting Thur. We finally sat down Sun evening and talked.



I apologized for Thur, that I used a hot button issue to get an extreme reaction, and she immediately said that if I was sorry why were the notices still up. I told her that I was apologzing for my actions, for the way I did it. I then gave her ILYBINILWY because that's how I really feel. I told her that I love and care for her and the kids but I have no "in-love" feelings.

Interesting thing, she still trusted me to hold the baby and she wasn't afraid to be in the house alone with me because I had offered in the text to go to a public place to talk.

I told her that I think we are both capable of developing a happy, healthly R. I apologized for starting a downward spiral of disrespect by treating her like a piece of meat. She then started listing off all the wrong I have done along the way and I counterd a couple of times. I then let her just go for a bit and get it out.

After she got a few more things out and was quite, I said to her that I see no point in us just going at each other like we have for months. I said that if we want to work on things then we should talk about how to move forward and fix things and that if we aren't going to work on things (or if we talk about how to fix things and realize we can't) then we should talk about how to part ways without hurting each other more.

She was crying through most of this and it was the first time she really cried in front of me. She has cried before but usually would go to another room or hide her face until she calmed down b/c she didn't want me to see. She was quite and I wasn't talking, just waiting for her. She eventually said that if I wanted an answer she didn't have one for me. I just said ok and she headed to the bathroom so I turned the TV back on. When she came back the rest of the night was nice, we watched TV, talked and laughed, and interacted with the kids. When her and the kids went to bed she sent me a text saying, "I had a good night tonight thanks". I replied, "Me too. Sleep well."



Well, I had found out from a mutual friend on Fri that she was planning on looking at apartments today. Last night she had asked to use the car and I said I'd give a ride b/c I'm not 100% on what is going on either. She was kind of upset at first but agreed b/c otherwise she would be walking the kids to school. This morning she starts getting on my case in the car about my driving, I put my foot down and said that I didn't have to give her a ride and we weren't going back to the way things were where she got free reign of everything.

I'm standing my ground on some things b/c I am in limbo as AnotherStander says. I'm ready to move on if that's the case so I'm going to protect myself but I'm trying to compromise. There was some texting about the morning drive but I refused to get sucked into defending myself and getting into a fight. She then asked if we wrote up a paper if I would loan her some money and I told her I would think about it. During all this, the mutual friend tells me how she is out looking at an apartment and how nice it is and how good it would be for the kids.

I then asked if she had a ride to her class tomorrow and she said she did, just didn't know what she was doing with the kids. I then offered to let her borrow the car and she asked if I was sure and I said yes.

[MrBond]

Again, have the two of you ever thought of actual counseling?

[jzoom]

I have and I have remembered your idea about trying to find a church that would offer it free. I have not brought up the subject with her though, I'm not sure how to do it.

Last night we talked and the first thing I did was rip up the notice to leave the house and told her that I don't want her and the kids to go but I understand if they decide to. I told her how I once I met her and the kids I felt like I finally had a family and that I know I messed everything up, that it basically all boiled down to me not making them feel wanted. I told her that we are both strong intelligent people and I know we will be ok if we don't stay together but that I think we could have a strong relationship if we do stay together. I told her that I understand it's something she has to want, that I can't force it.

She told me that ripping up those papers was a step in the right direction, that she didn't feel rushed now. She then started telling me about her reservations about commiting to working on the relationship, how she has to think of the kids first always. She's leaving everything in limbo, she won't say yes or no to working on things. That she doesn't understand how I changed so quickly from even yesterday morning. She said she just doesn't know what to think and wonders if I'll just keep acting the same old way. She told me her hurts, especially the things hurting from Thur. We both agreed that we got rushed into living together and we have both had the thought that maybe her moving out and us working on the relationship might be better but we aren't sure.

Throughout, I just acknoweldged her. I looked at her and listened and just took it in. When she was quite for a little while I asked if there was anything else like that she needed or wanted to talk about and she said no. So I took the opportunity to do a 180 and ask her about her day. We chatted about our days and I told her about work, something I haven't done in awhile without her pulling my teeth. We talked more like old times until she was ready to get to bed.

This morning, I got up before her and the kids and cooked bacon for everybody. I made hot chocolate for the kids. She was a bit put off by the hot chocolate b/c they were taking forever with it and she wanted to get going. She said thanks but not to do it again and I just nodded. She didn't have anything herself but before she left she did thank me for everything I did that morning and I just said you're welcome and wished her and the kids a good day.

I had to stop at Wal-Mart before work and as I was heading towards checkout saw her coming in to get stuff for the baby. She said that she had gotten a lot done that morning and we talked just a little.

She won't tell me, but I know she's applying for housing assistance and looking at apartments. I don't know what, if any, real impact my actions last night or this morning had. I figure that if she says she has an apartment and is moving out my best bet is to, as positively as I can, say, "that's great, I'm sure you and the kids will be comfortable and happy there."


So yeah, I'd love to bring up counseling with her. Tell her that we could try and find a church that would do it for free. I just don't know how, or if, I should.

[jzoom]

She had asked me to help her pay some bills if she writes up a paper to pay me back. I just texted her and told her I should be able to help out.

I then texted, "Got my own question, and I know you're still really unsure about stuff, if I could find some free relationship counseling through a church or something would you be willing to give it a try with me?"

Response, "No sorry I don't like stuff like that. Thanks so much :-)"

[jzoom]

I've read through most of 5LL now. My thought is that anybody who finds DB should probably read 5LL right away as well.

I feel really confused b/c I feel in this gray area between LRT and needing to do consistent 180's. I feel like I need the detachment of LRT for if I went to far, hurt her too much, and she's just going to be leaving soon but I feel like me having become distant, rather than doing positive 180's, perpetuated the problems.

So far the best I've figured out is to remain calm and non-emotional in regards to her possibly leaving, especially since I went to the extreme and I've given her the ILYBINILWY talk. Then I figure 180's in the right direction, like the nice chat we had after the serious talk last night, and "Acts of Service" b/c it seems that's her primary love language.

I don't know......

[MrBond]

You've got to be the level headed one. Right now you gave her back the power which you don't want. Tell her that it would help both of you to work on your communications by going to C. How much money does she contribute? If you have insurance through work, you'll be able to find an affordable counseler.

Try not to mix up the advice you get here with the "alpha" advice you get on the other site. Texting her that you want to "c*m" all over her probably wouldn't be best right now.

[jzoom]

She contributes $0 and neither of us have insurance. Right, the alpha advice is what made me go nuts (not blaming ppl, I know it was my choice) and get it to this point.

My thought process is that I went all "super-scary-alpha" and with that whole alpha/beta balance thing my only possibly saving grace is to be beta for awhile. Definitely not saying anything sexual to her at all.

So, I don't want to "push" counseling and be pushy about her giving me a decision. Thinking about DB it's about waiting, making changes in yourself, and hopefully your SO changes as well. I'm not going to let myself become needy and clingy and scared of losing her, not going to turn it into the time she gave me the ILYBINILWY talk where I was devestated. Anytime it comes up about her possibly leaving me/moving out I'm just going to go, "ok, I understand" and leave it at that. The rest of the time I'm going to go back to my 180's/goals the best I can in this sitch.

Best I can figure so far...