Acceptance - My next challenge.

[chatterbug]

There are two type of people on this forum Arsene.

Those who seek out others in the same boat. They figure out what side of the boat that they are on. They look for people who will validate and offer hugs and support of Yea just be patient, Your doing well. Keep up the good work. Look the wayward is being nice to you so just stay this course. Yet you have just filled up the left side of the boat. So you row in a circle. Ever supporting ever moving forward yet always ending up in the same spot. When you get back to that spot you realize that some of the rowers have left so you seek out others in the same spot so you can carry on thinking your a good spouse by caring your burden and what ever you think their burden is. Around and around you go.

The there are others who realize that being nice and picking up crumbs is not a measurement of success. That doing what is right and difficult at times to move the boat forward is a far better path to take. A little support on the right to keep the path straight and a little questioning , soul searching , making difficult choices and realizing the goal they actually want.

Moving forward is the easier path.

Right now you are starting to distance yourself from anyone who does not see what you see, agree with what you think or who pushes you think differently.

Your goal has warped from : Being in a mutually exclusive marriage built on the pillars communication, trust , love , desire and friendship...

...to a place where you have a 5% of the time wife ( with no trust , true communication , love , desire or friendship ) and a part part time mother.. who gets her short little marriage in and then it is off to the OM again.

All your goals are to placate your wife and her continued adultery. None of them move you forward.

Unless your goal is to get back with your wife at the expense of yourself.

Why don't you take these difficult thoughts that people are giving you here and your goals to that IC who makes you uncomfortable.

Then when that is done ask her to work on or offer suggestions for you to grow out and move beyond being a victim.

This is not a 2x4 Arsene.

This is an observation based on a few years on forums such as this and basic human psychology.

I hope this post stings you so it will get you out of this place you have put your self in and built walls to keep you there. Or at least makes you put a darn window in one of the walls.

[Starsky309]

There are two type of people on this forum Arsene.

Those who seek out others in the same boat. They figure out what side of the boat that they are on. They look for people who will validate and offer hugs and support of Yea just be patient, Your doing well. Keep up the good work. Look the wayward is being nice to you so just stay this course. Yet you have just filled up the left side of the boat. So you row in a circle. Ever supporting ever moving forward yet always ending up in the same spot. When you get back to that spot you realize that some of the rowers have left so you seek out others in the same spot so you can carry on thinking your a good spouse by caring your burden and what ever you think their burden is. Around and around you go.

The there are others who realize that being nice and picking up crumbs is not a measurement of success. That doing what is right and difficult at times to move the boat forward is a far better path to take. A little support on the right to keep the path straight and a little questioning , soul searching , making difficult choices and realizing the goal they actually want.

Moving forward is the easier path.

Right now you are starting to distance yourself from anyone who does not see what you see, agree with what you think or who pushes you think differently.

Your goal has warped from : Being in a mutually exclusive marriage built on the pillars communication, trust , love , desire and friendship...

...to a place where you have a 5% of the time wife ( with no trust , true communication , love , desire or friendship ) and a part part time mother.. who gets her short little marriage in and then it is off to the OM again.

All your goals are to placate your wife and her continued adultery. None of them move you forward.

Unless your goal is to get back with your wife at the expense of yourself.

Why don't you take these difficult thoughts that people are giving you here and your goals to that IC who makes you uncomfortable.

Then when that is done ask her to work on or offer suggestions for you to grow out and move beyond being a victim.

This is not a 2x4 Arsene.

This is an observation based on a few years on forums such as this and basic human psychology.

I hope this post stings you so it will get you out of this place you have put your self in and built walls to keep you there. Or at least makes you put a darn window in one of the walls.

I have checked with my advisory staff, and asked if I'm allowed to give "5 Whistles." Unfortunately, we have pretty strict standards here at the home office, so . . .





Don't get mad at the sheepdogs, Aresene -- they bark the unpleasant truth that will save you, if you hear it.


Starsky

[ShockedOne]

Very wise info posted there from Chatter.

[Denver_2010]

Chatter makes some good points. I like the boat example and how people who come here do sometimes align themselves. I'm sure that I was guilty looking for people who would validate my opinions and beliefs too. I also agree that it isn't a good idea to do that. I would say that you want opinions from both sides of the spectrum.

Ultimately though, you have to decide for yourself. The problem though, lies in the fact that when we come here, and for quite a while afterwards, we are not a full capacity to necessarily see the forest from the trees and to make the best choices. Very rarely do I see a newbie come here and really look out for their own well being, think about their own future, think about what they really want in a marriage and in a partner. I did it too. It is much easier to see in hindsight and with others' situations.

I know that you have utilized a plan that I came up with for myself and tailored it to fit your situation. Those were my words though, so let me say a couple of things about it:

1) You have to understand that that plan was laid out really early in my situation. I was only beginning to understand what I needed to do to be successful with both, saving my M and saving myself.

2) The first point of that plan contains no boundaries. I hadn't set any at that time. It had been only a few weeks since I found out about PA, it was only a few weeks after I had come out of a period of almost complete darkness with my W (so we had had a period of space from one another), my W was telling me that she was interested in reconciling when I made the plan, and finally, I didn't understand the necessity of having a boundary. It turns out, that I did not understand that my W would continue to have contact with OM as long as I did not have a boundary with consequences attached. Why would she stop? She had no incentive. She felt that she could investigate reconiliation with me, and also still keep OM in her life at the periphery as her plan B.

You know what my W told me just a week or so before I made that plan? She asked me how I would feel if she remained friends with OM. She said that if things didn't work out between she and I, that she would probably give him a chance. She admitted that she was keeping him as plan B!! LOL. I don't think that I ever posted that here, or told anyone what she told me. This is the first time.

So I faced the choice that many of us here face, 1) make a tough choice and set a solid boundary and with that accept that it would probably mean that I would not be talking to or seeing my W (something that was very hard to consider), or 2) Choose to believe my W that she could actually work on 'us' while also remaining friends with OM. I chose #2. And I was wrong. My W was wrong. As long as OM was in the picture we had zero chance. She and I had baggage, OM carried none. OM had been providing all of her emotional needs, I hadn't done so in at least a year. It was the wrong choice.

So, although I agree with the basic tenant of the part of the plan, ie, OM does not matter, he wins if I let him etc. I DO think that I probably should have considered setting my boundary at that point. It wasn't until late May or early June when our first attempt at reconciling was totally blown to pieces that I finally did set the boundary to begin to protect myself.

and,

3) I still believe that I had a lot more ground to make up for than most LBS's do. You can read my posts where I have the 'come to jesus' talk with myself about all of the things that I had done to disrespect my wife, emotionally abuse her at times, and ultimately drive her away. I had A LOT of ground to make up for. My point, I probably needed to suffer through what I did in order to give my W a couple of months to see that I could be different... not that our M could be different, that happened later. But that I was actually a nice guy.

I don't see the same thing in your sitch Arsene. Your W knows that you are a good guy and that you are capable of treating her well. She is simply not choosing you. Right now.

I think that there is a difference. And it is why I probably sometimes seem to give advice that is somewhat contrary to what I actually did at times. Not just with you, but with others here on the boards.

With you, I simply think that you need to create a space between you and your W so that she can see what her life looks like without you. So that she can get OM out of her system. And so that she can learn to miss you. And THAT is something that my W and I had at the very beginning of our S.

That's just my thought. You are the captain of your ship and need to set the course that you think is right for you.

[TD35]

Turn those around so they focus on what you can do and it will be attainable.

I agree with LA here. The goals are for you and about you. These may be desired outcomes but you can only control you, fix you and improve you. This is hard. I had to rewrite mine several times to get the focus back on me.

[breakdownbill]

Cutter I can see Arsene's sitch for what it is, because it's so easy when it's not your own.

Not so long ago I had a wobble when I listened to opinions that did not serve my goals.

I think Arsene needs to ask himself quite rightly as you put it, at what cost to yourself will you continue to accept this level of betrayal, disrespect and emotional abuse (ok they are my words), to stay in this M.

Sometimes the best advice hurts the most friend.

I've met a few people at the school I've been working at, who have gone through what we are living through and come out the other side much happier and stronger.

Only 1 of those is back with their wayward spouse and that was after a split of 2 yrs and he was denied access to his 2 kids during that time.

The best advice he gave me was that a bit like when you are in an emergency you have to save yourself before you can help others.

Right now you are strong enough to be there for D8 at the expense of yourself, you are slowly being ground down.

Short term pain can sometimes mean long term gains and happiness.

Take some time out to reflect on your sitch, re-read it from start to now and ask yourself what you want.

Have a good weekend and do something just for you mate and post it here.

Bill

[roughenough]

there are others who realize that being nice and picking up crumbs is not a measurement of success. That doing what is right and difficult at times to move the boat forward is a far better path to take. A little support on the right to keep the path straight and a little questioning , soul searching , making difficult choices and realizing the goal they actually want.

^^^^^^ What a great post. BTW Arsene, I've mentioned it before, have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? The title's somewhat misleading because it's not about being a jerk. I dont know if it's fitting for you but it's a really good read! Just a quick Google search and the entire ebook comes up, for free!

[tori2012]

This advice has helped me, too. Thank you, all.

[Arsene]

I like your overall plan and goals, but I'm not sure making goals for other people (I'd like W to...)is a good way to get to where you want to be.

Turn those around so they focus on what you can do and it will be attainable.

Good luck.

Thanks Labug,

As seen below, I wasn't sure about that either but I followed Bond's advice on this and wrote these "Relationship goals" as oppose to "personal" goals.

"I have been reluctant to set goals which include some sort of feed back or reaction from my wife."

This is what DBing is all about. You have to set goals.

"I have seen some of these written by others but i feel that my wife is too unpredictable for me to make proper assessment of what is working and not working."

That's why it's all trial and error. Not everything you do is going to work, but you never know until you try. This is just your fear talking. Do you honestly think that everyone who made goals had a "predictable" spouse?

I used DR and Zig's thread to help me write them and I guess the way it's written includes what I need to do to achieve it.

The point is, I've achieved them, somewhat.

[Arsene]

Thanks everyone,

You are all giving me a lot to think about. I guess if one person tells you you're a fool yo can let it go but if everyone does you have to stop and listen, so I have.

I've been reading DR over and over and I feel that what I am doing now is totally in line with DB principles when it comes to affairs except that perhaps I'm still way too available to W and that is why I said yesterday I would definitely back off.

According to MWD, the thing to do "When she won't end the affair" (p. 214) is to revert to LRT. This is where I'm at now.

Step 1 - Stop the chase - Done
Step 2 - Get a Life - Still on-going and getting better everyday
Step 3 - Wait and watch - Well, I'm now getting the second response from my W (p. 129) and following MWD's advice at the top of page 130 (most of the time but backing off now will rectify that)

Now, what you guys seem to be advocating is the "After the Last Resort Technique" (p. 218) and although I see the value of it, I'm not yet ready to implement it. I feel that there is still a lot I can do at this stage. I still haven't reached the "point where they (I) decide that enough is enough" and I am not yet "prepared to end my marriage" which is one of the warnings MWD gives about using that technique.

With regards to setting boundaries? I'll have to think about that. I've received totally different advice from 25 and although I hear what CB says, "I'm looking for people who will validate and offer hugs and support of Yea just be patient, Your doing well. Keep up the good work. Look the wayward is being nice to you so just stay this course", 25's opinion is quite respectable and her wisdom and experience undeniable.

I'm sorry guys. You might think I'm pig-headed and refuse to see the light, and maybe I am. I have the utmost respect for all of you, even if and especially because you have different opinions. These opinions from extremes of the spectrum keep me on my toes and stop me from being complacent. They offer a perspective that I can not see from my present situation (in the forest) but which challenges my thoughts and beliefs on a daily basis, allowing me to make the decisions I make with the knowledge that they are not solely based on my way of thinking.

Looking at your comments has forced me to look deeply into what I'm doing and to question my reasons for doing it. This in turn is giving me the confidence to do it, knowing I have considered other viewpoints and that this is the best thing for my situation for the time being.

I hope this makes sense and that you don't give up on me. Your words have been truly helpful today.