Acceptance - My next challenge.

[roughenough]

That’s a good question Arsene. I understand the importance of being her friend but look, I see a couple challenges with spending that much time with her. First off, she’s with OM, remember boundaries? We've also talked about the importance of having them miss us and creating some “mystery.” Finally, spending time with her is emotionally taxing on YOU. It’s a reminder of the old days and I just think it would cause a lot of pain. So I would tend to side on LESS CONTACT. I know I am only answering your question in a round about way but that’s my 2 cents, I am sure others will chime in.

[Denver_2010]

I almost feel like I'm seeing her too much but other than the immigration thing, I don't initiate or encourage anything. She's been initiating convos and sticking around the house. Should I make up some reason to leave if this happens again?

I think that you are right Arsene. But I've been saying that for a while with you. Read Rough's post above. You are not giving your W any opportunity to miss you, miss having you there for her... because you are always there. It doesn't matter who is initiating it, IMO. She needs space away from you to truly know what she wants. Whether she knows it or not... again, IMHO.

I also agree with the boundaries thing.

[tori2012]

My 2 cents, Arsene, is to find a middle ground to deal with this. On the one side, you want to have a chance to show your W what she's missing, so time together is good. On the other side, you do want to keep her guessing and to miss you, plus the boundary must remain clear.

Maybe you should be with her some of the times she intiates the meeting, and then really be happy and upbeat and all the great things you are. But don't say yes to everything. Be busy sometimes. Tell her, "I'd love to spend time with you--or whatever it is she wants to do--but I've got to go. How about meeting on this day?" Or plainly say, "Oh, sorry, but I've got to run. We'll chat more next time." This way you have more control.

Hope this helps...

[NLW]

This is all good advice Arsene, but I just wanted to let you know that i understand how hard it is to say no to some contact with your W.

It's killing, I know, and sometimes leads to a short-term display of pulling away by the WAS.

Just be prepared for that. But remember the importance of trying something different. Being stuck in limbo is no fun.

[Denver_2010]

My 2 cents, Arsene, is to find a middle ground to deal with this. On the one side, you want to have a chance to show your W what she's missing, so time together is good. On the other side, you do want to keep her guessing and to miss you, plus the boundary must remain clear.

What is the boundary then? And the consequences for breaching the boundary?

I get what you are saying Tori, and I absolutely know how difficult it is to turn down time the WAW. I struggled with it more than I care to remember. But looking back? I think that there were absolutely times when I made myself too available. My W was running over me even when she was respecting the boundary that I had put in place. I refused to be an active part of her life when she wasn't respecting that boundary.

I honestly believe that the WAW will see the changes through incidental contact and, later, when more contact can be justified and respectable. In my case, a period of almost complete darkness helped a lot. It was the space and the time away from me that started to turn things around in her head.

[tori2012]

You've got a point, Denver. A few months ago, I would've never kept contact with my H if he were still with the OW. But everyone is different...
So my question to Arsene is, what exactly is your boundary? What is your bottom line? If it is "absolutely no contact with OP or you're out of my life," then definitely follow through. If that's not it, then reassess what your next steps will be.

[Arsene]

Thanks guys,

I guess it's almost unanimous then. I need to give her more space, whether she wants it or not. The thing about the boundary, as you all know, I haven't set any yet, unless you count me asking her not to meet OM while with D8 a boundary but to me it was just a request as there is no way I can know she is doing it and if she was there is nothing I can do about it.

I'm probably justifying myself here but from my perspective, this is creating confusion in her. She is now experiencing communication with me in a way she never has, and I am learning things about her that I never knew.

It almost feels like when we initially met and we shared stuff about each other's lives, except that I only chime in a bit this time around. She does the lion's share of the talking while I listen and she seems so eager to share, about anything.

I know that I asked you for advice and you were kind enough to give it but I'm reminded here of something that I read recently on someone's sitch and it said something like: "be the man your wife would have an affair with". I know I'm seeing too much into all of this but it almost feels like my W is starting an EA with me .

I think I'll start getting busier and less available little by little and see what happens. Right now I don't want to stop this too abruptly and cause waves.

In any event, she might get cold feet herself and start pulling away. It wouldn't be the first time she does that.

Thanks for your comments and advice. It make good sense and it's definitely counter-intuitive right now.

[Denver_2010]

You've got a point, Denver. A few months ago, I would've never kept contact with my H if he were still with the OW. But everyone is different...
So my question to Arsene is, what exactly is your boundary? What is your bottom line? If it is "absolutely no contact with OP or you're out of my life," then definitely follow through. If that's not it, then reassess what your next steps will be.

Agreed. I still don't really see a cogent plan Arsene. It seems your strategy is simply wait for 2 years and see what happens.

[Arsene]

Agreed. I still don't really see a cogent plan Arsene. It seems your strategy is simply wait for 2 years and see what happens.

Well if you add to that to become the best person I can be and get a great life for myself in the meantime, you're bang on Denver .

As everyone says all the time, there is nothing one can do to stop WAS from seeing OP.

Now many people suggest setting boundaries saying that they are for oneself, but sometimes it seems to me that they are saying that it's the only way to get WAS away from OP. I find all of this to be a bit contradictory.

The boundaries are for me, right? They are supposed to protect me from pain and worry. Boundaries, as I understand them, are not intended to manipulate W into leaving the OM, or doing anything else for that matter. So basically, as long as I can live with what is going on (and I'm not saying I can do that forever - some days are easier than others), the word remains "patience". I may be totally wrong on this mate. I don't know.

Now some boundaries I will try to set in the future might include her not openly texting OM in our company/during family days because it affects me for some reasons.

I feel like I do have a plan Denver, and item one of that plan of action which I borrowed from you , stipulates the following:

1.OM does not matter. He wins if I let him. That means if I let his presence in my situation get to me, he wins. I cannot show W that I am bothered if she tells me that she has or is going to have contact with OM.<--I would set a boundary on this last item - I don't want her to talk to me about him unless it's to tell me she's dumping him --> I cannot control whether or not W chooses to have contact with him. I need to accept that. He wins ONLY IF I LET HIM.

I totally agree with this. OM doesn't matter.

Over three weeks ago, I was prompted by Bond to work on a list of "relationship goals" I posted the following on Zig's Goalsetting thread.

1. I'd like my W to occasionally contact me just to chat or ask how I am (I never initiate contact and whenever she does, it's always about D8 or some sort of logistical issue)

a)I'll achieve this by making sure she is comfortable and relaxed when ever she's around me.

b)I'll know this is happening because she might start by being more personal in her D8/logistics correspondence.

**She has started adding more personal stuff in her texts and even last night, she sent me a text at 1:15 (about 30 minutes after she left the house, when we had a good convo) just to crack a joke and wish me good night, after having spent 1 1/2 hours talking with me.

2.I'd like my W to open up and talk about her feelings.

a)I'll achieve this by listening and validating wheneve she does open up about anything. Goal 3 will also help her relax more in my company and perhaps help her open up.

b)I'll know this is happening because she might just start by talking a bit more about her life at the moment, work, friends, family.

**Well, since our R talk last Sunday (during which she opened up an awful lot), we've had 2 convos where she totally opened up about her life and her feelings

3.I'd like my W to feel more comfortable when we're together.

a)I'll achieve this by being consistently upbeat and cheerful when she's around and by refraining from judging her, criticizing her and making her feel guilty. I'll also need to appear detached as to not seem pursuing/pressuring.

b)I'll know this is happening because she might laugh more and not be so tense and cold when she's around.

**This has also happened. We talk, we laugh and there is definitely a sense that she is relaxed around me. At the same time, I've also relaxed around her and I no longer feel like I'm walking on egg shells.

4.I'd like my W to start working on herself (IC, meditation, yoga, anything really)

a)I'll achieve this by showing consistent improvement in my behaviour and by occasionally sharing information about my meditation classes.

b)I'll know this is happening because she might ask me even more about my meditation classes and I think she would be more relaxed and less angry.

Over the last few weeks, I've seen baby steps (and much bigger ones) in goals 1, 2 and 3. In my book, that means something I am doing is working.

Having said all of that, I have to admit that the many sitches I have read over the last few months (including yours Denver) have taught me not to get overly excited at the first sign of progress so I try hard not to get carried away. I will simply continue with this plan for another 90 days, as suggested by 25, and re-assess where I stand then. In the meantime, I will follow your advice and back off a bit, as stipulated in item 2 of the plan.

2. Back off - Reduce amount of initiating contact with W. Don't always answer her phone calls immediately. Don't always answer her text messages right away. Don't jump to hang out with her all of the time.

Does this make sense Denver? Or do I still sound like I don't have a plan? I don't know mate. Sometimes I think I know what I have to do and then I come on here and get the feeling that I'm messing things up.

Thanks for your time mate. I always appreciate hearing from you.

[labug]

I like your overall plan and goals, but I'm not sure making goals for other people (I'd like W to...)is a good way to get to where you want to be.

Turn those around so they focus on what you can do and it will be attainable.

Good luck.