(the full story will be multiple posts. I ask that you help me with my situation. Thank you.)
Part 1 Hello all,
I originally posted in the newcomers forum newcomers forum when I recently and abruptly realized that there were severe problems with my marriage, and gained some great insight from people there.
Since then I have read through 5 Love Languages and DR which were recommended to me there. They were great and eye opening and I only wish I knew about them sooner.
I am now entering this forum because there is an infidelity component to my M issues and I feel that the best advice and information I could receive would be from those “who have been there”. I hope this post does not become too long, but I feel I have to give the most accurate information in order to receive the best advice.
I had lost my job a few years ago and was able to find a new one, but not doing what I would have liked. I was taken for granted there and payed substantially less. Just prior to the job loss we tried to have a child, through medical aid as there are issues, and that failed. This was the genesis of the big problems as we each withdrew instead of talking about what was happening. She did have a close family member in which she confided (more on this later), but I was alone. These feelings grew worse for me and I entered depression as I only wanted to make enough money to try for children again and lost focus on what was truly important to me, which is my wife.
We became emotionally separated and things felt worse. I tried to communicate on certain occasions, but in all the wrong ways (thanks to 5LL I now know). I knew something was just not right, and finally figured out that my W had had an affair for the last few months. It started as her searching to fill the emotional void and then the physical (we had been sparsely intimate over the last number of months). This combined with the fact that I didn’t like who I was anymore prompted me to do a lot of soul searching and to make profound changes (this is before I read the DR book). Her close relative knows what is going on and the support of it completely falls under the “Biased shoulder” description from DR.
My W does not know I know about the affair. But my finding out about it was the low point that forced me into action. We sat down the following day and I apologized for my past behaviours that I know she didn’t like. We spent that day together and it was amazing. We discussed a lot of things and she was emotional as I expected. I told her that I have changed because I didn’t like the person I became (which is who/what drove her away from me, I am owning it). She also shared with me things she wanted me to change and I have also added those, but a lot of my own self implemented changes were (I now know) complete 180s as described in DR. During our discussion she never mentioned divorce, but that “it might be too little, too late”. I asked her not to think like that. She also said that if “she didn’t still love me, she would not still be here”. I also tried to stress to her that we have to be completely honest with each other about everything moving forward and that I was still in this marriage 100% and that I never wanted to do anything to lose her. She said she needed time to process this. Understood.
I suggested we go away that weekend. Just us. She jumped at the offer and we reconnected. I was hoping that she would show some affection towards me, but was not expecting the level of intimacy and passion we shared both nights. I thought this was a good sign. We also had another previously planned trip the following weekend and that went very well. In the mean time she has mentioned that she is enjoying the changes and has noticed them. She even said that I am a completely different person than the one she had become used to. And just yesterday she commented that something I did just might have been the sweetest thing I have ever done for her. And our communication has been getting better day by day.
We actually have another trip (planned a while ago) for this weekend, but she is excited about it and we are making plans for doing things at this destination. I have kept up the changes and have not backslid at all.
The problems I now face and need advice about are these: We have not really had another big discussion since the one I initiated. We did talk briefly about some lighter relationship issues, but she told me that she is the type to internalize and that she does not want to cause conflict. This comes at the detriment of talking openly with me. A huge frustration for me. I feel that we cannot move forward until she also commits to US as I have, and I feel that this cannot happen until the affair is exposed. She did ask me one day what the catalyst was for the discussion and I told her it was several things, but did not mention my thinking she had an affair (did I drop the ball here?). I felt she should be the one to bring it up.
She has only had online contact with the OM as he was going through his own turmoil (including current divorce proceedings), but I found out that they may be planning to get together next week. I was hoping the PA was at least over, and it would absolutely tear me apart knowing this was happening as I was sitting at work.
Another issue is that we have yet another trip planned for a full week after this encounter is to take place. Which according to the planning we have done is going to be fantastic and she is really looking forward to it, but I would be crushed knowing that a physical encounter just took place. The crazy thing is that she has been telling him lies about our situation for a bit of time, while still not admitting the A to me.
Now some of you will say that the snooping I have done is wrong, but it is in my nature to collect information to help me understand things. People will say I need to detach, but that was a cause of the problem to begin with. My W requested that I share more physical touch and time together, and to say those three words to her. I have and the response has been great.
As I mentioned before she will avoid conflict at all costs which is why I feel I need to be the one to bring up the thought that I think she is having an affair. I have enough evidence that would build a story without having to share anything that would have been a huge violation of trust. I would only share these lighter things if she flat out denies it, then these would pretty much need her to admit. I should say that I have come to peace with what had happened and I want to forgive my W for this, but can’t until she admits it. I really want to save this marriage (I know it can be stronger than before) and it appears that she does as well (but then I hear the mantra around here of believe nothing she says, and half she does).
I have read here about some confrontations that have been successful. I am open to all advice but I would like to hear from those who have been there and faced similar situations. I am willing to forgive and I want to move on, but I need her to know this. I would have an opportunity to bring something up tonight and again possibly one time during our trip, and then maybe before this supposed encounter. Possibly asking how her processing is going or if she has any questions about our discussion? I know again several of you might say to never do this, but not all solutions will work with all people, and I really think I will need to initiate again.
I kindly ask this great community for help and guidance. I will monitor for responses and hope to have a good continuous dialogue with the community, as I feel that this is somewhat time sensitive.
Perhaps now is not a time to be reading about the 5 LL's and you should be reading up on what your rights are where your located if you D.
Then you should decided if a PA is a deal breaker for you.
If it is. Follow the path and D in a civil and respectable manor.
If it is not. Then learn about personal non-negotiable boundaries.
Then when your up for it.
Sit your wife down and explain them to her. Do not show proof. Do not tell her she cannot go be with OM. Do not tell her that your going to be the lighthouse that shines for years to come.
You explain that you know what is going on. That there is no use lying about the adultery. That you want this and this and this in a marriage. That you are offering this and this and this in a marriage. This is what you want. She is free to choose that marriage or to D and go be with the OM. There will be no R talks while there is a 3rd person in our marriage.
Then end the conversation. Back away. Start parallel paths. Path one is DB'ing Path 2 is Plan D.
And no you do not explain the paths to her. You just state your boundaries and then you live within them.
How long it takes to get here is your choice.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
Perhaps now is not a time to be reading about the 5 LL's and you should be reading up on what your rights are where your located if you D.
Then you should decided if a PA is a deal breaker for you.
If it is. Follow the path and D in a civil and respectable manor.
If it is not. Then learn about personal non-negotiable boundaries.
Then when your up for it.
Sit your wife down and explain them to her. Do not show proof. Do not tell her she cannot go be with OM. Do not tell her that your going to be the lighthouse that shines for years to come.
You explain that you know what is going on. That there is no use lying about the adultery. That you want this and this and this in a marriage. That you are offering this and this and this in a marriage. This is what you want. She is free to choose that marriage or to D and go be with the OM. There will be no R talks while there is a 3rd person in our marriage.
Then end the conversation. Back away. Start parallel paths. Path one is DB'ing Path 2 is Plan D.
And no you do not explain the paths to her. You just state your boundaries and then you live within them.
How long it takes to get here is your choice.
BINGO. That's precisely how it's done. Calm, loving and forcefully. LEADING.
As I am a bit newer to this site, I would like to know if you each have successfully saved your marriages, etc. This would help me understand where you are coming from a bit.
As I tried to express, the past PA is not a deal breaker to me as far as saving the marriage. I have come to terms with it and although it does hurt at times still, I do want to move forward. But to me, this means she and I, the two of us, hence my comment that I feel we cant move on until the A is exposed and she states to me that she wants to work on us.
Should I just google personal non-negotiable boundaries or can you direct me somewhere?
This may be answered by reading aobut the above, but I should tell her that I know there is an A, but then not offer proof if asked? Should I need to counter if she denies it?
And forgive me for confronting here, but it seems that this advise jumps straight to an ultimatum "She is free to choose that marriage or to D and go be with the OM", am I understanding this properly?
One additional comment, reading 5LL was a huge help for me in creating and understanding what I did wrong in the past number of years. It also has helped me to understand what my wife wanted and I wasn't providing on the emotional side of things.
As I said in the OP there has been acknowledgements by her of my changes and I feel that these would not have been so profound without my reading that book.
I will write more later when I'm on a regular keyboard, but yes -- I successfully saved my marriage, five years ago. My wife had an affair, and applying these/DB principles ended her affair after just three (albeit horrible) months. There are, of course, no guarantees.
You can find my sitch by searching for my recently started thread called "Transparency."
You're confusing "ultimatums" and "boundaries." Don't feel bad -- most people do. I'll try to find you something good that explains the crucial difference.
One additional comment, reading 5LL was a huge help for me in creating and understanding what I did wrong in the past number of years. It also has helped me to understand what my wife wanted and I wasn't providing on the emotional side of things.
As I said in the OP there has been acknowledgements by her of my changes and I feel that these would not have been so profound without my reading that book.
It's a phenomenal book. It's in my personal "Top 3" that I recommend to people. I think what 'bug is trying to tell you is that IT'S NOT TIME TO BE APPLYING IT YET. Learn for yourself, yes, but to try to apply these principles while your wife is still actively in an affair would be fruitless at best, and enabling at worst.
IF the PA is not a deal breaker for you, then I would agree with cutters approach.
Quote:
I feel we cant move on until the A is exposed and she states to me that she wants to work on us.
I think you answered your own question above. YOU FEEL as if you cannot move foward unless the A is exposed.
Personally, I would take a slightly differnt approach, especially since you seem to be making progress, I would schedule your next date/trip at the same time she is slated to be with OM. IF she cancel the trip with OM, well then that should tell you something, especially if it is followed with her ending it on her own with OM, which will require some level of snooping but in your case, I think knowing is probably the best way to db it. If she does not end it with OM after your trip, then I would, when it makes sense for YOU, confront her.
In terms of how to confront her, I think Cutter and Starsky are SPOT on in terms of how to do it!
That's my 2 cents.
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
