Thanks for being there for me Denver, I am leaving to meet W at a parent teacher conference. She might bring it up then. Note to self. Tread carefully and be VERY wise with my words. Listen and make sure to validate.
Just listen and gather information about where she is. She can change her mind and she can have mixed feelings (as you do).
Don't expect clarity from her, let alone this fast.
MANAGE YOUR CONDUCT/WORDS. And do not be the one to bring it up. IF she says nothing, I'd drop it.
If you must have an answer, wait til that's literally true (like the deadline) and then ask if she got an email you sent. If she says "No" then you re-send or re-cap what it said. And then back off so she can ponder it.
Don't put in the "last opportunity" b/c I think Retrovaille adds that in for generic purposes. You guys are talking about piecing (not in those words but more or less), in the sense that there are probes and some mutual interest in the other's thought processes and changes.
So there's no need, IMO, to act as if THIS CHOICE is going to be the "last chance for the marriage". It's not.
We think It's among the best chances, but we don't know if the timing is perfect and you may reconcile without going.
I can tell you that your best chance of reconciling AND restoring the marriage (i.e., it lasting) rests in you getting the tools you both need. Otherwise you'll be back here in a year or so. (No offense but if you don't make changes in how you relate to each other, = measurable noticeable changes, why would you believe that staying together is more likely than before?)
Retrovaille is a means toward getting the tools, & it is far more efficient than most MCs meeting you weekly could ever be.
But neither of you seems to know how to begin talking safely, w/the other.
You are so nervous (do not let FEAR Rule your life) it's hard for you to take the lead.
If she says yes she got it, just let her know there's a deadline for responding.
So no pressure but hey, if she's interested, she can let you know by...um, dinner time? 8 pm? (Whatever you NEED to make the deadline). Do not expect an answer right then and there if she's not had time to think about it.
If it is yes she got it, but remains silent you back off . You probe for information while assuring her that it's no dealbreaker, you just thought it sounded like a good way to start communicating better and you know YOU need to work on that... Make sense?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thanks 25. You said we need to get the tools or we will be back here in a year. That makes sense, I agree. I had a good meeting with the IC, she’s a PHD, knows her stuff, she’s done all the clinical training. She really likes the Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, I believe the writer’s done a lot of real life lab research. She was explaining the 3 different kind of interactions. Positive, distant and I think the last one was mean. To nobody’s surprise, the couples with the most positive interactions had the best relationships. I am sure it’s probably a good read but 5 LL is more of a priority read for me.
The parent conference went well. I was really proud of S8, he’s getting really good grades. Sure there’s area for improvement but for the most part it was very positive. Our separation has been really tough on him. I’ve always instilled the importance of family so all of this has hurt him a lot. I’ve mentioned before, our bond is amazing, I just love that kid so much.
We kept most of the focus on S8. W was civil but it was evident that she was a bit cold and standoffish. Right before we left W said she got my email and she would prefer to go to the joint counselor instead and she will respond to my email. I didn't give her any pressure, I just simply stated, “no problem.”
I think all of you were right, the timing’s off. I am still glad I asked, it was worth a shot. I don't want to push the issue much because that wouldn't be good for anyone, at this stage anyway. To be honest, I don’t think we are even close to any form of piecing. Maybe that’s just my insecurities creeping in but I am not expecting an email full of I love you’s, that’s for sure. Yes, I have hope but things sure feel bleak today.
Rough: Be PROUD of your "no problem" response. It took a lot to have that interaction.
Look at the positives here: She still wants to work on SOMETHING with you and the JC! There are an awful lot of people on these boards that would be thrilled to hear that.
Thanks 25. You said we need to get the tools or we will be back here in a year. That makes sense, I agree. I had a good meeting with the IC, she’s a PHD, knows her stuff, she’s done all the clinical training. She really likes the Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, I believe the writer’s done a lot of real life lab research. She was explaining the 3 different kind of interactions. Positive, distant and I think the last one was mean. To nobody’s surprise, the couples with the most positive interactions had the best relationships. I am sure it’s probably a good read but 5 LL is more of a priority read for me.
The parent conference went well. I was really proud of S8, he’s getting really good grades. Sure there’s area for improvement but for the most part it was very positive. Our separation has been really tough on him. I’ve always instilled the importance of family so all of this has hurt him a lot. I’ve mentioned before, our bond is amazing, I just love that kid so much.
We kept most of the focus on S8. W was civil but it was evident that she was a bit cold and standoffish. Right before we left W said she got my email and she would prefer to go to the joint counselor instead and she will respond to my email. I didn't give her any pressure, I just simply stated, “no problem.”
I think all of you were right, the timing’s off. I am still glad I asked, it was worth a shot. I don't want to push the issue much because that wouldn't be good for anyone, at this stage anyway. To be honest, I don’t think we are even close to any form of piecing. Maybe that’s just my insecurities creeping in but I am not expecting an email full of I love you’s, that’s for sure. Yes, I have hope but things sure feel bleak today.
First of all, you don't know if things are bleak. You'd be mind reading if you are concluding what is in your W's head right now.
Even if it is negative, I'm here to tell you that it can change in a NY minute. Have you READ my story!? Things looked 'bleak' many, many times. Hell, even though I am in piecing, they will probably look bleak again someday. Who knows. We never know what the future holds.
My point is that you shouldn't be focusing on that. You should be focusing completely on YOU, YOUR plan moving forward, how YOU are going to interact with you W whenever you have contact with her, and YOUR 180's. YOU, YOU, YOU. That is all that you control.
I still think that you may have made some progress in the past few days. You have opened the door to reestablishing a true contact with your W. Let's see how she responds. I say that the ball is in her court. For now, you sit back and do your thing.
And no, you are no where close to piecing. You are right about that. You would not have been even had she agreed to go to retrovaille. It's okay though. Your sitch still really isn't all that old.
What you do know is that the turkey is not ready to come out of the oven.
Keep plugging away Rough. You are doing great.
Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
change your name to "Tough" and start getting a bit more thick skinned. Don't let every single interaction be GREAT/WONDERFUL... or HORRIBLE and BLEAK...
you're making it more of a roller coaster than it has to be.
Back off the Retrovaille obviously now.
But as for what your c suggested you read, READ THEIR assignments FIRST since you are there. We are not trying to pull you from that. Read both books. Neither are that draining, as neither is a huge novel. (It's not ":War & Peace")
I say this b/c you are going in too many directions and confusing yourself.
Your IC's words are solution based as she wants to steer your interactions towards the positive, which Retrovaille totally reinforces (and 5 LLs are ways of doing that) and which you both need...
but you can read 5 LL's in one or two evenings.
Stop all the mind reading and thinking it's "analysis".
It's getting you into "paralysis by analysis" and you need to back way way off
and just be there for your kids now. Let things settle down.
You have school work to help him with, and a d, right? How is SHE?
And you have some serious GAL and your own personal work. That's enough for now.
Don't worry about WHETHER SHE is doing work or thinking or feeling anything.
Like we suggested for you at Retrovaille, do YOUR stuff nowl, and do not take the temperature or wonder about HER so much. Leave her alone and do your own thing. Create SOME mystery!
Nothing cools a relationship more than someone constantly taking its' temperature.
IF this is too much of a challenge, ask your T for an appointment with an MD b/c I think your anxiety level is so high you may get yourself into trouble with your wife. Anti anxiety meds are designed to keep you from blurting out a damaging comment or from obsessing, which hurts the m and keeps you stuck and at the moment you are in danger of too much obsessing.
Just be here now.
No shame in needing to see an MD. It's merely another tool in the arsenal. Avail yourself of all that you need.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thought I would do a little writing. Thanks for your words Denver and 25, they are posts I should revisit from time to time. Some of this stuff might seem like “no brainers” but as I like to say, I am perfectly imperfect.
We all learn at different speeds, my quest for growth has been a real eye opener. I guess I didn’t relize how many issues I really had. Confronting my shortcomings really hurts but it’s a necessary step I must take.
I’ve had my share of “issues.” Let’s face it, we all have, some of us more than others. I’am learning by nature women are “security seeking creatures” AND trust is EVERYTHING. I heard a saying recently, trust = lust. Trust can’t be established if I can’t be brutally honest with myself. Here's the point I am trying to make. Over the years Ive became less and less honest with myself. I would just hold everything in and act like everything was ok. Ive become very manipulative without realizing what I was doing. I don’t think I was very genuine and I am sure it was evident to others, including my W. Deep down I know my W is my best friend but over the last couple years of our marriage it sure didnt feel that way.
I am working on a “laying the cards on the table” approach. I am not saying this is the appropriate actions with W right NOW but I think it’s very important when it comes to my daily interactions with others. I just lost my “sense of self” over the years and it’s time for Rough to start shining again. I am a great guy, I know it. I need to stop focusing on pleasing others. I will probably be amazed at what I start to see when I interact with people at a more genuine level.
I am doing my best to take the focus off W. Things are back to the “somewhat businesslike” routine. For now, it might be for the best. I think the stuff I am talking about right now will help to establish a true connection with myself, maybe W or my next relationship. I am rambling here but that’s ok, hopefully I am making sense.
____________________________ Freshman class of 2012 Me(M):38 W:43 Together: 15 Married: 11 D:5 S:8 W wanted separation 5/5/12 Stopped living together 5/5/12
“Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude”. Thomas Jefferson
It sounds like you're starting to open your eyes on a few things. It's not always pretty in there but well worth the peek. You sound good mate. Keep it up!
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Thanks Arsene. Your right, I am doing slightly better and yes, I am opening my eyes to some things. I had a good run last night, took good care of myself. I need to get my exercise routine going again because I’ve been slacking recently, I am in pretty good shape but that’s no excuse.
Yes, taking the inward look isn’t very pretty. I am working on allowing others to accept me for who I am, being more down to earth. I know it’s cliché but it’s so true for me. Part of this means that I don’t need external validation.
As some of you know, I had one or two conversations with W within the last week. It was the first time in almost 5 months. It was time to take the temperature, so to speak. By doing so I might have given the impression I am “on the shelf.” I don’t regret having the dialog with her. I believe it sent her running a bit. You know, the whole push/pull thing. I used to receive brief texts and emails from W and those have stopped. Enough of this for now because there’s no need to have the focus on W. It’s just something I’ve noticed, that’s all.
Things looked 'bleak' many, many times. Hell, even though I am in piecing, they will probably look bleak again someday. Who knows. We never know what the future holds.