Hi, its been quiet tonight. W not mentioned guaranot again. She slept in separate bed last night. She has resorted to filling in social housing applications.
Spoke to OM ex W who suspects he left her cos of A with W. Feel a bit stupid now. He left about same time as W had confused feelings. There is no proof and I am not looking for any. But I have to assume that A is happening. It all clicks into place. W wld not admit to A cos her ex H left her because of A. She knows the anger that will cause with family etc hence why she has cut them off. I think the plan was to move out and then they can say it happened since!
How do I handle this going forwards. Not sure yet if A is a dealbreaker or not. Want to keep on the db path for now. OM ex W wants to confront her H.
Also wld appreciate opinions on is this going to ever happen for me given these last few days.
HAVE YOU READ THE DVI BUSTING OR DIV REMEDY BOOKS? B/C SOME OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS THE OPPOSITE OF DBing...
please read the book(s) asap.
Originally Posted By: rkyfat73
Hi, its been quiet tonight. W not mentioned guaranot again. She slept in separate bed last night. She has resorted to filling in social housing applications. Spoke to OM ex W who suspects he left her cos of A with W. Feel a bit stupid now.
Why are YOU speaking to the w of OM? What is your goal? Be clear here.
What is your goal--you may be cementing the end of THEIR marriage, making him more available to your w, and harming another family?
Don't corner anyone, especially yourself.
Learn the difference between boundaries from healthy self respect,
and the punitive lashing out of a wounded ego. Sometimes it's a fine line. But a lot of what you are doing or want to do, sounds like a man with a lot of anger and pride, REACTING instead of making smart healthy choices.
Are you here to save your marriage or end it faster?
He left about same time as W had confused feelings. There is no proof and I am not looking for any. But I have to assume that A is happening.
WHY would you "HAVE TO ASSUME" THAT? No you don't have to. You "have to" protect yourself financially but you need assume nothing.
And if you have no proof, you are needlessly hurting their marriage or chance for a recon, AND your own. WHY would you do that?
Read the DB book and GET A DB COACH ASAP...SERIOUSLY, they are cheaper than divorce so don't use money as an excuse.
Your timeline is SO SHORT it's crazy to me. Before you do irreparable damage to your m, HIRE A DB COACH and slow this train down!
It all clicks into place. W wld not admit to A DO NOT ASK HER AGAIN! JUST BE THE BETTER CHOICE...AND READ THE DB BOOK.
IT'S FRUSTRATING TO POST TO SOMEONE WITH AS MANY POSTS AS YOU HAVE-
ONLY TO REALIZE YOU MUST NOT HAVE READ THE BOOK...you need to understand the basis of our solution based approach here.
Like your last long post - was going line by line with hers to ARGUE SOME MORE ABOUT THE PAST...do NOT engage in that.
Show you that you won't, by NOT doing it. Teach her to be in the present so you guys can work on things.
And are these your kids or not? so where do you want or expect THEM to live? I'm just asking.
cos her ex H left her because of A. She knows the anger that will cause with family etc hence why she has cut them off. I think the plan was to move out and then they can say it happened since! all of this^^^ is useless mind reading and it's ALL negative too...
That does NOT help your situation. Do you get that? How do I handle this going forwards. Not sure yet if A is a dealbreaker or not. Want to keep on the db path for now. OM ex W wants to confront her H.
"Keep on the db path"?? GET ON IT FIRST AND THEN STAY ON IT...
as for OM's ex w? Why are YOU involved in their m at all? It's none of your business and you cannot gain by inserting yourself into it.
Especially since you have no proof but even if you did. NOT YOUR BUSINESS! It's theirs and theirs only.
IF she confronts, chances are HER Pride and HER ANGER, will cement her choice to leave---- and so, how does that help YOU??
Back off...way off.
Also wld appreciate opinions on is this going to ever happen for me given these last few days.
hire a DB coach and read the book. I have a VERY hard time believing you read it and if you did
read it again. The whole book. Start detaching and get a realistic time frame b/c anyone with kids
who wants to end things or corner his wife into ending it, THIS FAST, is not a very patient person.
Look at my signature to get a grip on what real timelines are for repairing damaged m's.
See if your w will go to Retrovaille. Given the way you both communicate and both want to "WIN" and "BE RIGHT" (rather than be happy or married)
I doubt she'll go anytime soon. Build up some peace between you. Conversations without conflict and do NOT escalate. Get off the phone if she rants but always do it calmly. Men in charge of their emotions are appealing, men who are not, are not.
Good luck
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
thanks 25yearsMLC. I am trying to convince myself, am not detached and seriously need to read again. Broke every rule I know.
It was a mistake to talk to OM ex she contacted me and did most of the talking. I should not have let this happen. I did not ask W about affair though - just the way I worded the post. But I am presuming again. The line by line stuf...yes.. stupid. Communication - awful. Mindreading - embarrasing.
ok truth is I am really struggling these last few days. Every emotion possible is going through my head, I feel like its clouding my judgement on things and need to be emotionally stronger. This whole guarantor issue has thrown me and everything I have done. I am trapping her, I dont want that, she does not want that and it is eating at me.
I have read DR and not DB (I will get DB). Yes I will get DB coaching.
take a breath. Then do it again. Learn to STFU and listen to her when she speaks. Keep the money issues separate from the marital issues.
Focus on a few traits you want to work on, for YOU. And work on them. Improve yourself b/c you want to become the best man YOU can become.
Spend MORE time with the kids. Be the best dad you can be. Not just b/c it's an emotional turn on for mothers, but b/c they need you now more than ever.
And stop engaging in the same unhealthy dynamic. WIthout NEW TOOLS
you will repeat the same unhealth patterns and behaviors and that just confirms in her mind, that leaving is the right choice to make. You need to undermine that belief of hers.
Only NEW different behaviors on your end, will achieve that.
So get some counselling and talk to a DB coach asap. And read the book again.
What is your main goal? Can you say that? If it's reconciliation, then figure out what that would look like at the start.
Meaning, would it be a few nice chats, or a HUGE HUG and time in bed?
my guess is that a few chats without conflict would be the start of a better r, and a chance at reconciling...so work on trying to get THAT to happen.
And build on it.
but yes you need tools. Any chance for attending Retrovaille? Do look at it.
It'll help you co-parent at the very least.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
My ultimate goal is reconciliation. But yes, patience is something i realise I have to get nailed or I will blow it even further.
Shorter term I now want to be able to have a conversation with W that is not about her moving house. We did make some small progress this evening and we are talking.
My 180's before this blew up were:
1. Spending more time with kids:
- Make sure I am home for dinner or at least before bed time each evening from work and take our youngest S off her hands
- To do at least 2 activities at weekend with S to give W a break.
2. Be more proactive with housework:
- To help with washing and ironing at weekend
- To clean bathroom once a week
(the 2 jobs W hates doing)
3. To be happier when I get home from work
- smiling when I arrive home instead of being stressed from rush hour! being upbeat and positive when I arrive home.
4. To show more appreciation to W - thank W for nice meal when she cooks and more generally with housework - listen more attentively when she tells me about her day
5. To try and use her LL more: - words of affirmation - think PT is another of W LL(this is a goal to create some intimacy)
6. To make sure I walk dog every evening.
My GAL activities: - Gym (3x per week) - Dog walk (every evening) - activities with S - keep in contact with friends. Visit them - Dog training class
These were all going pretty well until the disaster of the last few days! W still has trust issues with all of this - but I had been feeling pretty good and she loved me spending more time with S and the dog! I am enjoying these and would like to keep them up.
But then I hit the panic button and boom!
Re RetroVaille I would love to attend. We have very little to no spare money at the moment. Eldest S is at Uni and we don't get and govt support. I have to finance him. I am having to ask parents if they could loan me for DB coach -confidentially!. I know my marriage is more important than money but it is the worst we have had it financially in a long time. It is adding a lot of exra pressure to things. But I will do what I can to get help.
Just as a general update, when I got home from work today W approached me and apologised for her behaviour over the last few days, said she has never been like that before and does not know what happened. That she does not want us to fight over things like this.
I responded by saying I understand why she must feel so angry, that I could have handled myself better dealing with sitch and I agree that we need to communicate better.
She had made my dinner (which I thanked her for). She explained that she has researched some other options re housing and there may be things she can do. I am having trouble with the thought of her leaving still. I think it is this that really derailed me.
We had a general conversation about issues with transport at S school (she was in an upbeat mood) and she insisted to get S ready for bed. She has now gone out to a friends house.
For now I am just thankful we are talking. It at least gives me chance to work on communicating.
Perhaps should not have done this - I text OM W, said that I don't think confrontation would result in anyones best interest if she is wrong. That I was not convinced of A. I suggested we just give it time, said I love W and family and that I do not want to risk any further pressure on that. She text back and agreed that she understands and the approach made sense and she will not confront her H. That she needs to GAL herself. But I know I have lit a potential time bomb here!!! stupid. I will cut off all contact now.
Sorry for long post(again). I will keep you updated and thanks for stepping in.
My ultimate goal is reconciliation. But yes, patience is something i realise I have to get nailed or I will blow it even further.
Shorter term I now want to be able to have a conversation with W that is not about her moving house. We did make some small progress this evening and we are talking. ^^^sounds good.
My 180's before this blew up were:
1. Spending more time with kids:
- Make sure I am home for dinner or at least before bed time each evening from work and take our youngest S off her hands be home for dinner. You CAN usually make that happen. Being home "at least before evening" makes no sense to me. She needs to see this concrete step as it affects her quality of life. Bring work home if you have to or don't take lunch. But get home by dinner (for now at least)
- To do at least 2 activities at weekend with S to give W a break. Good. Can you help each evening with some task? A bath or clean up or something that gives her a daily break? God, I'd need that if I were her.
2. Be more proactive with housework:
- To help with washing and ironing at weekend
- To clean bathroom once a week
(the 2 jobs W hates doing) ^^^ these are good concrete measurable goals that ought to be done anyhow. But expect no thanks for awhile, and if you get some, be glad. Do not highlight the contributions you are making. IN her eyes, maybe, this is something you ought to have been doing for years...make sense?
3. To be happier when I get home from work
- smiling when I arrive home instead of being stressed from rush hour! being upbeat and positive when I arrive home. ^^^ GOOD!!
Nothing worse than a self absorbed negative person walking in the door who also makes demands of you (e.g., dinner and warm reception expected) so good luck on this goal!
IF you can do THIS, it can make a difference in how everyone feels all evening.
4. To show more appreciation to W - thank W for nice meal when she cooks and more generally with housework - listen more attentively when she tells me about her day Again, this ^^^ is Good stuff.
A kind warm greeting and question about her day is also a nice start and if she wants to unload the son or a problem, be glad she chose YOU to unburden herself to, if you know what I mean.
Isn't she home with son most of the day by herself?
5. To try and use her LL more: - words of affirmation - think PT is another of W LL(this is a goal to create some intimacy) make sure PT is HER LL (and not just yours.) I think some men say PT is their w's love language but it turns into something else, so it's really just foreplay
and that can make some women feel pressure.
A friend of mine used to give his ex w a back rub for AN HOUR and it never lead to more intimacy, or it WAS the intimacy
My h is not physically capable of that, imo. (I am not angry about it but more amused.)
My point is, while I love back rubs, I know that with MY h, it leads to something else so it's not really a "one way gift" to me,
and there are times I NEED a back rub and wish I didn't have to pay a masseuse for one.
But I know my h and his limits. A LONG back rub and a lot of PT are not going to happen often, unless it goes somewhere.
Many women feel this way and so, even though we'd LOVE to be touched, if there are expectations attached, that feels like pressure
OR It might just be more than she's ready for.
AND OR it's nice to be touched for the sake of comforting another and not with a return expected.
So if you can give her PT without expecting more, go for it. But let her know she's in charge of that -
and you won't feel angry if all she does is receive for awhile.
6. To make sure I walk dog every evening.
My GAL activities: - Gym (3x per week) - Dog walk (every evening) - activities with S - keep in contact with friends. Visit them - Dog training class Some good stuff here^^^ but
only ONE Of these^^ involve other people. More GAL activities need to involve others. Going to the gym helps you, but it's not really a social activity.
Same for everything else up there, except the "hang w/friends"...
I suggest you JOIN something, a group/club or class and meet NEW people who do not know your w or sitch.
GETTING OUT OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE (GROWING), AND MEETING NEW PEOPLE ARE 2 KEYS TO GAL.
I took a French Conversation club, an Italian cooking class, I joined a writer's group, I auditioned for theater and did stand up comedy,
I volunteered at the women's shelter, I did things at the kids' school, I took up cross country skiing and target shooting, I coached a softball team, AND worked out and saw a c, and used a tanning booth and took anti-depressants and yes, there's more.
But those are examples of things I did to GAL and I did them in the interior of Alaska, when I had a newborn at home.
There's no way you cannot GAL more.
Make the time. This is your only life. So Get A Life. We hammer the GAL here, for good reason.
It makes a HUGE difference in your PMA and the changes you want to make and pretty much everything else.
These were all going pretty well until the disaster of the last few days! W still has trust issues with all of this - but I had been feeling pretty good and she loved me spending more time with S and the dog! I am enjoying these and would like to keep them up.
But then I hit the panic button and boom!
Re RetroVaille I would love to attend. We have very little to no spare money at the moment. you can go and pay based on a sliding scale. Just ask.
Eldest S is at Uni and we don't get and govt support. I have to finance him.
Join the club. We had 2 in college at once. My entire 6 figure paycheck went to tuition and taxes, and was still not enough. Never got any gov support either.
I am having to ask parents if they could loan me for DB coach -confidentially!. I know my marriage is more important than money but it is the worst we have had it financially in a long time. It is adding a lot of exra pressure to things. But I will do what I can to get help. fwiw, most marital crises hit the bank hard. Ours sure did. Still not where we would have been without the insanity
but then again, divorce would cost more. Keep that in mind.
Remember that financial security is, right or wrong, a big hope and expectation many women have of their men. We are attracted to "good providers", whether that's fair or not. So
You're smart not to flaunt spending a lot of money in front of her even if it is for DBing. I don't recall enough of your sitch that touches on finances.
is that a specific problem she complained of with you?
Just as a general update, when I got home from work today W approached me and apologised for her behaviour over the last few days, said she has never been like that before and does not know what happened. That she does not want us to fight over things like this.
I responded by saying I understand why she must feel so angry, that I could have handled myself better dealing with sitch and I agree that we need to communicate better.
She had made my dinner (which I thanked her for). She explained that she has researched some other options re housing and there may be things she can do. I am having trouble with the thought of her leaving still. I think it is this that really derailed me.
We had a general conversation about issues with transport at S school (she was in an upbeat mood) and she insisted to get S ready for bed. She has now gone out to a friends house.
For now I am just thankful we are talking. It at least gives me chance to work on communicating.
Perhaps should not have done this - I text OM W, said that I don't think confrontation would result in anyones best interest if she is wrong. That I was not convinced of A. I suggested we just give it time, said I love W and family and that I do not want to risk any further pressure on that. She text back and agreed that she understands and the approach made sense and she will not confront her H. That she needs to GAL herself. But I know I have lit a potential time bomb here!!! stupid. I will cut off all contact now.
Sorry for long post(again). I will keep you updated and thanks for stepping in.
I am already reading DR again!. Please stop the contact now.
You've made your position clear w/the POSSIBLE OM's w, so what else is left to say?
Good luck.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
does the father of your step son help out at all? Did he ever?
If not, your stepson may qualify for help b/c his deadbeat dad is nowhere to be seen...
I'd ask about that in a way that does not stir up old emotions.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
[- To do at least 2 activities at weekend with S to give W a break.
Good. Can you help each evening with some task? A bath or clean up or something that gives her a daily break? God, I'd need that if I were her.]
Yes - I have been bathing and getting S ready for bed each night. I had been doing this for a few months now. I also spend time with S when I get in to give W a break. I think a good suggestion to W would be for me to run her a bath earlier whilst I spend time with S. She has been going out a lot in the evenings.
[^^^ these are good concrete measurable goals that ought to be done anyhow. But expect no thanks for awhile, and if you get some, be glad. Do not highlight the contributions you are making. IN her eyes, maybe, this is something you ought to have been doing for years...make sense?]
Makes perfect sense. I should have always done this. You are right, W has not acknowledged the clean bathroon or washing/ironging :)I have not mentioned it.
[Isn't she home with son most of the day by herself?]
No (except school holidays but I book time off when I can) - he attends a special school in the day. She drops him off from school and picks him up. However, we used to get ransport 12 months ago. This gave W more time in day - she had a routine, meeting with her dog walking buddies in the morning and having a long stroll. This was her time to relax properly. When we moved S school and lost transport this impacted a lot on W. She now can't go dog walking with her buddies because they all go early morning. This routine was a big thing for W. I do take S to school when I can and the last few weeks have worked from home a bit more to accommodate this.
GAL - yes i will work on this. I do need to be careful as I don't want to leave W with S too much. But yes I need to get out of my comfort zone.
Re Financial Issues - she did not mention this other than in her letter she refers to me not getting a new job quick enough when she was pregnant.
I do earn good money. But when W was in charge of household finance we ran up a lot of debt. I think this is an underlying issue. In particular of wanting a 'man not a buy'. Whilst she insisted on doing the finances I should have been stronger over this and had more involvement. I wondered if she thinks I should have taken charge earlier. Again, this was a communication issue. Whenever I asked to be involved W said she wanted to do it because she used to work in a bank. I have taken over the finances now and am working through options to reduce our debt and things should get better in a few weeks time. So in one respect, I earned good money (and W was proud of me)but financial security is a problem at the moment.
Basically a lot of things have happened in a short period of time - youngest S change school (there were allegations of abuse)and we lose transport (she loses her dogwalks), eldest S going to University, financial pressures growing, last year we had a small extension built for a downstairs toilet for S - there were some issues with builders I am still dealing with. We had complaints in S old school that were still being dealt with re allegations of abuse, I started new job (less hrs).
