A New Week... A New Opportunity...

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I'd like to ammend a little...you can't do much of anything except (potentially) look better than the OM/OW.

The OM/OW isn't perfect, they'll react the same way with pressure and guilt and all that crap if things don't go their way too. : )

You scream and acts all possesive and stalker like? While the OM/OW doesn't.
OR the OM/OW acts all possesive and stalker like? While you don't.

Who is going to look better?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying make them dinner, and turn down the sheets for them, just don't act like the crazy boyfriend/girlfriend from highschool or the movies.

[Starsky309]

Hi Alkaline-

I've been watching your thread a bit and feel the need to jump in.

From outside the forrest, I can see a few things I want to point out to you to ponder.

There are clearly some indications that she has control here (and likes it that way). Be assured that she hasn't TAKEN control; you GAVE it away.

I can also see that you are (like I was)stuck in the verbal/email rut of simply restating your case and getting nowhere. Again, if she has the upper hand (your choice to give it rather than her taking it), this will KEEP you in the rut as she has the power to respond and you are simply waiting for a response.

Let's look at some basic, often repeated DB principles.

Do what works-
You have said it and now writing it. "No OM" Well, did it work?

Don't believe words and 50% of actions-
Lets also turn this one around. You are mostly words and few actions. More action; less talk. What are you DOING to get control of YOUR life regardless of what she is doing.
She has clearly SHOWN that she is interested in an independent path and that you will end up without her. So ACT to be planning on that. What will you need to do and who will you NEED to BE to pull that off?

180-
Again, less talk and more "rock" would BE a huge 180. Action. It WILL bring a reaction. If she is reacting, then she is NOT upper hand. Let her try and figure YOU out rather than the other way around.

Ultimately, and I know your pain so I'm considerate of what I'm about to say- she is trying to tell yopu something with her actions. An affair says "I'm not attracted to you" and you haven't heard her more subtle hints/indications.

So what are you doing that isn't attractive? Attraction is a reaction to YOU. It is not a choice. What did you stop doing that WAS attractive?

Deep thoughts, I know.

The scariest thing I was ever told here (yet rings true) is "Be the man your wife would have an affair with"

This all points to another DB principle- This isn't about HER. It's about YOU. Not about saving the marriage but about saving/recovering/rebuilding YOU.

And if this M can be saved, YOU are the key to that. It`s not about what you say, it`s about what you do. Action is THE communicator.

If your actions say-

`I will not accept a M with 3 people in it`
Ì will not be pushed around and trod upon by you OR ANYONE ELSE`
I willdo what I must to protect myself from you and your actions`
I will be absolutely fine without you`

THEN, you`ll see some changes. In you AND in her.

The DB fundamentals WILL generate a change in the current dynamics.

SHE will-
-react instead of instigate
-be trying to figure YOU out
-be unsure of HER choices
-pursue YOU

You are showing signs of really getting this stuff. Stick to the ACTIONS.

How much exercise you getting?
Any new clothes? Cologne?

You can do this, AT.

Awesome, awesome post, AK. Some real wisdom in there. ^^^





Starsky

[Denver_2010]

Hi Alkaline-

I've been watching your thread a bit and feel the need to jump in.

From outside the forrest, I can see a few things I want to point out to you to ponder.

There are clearly some indications that she has control here (and likes it that way). Be assured that she hasn't TAKEN control; you GAVE it away.

I can also see that you are (like I was)stuck in the verbal/email rut of simply restating your case and getting nowhere. Again, if she has the upper hand (your choice to give it rather than her taking it), this will KEEP you in the rut as she has the power to respond and you are simply waiting for a response.

Let's look at some basic, often repeated DB principles.

Do what works-
You have said it and now writing it. "No OM" Well, did it work?

Don't believe words and 50% of actions-
Lets also turn this one around. You are mostly words and few actions. More action; less talk. What are you DOING to get control of YOUR life regardless of what she is doing.
She has clearly SHOWN that she is interested in an independent path and that you will end up without her. So ACT to be planning on that. What will you need to do and who will you NEED to BE to pull that off?

180-
Again, less talk and more "rock" would BE a huge 180. Action. It WILL bring a reaction. If she is reacting, then she is NOT upper hand. Let her try and figure YOU out rather than the other way around.

Ultimately, and I know your pain so I'm considerate of what I'm about to say- she is trying to tell yopu something with her actions. An affair says "I'm not attracted to you" and you haven't heard her more subtle hints/indications.

So what are you doing that isn't attractive? Attraction is a reaction to YOU. It is not a choice. What did you stop doing that WAS attractive?

Deep thoughts, I know.

The scariest thing I was ever told here (yet rings true) is "Be the man your wife would have an affair with"

This all points to another DB principle- This isn't about HER. It's about YOU. Not about saving the marriage but about saving/recovering/rebuilding YOU.

And if this M can be saved, YOU are the key to that. It`s not about what you say, it`s about what you do. Action is THE communicator.

If your actions say-

`I will not accept a M with 3 people in it`
Ì will not be pushed around and trod upon by you OR ANYONE ELSE`
I willdo what I must to protect myself from you and your actions`
I will be absolutely fine without you`

THEN, you`ll see some changes. In you AND in her.

The DB fundamentals WILL generate a change in the current dynamics.

SHE will-
-react instead of instigate
-be trying to figure YOU out
-be unsure of HER choices
-pursue YOU

You are showing signs of really getting this stuff. Stick to the ACTIONS.

How much exercise you getting?
Any new clothes? Cologne?

You can do this, AT.

GREAT post. The only exception to it that I take is that you haven't given "No OM" any time to see if will work. Other than that... very nice.

[AlkalineThoughts]

There are clearly some indications that she has control here (and likes it that way). Be assured that she hasn't TAKEN control; you GAVE it away.

I can also see that you are (like I was)stuck in the verbal/email rut of simply restating your case and getting nowhere. Again, if she has the upper hand (your choice to give it rather than her taking it), this will KEEP you in the rut as she has the power to respond and you are simply waiting for a response.

Thank you so much for chiming in! You're right that I've given up some/most control over this sitch...

Let's look at some basic, often repeated DB principles.

Do what works-
You have said it and now writing it. "No OM" Well, did it work?

Don't believe words and 50% of actions-
Lets also turn this one around. You are mostly words and few actions. More action; less talk. What are you DOING to get control of YOUR life regardless of what she is doing.
She has clearly SHOWN that she is interested in an independent path and that you will end up without her. So ACT to be planning on that. What will you need to do and who will you NEED to BE to pull that off?

180-
Again, less talk and more "rock" would BE a huge 180. Action. It WILL bring a reaction. If she is reacting, then she is NOT upper hand. Let her try and figure YOU out rather than the other way around.

I LOVE this... And You're 100% right... Less talk more rock is where I need to be.

Ultimately, and I know your pain so I'm considerate of what I'm about to say- she is trying to tell yopu something with her actions. An affair says "I'm not attracted to you" and you haven't heard her more subtle hints/indications.

So what are you doing that isn't attractive? Attraction is a reaction to YOU. It is not a choice. What did you stop doing that WAS attractive?

Deep thoughts, I know.

Yes, these are deep thoughts... and I've actually thought a TON about this over the last few months... My lack of decision... my lack of STRENGTH... My lack of spontaneity... These are things that faded as we went forward in our R... For reasons I've expressed too many times in my threads...

But to recap: When I saw her unhappiness... I gave MORE of my LLs to her... I spent MORE time complimenting her... I spent MORE time trying to work the physical into it... I spent MORE time trying to fix her issues and fill the hole that was ever-growing in her heart... I see this now... And there's plenty of regret for my actions... but I can't change the past... Only the future...

The scariest thing I was ever told here (yet rings true) is "Be the man your wife would have an affair with"

This all points to another DB principle- This isn't about HER. It's about YOU. Not about saving the marriage but about saving/recovering/rebuilding YOU.

And if this M can be saved, YOU are the key to that. It`s not about what you say, it`s about what you do. Action is THE communicator.

Thanks for this... As I'd all but forgotten this over the last few days/weeks...

If your actions say-

`I will not accept a M with 3 people in it`
Ì will not be pushed around and trod upon by you OR ANYONE ELSE`
I willdo what I must to protect myself from you and your actions`
I will be absolutely fine without you`

THEN, you`ll see some changes. In you AND in her.

The DB fundamentals WILL generate a change in the current dynamics.

SHE will-
-react instead of instigate
-be trying to figure YOU out
-be unsure of HER choices
-pursue YOU

You are showing signs of really getting this stuff. Stick to the ACTIONS.

You're so right about this!

How much exercise you getting?

I'm hitting the gym 6 days a week again... I did this for 12 weeks when she first left... then took a couple weeks "off" (meaning I only hit the gym 2 to 3 times a week)... But now I'm back to the 6 days a week... And it definitely shows.

W must have told me 4 or 5 times how great I looked... How my hard work was showing... She was SHOCKED that she could see my abs! That I had definite muscle definition!

Any new clothes?

Yup... W saw me in NOTHING that she'd ever seen me in before... because suddenly I have a body worth showing off! Jeans that were 8 sizes smaller than the ones she'd bought me (From a 38 waist to a 30 waist) and a couple shirts that show off my hard work (I made it a point to have 2 "Costume Changes... From the work clothes that I came home in, to a workout outfit when I went for a run with my dog, to the "Lounging around" clothes I ended up in)

Cologne?]

I actually wore the same cologne that she remembered me wearing... mostly because she's told me a few times since she's been away that whenever she smells it, it reminds her of me... And I love it myself!

You can do this, AT.

And I believe this too... Thanks so much for your post!

[AlkalineThoughts]

start strong AT. stay still. you really are doing a fantastic job.

Thanks Busting! I'm trying to stay strong...

[AlkalineThoughts]

Hey AT, you recently said “I am definitely not perfect at this DB thing.” Your pretty darn good AT but I know exactly what you mean. I tried to implement what you, Denver and 25 suggested and it all went to hell in a hand basket.

Rough... My soldier in the trenches... I'll be responding to your sitch on your thread VERY soon... But It didn't go to hell in a hand basket...

Thanks for all your support. We're gonna get through this... I'm positive of that!

[AlkalineThoughts]

I don't think that you have been very specific about her words re OM this past weekend. What did she say about OM?

Hey Denver... Well I didn't dive TOO much into OM this weekend, as I didn't want her to feel I was persecuting her and didn't want to let OM dominate our conversation.

In summary, she admitted that she is seeing OM. She told me that she didn't just go up there to be with him (which I believe), that she didn't decide to start seeing him as soon as she got up there (which I also believe), but that after she moved up there and was met with a couple weeks of silence... she began to wonder. She says we talked after she'd been up there for a couple weeks and I stated "Obviously, we're separated... I mean you moved away!". Although I don't remember saying that, I don't doubt that I did. She says that that after that particular conversation was when things started with OM (which I also believe).

Alk,

On what objective basis do you believe all these things to be true? In my experience, when a spouse is wayward, they will pretty much lie about it. ALL of it -- the timing, the nature of the relationship, the whole works.

I don't for a minute believe that she was faithful until YOU didn't respond to her. Sorry.


Starsky

Starsky, I completely get your skepticism here... And let me be clear, I don't think that she DIDN'T have an EA before... But I DO believe that she kept the PA out of it for a while...

Now did she not do ANYTHING PA related before I didn't respond... Probably not... But I heard the sentiment that she was giving here.

I know this is hard to believe... And I may be naive here... but I know my W's guilty conscience very well... And I know that she carries this stuff around inside her and it eats her up...

I also know her body language and mannerisms enough (Psychology major here ) to know when she's out and out lying about something...

Do I think that my lack of response CAUSED her to move the EA to a PA? HELL NO. But do I think that maybe she just needed that justification... That "othering" of me in order to justify it to herself... yes. Yes I do.

I don't blame myself for that... I know that if it wasn't the lack of a response to that particular exchange it would have been something else.

But I do absolutely believe that my W came clean this weekend... That she emptied out the vault of things that had been eating at her...

And even if she was lying to protect my feelings or her feelings... What does it matter the timeframe she proposes?

To me... It doesn't... She admitted to the PA... She was a big enough person to NOT deny it... to not try to hide it anymore.

And I'm thankful for that. If she tried to soften the blow by changing the timeframe... Who Cares? It makes no difference in the grand scheme. The PA exists. She owned up.

That takes a big person.

[labug]

You're a good, intelligent, thoughtful man, AT!

[AlkalineThoughts]

I don't think that you have been very specific about her words re OM this past weekend. What did she say about OM?

Hey Denver... Well I didn't dive TOO much into OM this weekend, as I didn't want her to feel I was persecuting her and didn't want to let OM dominate our conversation.

In summary, she admitted that she is seeing OM. She told me that she didn't just go up there to be with him (which I believe), that she didn't decide to start seeing him as soon as she got up there (which I also believe), but that after she moved up there and was met with a couple weeks of silence... she began to wonder. She says we talked after she'd been up there for a couple weeks and I stated "Obviously, we're separated... I mean you moved away!". Although I don't remember saying that, I don't doubt that I did. She says that that after that particular conversation was when things started with OM (which I also believe).

In her mind, as we were/are separated, this isn't an Affair, and this isn't cheating (Something my IC was VERY adamant in pointing out... that she probably doesn't see this as an affair or as cheating as she took the steps to separate before pursuing a PA.)

I validated this thinking, as I truly understand her opinion on it, even if I don't agree.

We didn't get into too many more details than that, and I tried my best not to keep bringing it up... Although it slipped into conversations again once in a while... like when I was surprised that she actually wanted to read the draft-posts on her blog... I was shocked and said something like "You want to read about how much I love you even though you're going back to OM?"... I know that was a mistake, and I quickly dropped that.

Hope this answers your question!

That is classic wayward thinking and most likely a large stretch of the truth that is more for her and not you. See when your married your married. Unless you have some legal document before you saying your legally separated or divorced then its cheating. Isn't it just so utterly impossible in odds that she just happened to move back to Mouseville and then by chance happen to meet up with the same man she was texting and sending pictures to a few months earlier... right around the same time you realized that the marriage was falling apart... hmmmm......

Again, I completely understand this... All I'm doing is having some empathy for W's position.

I don't believe that wayward thinking is in any way clear or "right"... But I DO understand it.

If it's justification... If it's just a way to make the wayward feel better about their actions... whatever the reason... It's the truth in THEIR mind.

I've come to accept that MY truth isn't HER truth... And for as long as she's wayward, I can't expect any different.

And for the record, she didn't say this was a "chance" meeting... She's admitted all along to an inappropriate relationship with OM... She just told me that it didn't go from EA to PA until she was sure... IN HER MIND... that we were done.

Do I agree with her rationale?

Does it even matter?

No and No. But I won't crucify her for thinking the way that she thinks... Doesn't mean I'm "cool" with it or that i'm in any way "okay" with it...

It just means that I can understand how and why she would HAVE to feel this way.

[Starsky309]

And even if she was lying to protect my feelings or her feelings... What does it matter the timeframe she proposes?

To me... It doesn't...

Then that's good enough for me. Everyone is different, and I like to ask people early on "What would be a dealbreaker for you? EA? PA? Other?" We're here to help you learn to enforce YOUR boundaries.

I still don't believe her though.


Starsky