Now Separated, Am I doing the right things?

[roughenough]

That must be really tough.
I am sure that's very stressful.
I can tell by your tone that your really mad.
I can imagine.
I want to make sure I understand what your saying.
If I hear what your saying.

I don't have my db book with me but I think I am on the right track? Any other suggestions would be appreciated

[Denver_2010]

Rough - Learning to validate is a bit difficult for men who are fixers and a bit controlling. That was me... and something that I still have to focus on not doing EVERY day. But...

Validating means to truly just be her friend. If I came to you with a problem and asked you if you'd be willing to listen, what would you say as I described the problem to you? If you cared, you would probably listen intently, not interrupt, and probably not try to solve my problem.

Be a shoulder to lean on.

Actively listen = Listen intently. Look her in the eye. Don't interrupt. Don't be watching t.v., listening to music, using your smart phone, etc. Don't allow other things to interrupt, such as your phone etc.

I think that your list of responses is right, but you have to be sincere about it.

The first time that I had the opportunity to practice this with my W I was TRULY amazed by just how much she had to say. I realized that I had never just sat there, let her talk, and listened. I realized that when she would tell me about a problem, or the b!tch at work, or whatever, that my mind was always looking to solve it, calm her, tell her that she shouldn't do this or that.

Women like to talk about what is going on their lives. I'm sorry if that sounds sexist or like I'm stereotyping. But I think that its true. They just want us to listen to them. Put the damn football game on mute, and listen to them.

Figure out how to let the love you have for your W come out in just being sincere with her, and letting her be her.

Make sense?

[roughenough]

That’s just awesome Denver. ALL your posts are extremely helpful but I am saving this one as a constant reminder. I am starting to realize this is an amazing skill to learn. I am understanding this is an extremely valuable tool for all relationships, if its implemented properly. Yesterday and today have been EXTREMLY overwhelming for me. I had a 5 minute conversation with W yesterday and I've been so mad at myself because I didn't validate. I was hoping W would have talked a bit more but there were a couple things stacked against me, I didn't validate and I caught her off guard.


Anyway, I “might” have made a mistake by calling her today, that’s VERY rare for me. I’ve been practicing my validating skills prior to the call. I left W a message and she called me back. I mentioned that I probably caught her a bit off guard yesterday and I was curious what she meant when she said “things haven’t been easy.” I put on my listening cap and she started talking. She starting doing the exact thing Denver talked about, telling me about whats going on in her life. Then she started talking about some minor concerns with our son, her busy week, etc….She was surprised by my comments yesterday. She said it wasn’t what she was expecting. She went on to say there were a couple things I wasn’t very helpful with when she reached out to me a couple times over last several months. She thought I was vague and that I was a bit short with her when she asked me about my living situation last month. I fumbled a little when she called me out on this one but I pretty much told her that I plan on staying in the house for now. She's also wondering “why now.” She wants to know why I am reaching out to her now? I told her that’s a good question and I needed to think about it and get back to her.

I can’t remember the exact words but she went on to say “Rough, you were pretty standoffish when I asked you a couple questions about finances, housing/living situation and any of your bonus money. I was under the impression we were on a path to divorce”. By me not giving her answers to some of her questions she thought this was a sign that things were over! It was important for me to listen but also remember to validate, which I did.

The conversation was less than 10 minutes and both of us kept our composure. The only time she started to raise her voice is when I wasn’t sure how to answer her question about my living situation. She went on to say that she’s still planning on scheduling an appointment for us to see the joint councilor. We ended the call by me saying "Have a good one" and her reply was "you do the same".

I could use some help addressing my living situation with her. I am also wondering if I should answer her “why now” question? Ive reached out to her twice in two days and I am sure that’s more than enough for a while. We are SLOWLY starting to talk again and I am learning a new way to communicate. All of this is so freakin crazy and I just don’t know what to make of the last two days?


Freshman class of 2012
Me(M):38
W:43
Together: 15 Married: 11
D:5
S:8
W wanted separation 5/5/12
Stopped living together 5/5/12

“Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude”.
Thomas Jefferson

[Denver_2010]

First of all... relax and calm down. I think that what is happening is really good. Eventually, this is what you want to have happen. Although, the timing has to be precise. You may be timing it correctly. We'll see. To find out, you have to tread carefully, slowly, and with deliberation.

That’s just awesome Denver. ALL your posts are extremely helpful but I am saving this one as a constant reminder. I am starting to realize this is an amazing skill to learn. I am understanding this is an extremely valuable tool for all relationships, if its implemented properly.

I think so too. I don't think that it is natural for mose of us men. I also don't think that it is something that we are taught growing up... mostly because our fathers and grand fathers probably weren't taught it either. But I digress...

Yesterday and today have been EXTREMLY overwhelming for me. I had a 5 minute conversation with W yesterday and I've been so mad at myself because I didn't validate. I was hoping W would have talked a bit more but there were a couple things stacked against me, I didn't validate and I caught her off guard.

Personally, I don't think that either conversation went poorly. You have her wondering about what is going on with you. IMO, that is a good thing. You have taken it slowly and set the stage for more. Also a good thing.

Anyway, I “might” have made a mistake by calling her today, that’s VERY rare for me.

Not IMO. Like I said, eventually, something has to budge and we do have to find out if what we have been doing has worked at all. Things sometimes need to be shaken up. Now, you can feel this out, reassess, and plan going forward. Not a mistake at all IMO.

I mentioned that I probably caught her a bit off guard yesterday and I was curious what she meant when she said “things haven’t been easy.” I put on my listening cap and she started talking. She starting doing the exact thing Denver talked about, telling me about whats going on in her life. Then she started talking about some minor concerns with our son, her busy week, etc….

Yep. She's probably been dying to talk to you about all of this stuff. You are still her H. To think that you have disappeared from her mind would be a mistake. A mistake that I think most, if not all of us, make here is to begin to believe that we have been erased from the mind of the WAW. In hindsight, I see now that our situation was on my W's mind a lot... maybe as much as it was on mine. She thought about me and our M often. The thing is, they are confused. And that paralyzes them. Sometimes they find an escape with an OM. But we don't disappear.

She was surprised by my comments yesterday. She said it wasn’t what she was expecting. She went on to say there were a couple things I wasn’t very helpful with when she reached out to me a couple times over last several months. She thought I was vague and that I was a bit short with her when she asked me about my living situation last month. I fumbled a little when she called me out on this one but I pretty much told her that I plan on staying in the house for now. She's also wondering “why now.” She wants to know why I am reaching out to her now? I told her that’s a good question and I needed to think about it and get back to her.

I can’t remember the exact words but she went on to say “Rough, you were pretty standoffish when I asked you a couple questions about finances, housing/living situation and any of your bonus money. I was under the impression we were on a path to divorce”. By me not giving her answers to some of her questions she thought this was a sign that things were over! It was important for me to listen but also remember to validate, which I did.

The conversation was less than 10 minutes and both of us kept our composure. The only time she started to raise her voice is when I wasn’t sure how to answer her question about my living situation. She went on to say that she’s still planning on scheduling an appointment for us to see the joint councilor. We ended the call by me saying "Have a good one" and her reply was "you do the same".

I could use some help addressing my living situation with her. I am also wondering if I should answer her “why now” question? Ive reached out to her twice in two days and I am sure that’s more than enough for a while. We are SLOWLY starting to talk again and I am learning a new way to communicate. All of this is so freakin crazy and I just don’t know what to make of the last two days?

You are starting to communicate with your W again. Maybe learning how to communicate with her. That's what is happening.

Okay, so let's take this one item at a time.

1) "She was surprised by my comments yesterday. She said it wasn’t what she was expecting. She went on to say there were a couple things I wasn’t very helpful with when she reached out to me a couple times over last several months. She thought I was vague and that I was a bit short with her when she asked me about my living situation last month. I fumbled a little when she called me out on this one but I pretty much told her that I plan on staying in the house for now."

I'd say just be honest with her here. "Honey, we are separated. I've never gone through this before, so I'm not really sure how I should be communicating with you. I think that I have just been taking it day by day. So if I was vague about my living situation, that is why. I guess I just figure that my living situation is my problem to deal with. I wish that these were problems that we were dealing with together, but the reality is that that is not the case right now. I wasn't trying to be rude though." And yes, I wouldn't have a problem throwing the word 'honey' into this. Feel it out. But I think that you really need to communicate that you do still love and cherish her, despite what is going on now. That doesn't mean taking a boom box and playing 'in your eyes' at her window or anything... but a simple word reference of affection might be good.

2) "...I was under the impression we were on a path to divorce”. By me not giving her answers to some of her questions she thought this was a sign that things were over!"

"W, if and when the time comes that I am ready for a divorce, I promise to let you know. Please do not interpret anything that I say or do right now as me wanting a D. The fact of the matter is that I don't want a divorce. I'm just really trying to give you the space and time for you to figure out what you want. I am trying to look at this time away from one another as a time for personal growth, maybe for both of us, but definitely for me. Maybe it will turn out to be a good thing. Maybe we end up divorced and we are both better people for what is happening now. Or, maybe we end up together, in a better, healthier M. I know that, right now, that is what I hope for. But I also know that I cannot control the outcome."

3) "She's also wondering “why now.” She wants to know why I am reaching out to her now? I told her that’s a good question and I needed to think about it and get back to her."

"Because I miss you W. That's why now. I love and miss you. One thing that I have been trying to learn during our time apart is how to communicate better. I realize that I haven't always been the best at it. It is a difficult situation though... I want to give you the time and space that you have asked for, so I don't feel like I can reach out and talk to you like I want to. But there is nothing that I would like more than to learn how we can be close again... be friends again. I'm not trying to pressure you at all. I'm merely trying to reach out to see where I stand right now."

4) "I could use some help addressing my living situation with her."

Again, I'd just say that you wish that were an issue that the two of you were trying to solve together. But that is not the reality of the situation right now. You are taking day by day.

Does your living situation affect her at all?

---

I know that I am suggesting that you go WAY outside of the LRT. Again, I think that there is a time and a place where we just have to let our feelings shine through... To give our WAW an opportunity to reach out to us.

I really think that IF you can reestablish a connection here, and start to just be her friend, that you have a chance if you take it very slowly. It's like trying to get a squirrel to eat a nut out of your hand... no big movements or loud noises... the squirrel will run away (nickel to Trugritter's sister ) But all of this has to be sincere. That is why they say that our changes have to be for us... because otherwise, our WAW will see right through it, and it won't last.

[Arsene]

Thanks Denver,

This is helping me an awful lot as well. Like Rough, I'm going through these communication, validating issues and I guess, as you said, being a "fixer" makes it very difficult to validate.

All I want to do is help her get through, find a solution for her problems or situation. Heck my way to show her i understood her was probably to end her sentences the way I thought she would and go on to tell her what I thought about it.

Rough, we both have to learn to STFU and listen actively.

As you said this is also helpful in all other relationships.

I'm glad your phone convo went well and I'm sure your W has now got a lot to think about, as you do.

Good luck mate,

[roughenough]

Thanks Denver,


Rough, we both have to learn to STFU and listen actively.



Good luck mate,

^^^^Yes Arsene, I agree. I am still digesting Denver's extremely helpful post. I've actually printed it and I am highlighting things. The "In your eyes" is just awesome!

[AlkalineThoughts]

She was surprised by my comments yesterday. She said it wasn’t what she was expecting.

Hmm.. What's that feel like? I'm not sure I've ever heard that before!

I swear, sometimes it feels like we're in the Twilight Zone!

I'm in complete agreement with Denver on this one. I see NOTHING wrong with your conversations... and nothing to be upset about or beat yourself up over.

The ice might be starting to thaw a bit, but as Denver said... proceed with great caution here.

I won't go point by point on Denver's post, because it's ALL gold...

But I will say this: Pumping Peter Gabriel from outside of her window is underrated.

That's the secret weapon in these types of situations!

[roughenough]

AT, I believe you heard the same exact thing the other day, very ironic. Your Peter Gabriel and Twilight Zone comment were funny, thanks for the chuckle, much needed!!! Denver, I printed your last post. Thank you!!!!!! It’s sitting on my coffee table all highlighted and written on with a bunch of chicken scratch. I am trying to grasp everything you said. One thing that stands out is “the timing.” I agree, this “might” be the right time. Another comment that resonated with me “Tread carefully, slowly and with deliberation. It’s got to be sincere.” I think I am fairly patient with things, getting the right words down is a different story so your post is EXTREMELY helpful. It’s interesting because I am somewhat articulate but when my W asks me the simplest question, I am like a deer in headlights!

I often think about my DB friends. There’s nothing I want more then all of you guys in a happy and fulfilling marriage, hopefully with our WAW’s! I know we are working hard.

Denver, 25, Starsky, Mr Bond, Arsene, Suppo, Bug, AT, Carnac, Accuray, etc…What an amazing group!!!!!! Talk about amazing people. I know I am far from my goal but I HIGHLY doubt I would be at this point without all of you. I am truly blessed to have all of you in my life. The conviction all of you have for marriage is absoulutly amazing. The time and effort you put into helping us out is profound. I hope all of you know how much it means to me. This is such deep sh!t were dealing with. So many people just throw in the towel and so many LBS’s just accept what’s happened to them. What makes us different, what makes us fighters? What makes us stand for our marriage? Is there a reason that we put our blood sweat and tears into this? I know why I do it. I love my W, the grass isn’t greener on the other side, my family is the most important thing in my life. My conviction is so strong.

Yes, I always second guess myself. I see my friends hooking up, they tell me to move on, they say I will find love again but I truly don’t think its my time yet. Theres a reason why I am suppose to be fighting for my W. I know my W is an amazing women and it takes a lot of courage for ALL OF US to overcome their infidelity, to truly forgive and still stand for our marriage. God Bless!

[Arsene]

Sh!t Rough,

I've been a wreck all day, crying like a bloody baby, wondering if I shouldn't just throw in the towel. Reading your post has brought me to tears, again (at work) and it's given me the kick in the a$$ and the pat on the shoulder I needed to carry on. I'm not going to give up now and I've copied the last two paragraphs above as a reminder.

Thanks mate!

[roughenough]

Denver, I wanted to give my condolences regarding your dog. I believe a month or two has gone by but I am sure you still miss him a lot. Nothing can replace mans best friend.