Just curious, why ask AT what his W said about the OM, if everyone was just going to discount it as a lie?
FTR, I never advise a betrayed spouse to ask their walkaway/wayward spouse if they're cheating, for the reason you state. Not sure what Denver was trying to get it, but I'm sure he can explain his thoughts on it.
I was asking so that we have all of the fact. The facts being what she said to him. Whether her words are truthful or not, was not the point. We know that she's at least being partially truthful. I don't believe that we really ever get the whole story. I don't necessarily think that it matters. There are a few reasons that an LBS might lie about the details... the whens, hows, or whats. Because they don't want to admit the true story even to themselves, they don't want to hurt the LBS, they want the details to remain hidden for fear that they might drive the LBS completely away... etc. For me it doesn't matter. But, if the conversation is had, what she says does matter. IMO.
I give AT's W credit for the truth that she did give him. She could have continued to deny the OM. She didn't. She was, at a minimum, truthful there. For me, although it hurt like a bastard, I did appreciate my W being honest with me about the fact that it happened.
It is information. And information is always useful.
Now, what to do with it?
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Just curious, why ask AT what his W said about the OM, if everyone was just going to discount it as a lie?
I did not.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
You are seeing a lot of bickering amongst us posters here. Myself included I suppose. I too had A LOT of this in my threads. I think that there was only one time that I basically asked someone to stfu. And, no, it wasn't starsky! I just want to say that it was my choice to let it continue on my thread. At least in that I could have asked that it stop. It can be distracting, but, for me, it was also useful. It got me to think and develop my own positions on what was happening.
I guess that I just want to say that if you want it to stop on your thread, please let us know.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I want to come back to this, from Alk's previous thread:
If DB advises doing 180's, in order to address the WAS's complaints, then how is going dark addressing the complaint that AT didn't fight for her? Cleanliness? Sure, clean up more. Working too much? Sure, cut your hours. Dumping the responsibility of the kids too much? Sure, take them to the park or a movie, spend more time with them.
But responding to her complaining that she doesn't like it in c. Fla by offering more affection? Or responding to her complaint that you didn't fight for her by going dark? These actions just don't make sense to me. Maybe I'm falling prey to "believing what she says." I've never been one much for playing games and admit I don't do them well.
In all of my years on DB, this may be the #1 question that bombed spouses ask. "If he/she complained I was too distant, how is going dim/dark going to help? Isn't it just more of the same?"
It's a fair question, but remember -- DBing is, by its nature, very counterintuitive. Let's face it, what DID come as "following our instincts" was -- for most of us -- what got us INTO this hot mess to begin with!
So that's point #1. Point #2 is that you must make a distinction between a walkaway spouse (no infidelity involved), and those that are in an active affair. When someone is caught up in the affair, many of the things that one might normally do to re-attract them are going to be INEFFECTIVE at best, DAMAGING TO YOUR DB EFFORTS at worst, and ENABLING THE CONTINUED INFIDELITY to be sure.
The dirty little secret is that there really isn't much of ANYTHING you can do while they are still with their OM/OW. They're going to be blocked to you emotionally, actually RESENT any positive changes, and you're just going to be more and more frustrated and resentful.
If you play your cards right . . . and if the wayward spouse chooses to end their affair and make a move back towards the marriage, THEN you will have plenty of opportunities to demonstrate your changes. Until then, you're only spinning your wheels and would be wise to focus on those positive changes that are FOR YOU -- those things that you know in your heart of hearts are things YOU need to work on, to be a better person and a better mate.
I want to come back to this, from Alk's previous thread:
If DB advises doing 180's, in order to address the WAS's complaints, then how is going dark addressing the complaint that AT didn't fight for her? Cleanliness? Sure, clean up more. Working too much? Sure, cut your hours. Dumping the responsibility of the kids too much? Sure, take them to the park or a movie, spend more time with them.
But responding to her complaining that she doesn't like it in c. Fla by offering more affection? Or responding to her complaint that you didn't fight for her by going dark? These actions just don't make sense to me. Maybe I'm falling prey to "believing what she says." I've never been one much for playing games and admit I don't do them well.
In all of my years on DB, this may be the #1 question that bombed spouses ask. "If he/she complained I was too distant, how is going dim/dark going to help? Isn't it just more of the same?"
It's a fair question, but remember -- DBing is, by its nature, very counterintuitive. Let's face it, what DID come as "following our instincts" was -- for most of us -- what got us INTO this hot mess to begin with!
So that's point #1. Point #2 is that you must make a distinction between a walkaway spouse (no infidelity involved), and those that are in an active affair. When someone is caught up in the affair, many of the things that one might normally do to re-attract them are going to be INEFFECTIVE at best, DAMAGING TO YOUR DB EFFORTS at worst, and ENABLING THE CONTINUED INFIDELITY to be sure.
The dirty little secret is that there really isn't much of ANYTHING you can do while they are still with their OM/OW. They're going to be blocked to you emotionally, actually RESENT any positive changes, and you're just going to be more and more frustrated and resentful.
If you play your cards right . . . and if the wayward spouse chooses to end their affair and make a move back towards the marriage, THEN you will have plenty of opportunities to demonstrate your changes. Until then, you're only spinning your wheels and would be wise to focus on those positive changes that are FOR YOU -- those things that you know in your heart of hearts are things YOU need to work on, to be a better person and a better mate.
Starsky
Wow! You just summed that up about as perfectly as one could. I agree. And that was my experience as well.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I just want to say that it was my choice to let it continue on my thread. At least in that I could have asked that it stop. It can be distracting, but, for me, it was also useful. It got me to think and develop my own positions on what was happening.