I don't think that you have been very specific about her words re OM this past weekend. What did she say about OM?
Hey Denver... Well I didn't dive TOO much into OM this weekend, as I didn't want her to feel I was persecuting her and didn't want to let OM dominate our conversation.
In summary, she admitted that she is seeing OM. She told me that she didn't just go up there to be with him (which I believe), that she didn't decide to start seeing him as soon as she got up there (which I also believe), but that after she moved up there and was met with a couple weeks of silence... she began to wonder. She says we talked after she'd been up there for a couple weeks and I stated "Obviously, we're separated... I mean you moved away!". Although I don't remember saying that, I don't doubt that I did. She says that that after that particular conversation was when things started with OM (which I also believe).
Alk,
On what objective basis do you believe all these things to be true? In my experience, when a spouse is wayward, they will pretty much lie about it. ALL of it -- the timing, the nature of the relationship, the whole works.
I don't for a minute believe that she was faithful until YOU didn't respond to her. Sorry.
I don't think that you have been very specific about her words re OM this past weekend. What did she say about OM?
Hey Denver... Well I didn't dive TOO much into OM this weekend, as I didn't want her to feel I was persecuting her and didn't want to let OM dominate our conversation.
In summary, she admitted that she is seeing OM. She told me that she didn't just go up there to be with him (which I believe), that she didn't decide to start seeing him as soon as she got up there (which I also believe), but that after she moved up there and was met with a couple weeks of silence... she began to wonder. She says we talked after she'd been up there for a couple weeks and I stated "Obviously, we're separated... I mean you moved away!". Although I don't remember saying that, I don't doubt that I did. She says that that after that particular conversation was when things started with OM (which I also believe).
In her mind, as we were/are separated, this isn't an Affair, and this isn't cheating (Something my IC was VERY adamant in pointing out... that she probably doesn't see this as an affair or as cheating as she took the steps to separate before pursuing a PA.)
I validated this thinking, as I truly understand her opinion on it, even if I don't agree.
We didn't get into too many more details than that, and I tried my best not to keep bringing it up... Although it slipped into conversations again once in a while... like when I was surprised that she actually wanted to read the draft-posts on her blog... I was shocked and said something like "You want to read about how much I love you even though you're going back to OM?"... I know that was a mistake, and I quickly dropped that.
Hope this answers your question!
That is classic wayward thinking and most likely a large stretch of the truth that is more for her and not you. See when your married your married. Unless you have some legal document before you saying your legally separated or divorced then its cheating. Isn't it just so utterly impossible in odds that she just happened to move back to Mouseville and then by chance happen to meet up with the same man she was texting and sending pictures to a few months earlier... right around the same time you realized that the marriage was falling apart... hmmmm......
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
I don't think that you have been very specific about her words re OM this past weekend. What did she say about OM?
In her mind, as we were/are separated, this isn't an Affair, and this isn't cheating (Something my IC was VERY adamant in pointing out... that she probably doesn't see this as an affair or as cheating as she took the steps to separate before pursuing a PA.)
My W's opinion on the subject too. I still sometimes wonder what she would have thought if it had been that left and began dating. I don't think that she'd have the same opinion... in fact, I KNOW she wouldn't. People will always justify their actions rather than admit that what they are doing is shady and wrong.
However... I do agree with the motto... "I'd rather be happy than right"
Originally Posted By: AlkalineThoughts
I validated this thinking, as I truly understand her opinion on it, even if I don't agree.
I could never validate what my W had to say about it. Even during our S we had a couple of heated conversations about the definition of her actions.
I really never have resolved the question in my own mind. I think that ultimately it is just wrong, and that you should be divorced before dating. But I also know that had it been me that left, I may have done the same thing. I also see that we, as human beings, are just looking for happiness. It is sometimes hard to put that aside when you honestly believe that you are done with the marriage. I see both sides of the argument.
----
Can you see yourself pursuing her, having contact with her, being there for her emotionally, knowing that she may be sleeping in the bed of an OM?
I don't mean to be hurtfully blunt, but that was something that I could not see myself doing.
Waiting it out? Yes. For a while. Actively being a part of her life while knowing that OM could be with her that night, cuddling with her on the couch, or while I was on the phone with her... no way. It was hard enough putting those thoughts out of my mind while trying to detach and be dark.
I'm just wondering how you look at this... what you think about?
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I'm with starsky; I don't believe her, either. She's found a way to blame you for her A; I only did it because you didn't fight for me...I waited until then (even WEEKS after YOU abandoned me to start up with OM.
No, I know you want to believe it because it's less painful but none of that even makes sense.
M:63 H:53 S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23 M:15 T:16
Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways." H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12 12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing
My last thread, which describes one of the toughest weeks of my life, a setting of boundaries, and a whole SLEW of indecision on my next steps... Is now being abandoned... Plus, it took a confusing turn over the last 24 hours... So I wanted to start fresh again.
I've got a very busy morning at work, so I won't be able to write much here right now.
However, I do want to say this:
I'm extraordinarily confused, kinda depressed, and feel a whole lot more "lost" than I have in quite some time.
A big part of me wants to put together an email to W, detailing and solidifying the conversation we had next weekend. Clearly laying out my position, my desires, and my fight.
I'm getting advice on both sides of the argument... Some saying that I need to listen to W's words about how upset she's been that I haven't been, nor has she ever felt I did sufficiently, fighting for US.
And some saying that now that I've said my piece about not being able to continue a R with her so long as there's an OM in the picture, darkness is the only option.
I'm firmly on the fence right now, and will continue looking for guidance from within, from these boards, and from my IC this week.
I'll try to update more as soon as I have the opportunity.
A HUGE continued thank you for EVERYONE who is following along with my sitch and chiming in. I truly appreciate each post I receive.
Alk,
I'm sorry this is so confusing for you. I felt that you were in a good place, and now I'm afraid our bickering about various strategies (admittedly, some VERY diametrically opposed to each other) has only confused you and caused you to lose your mojo.
Your IC is right -- you don't have to do ANYTHING right now. There are ELEMENTS of even diametrically opposed posts that can be of benefit to you, if you can glean their pearls from the rest of our chatter.
When in doubt, if you are going to err I would advise that you err on the side of trying to follow the road of those that have been there before (authors, researchers, therapists and those who have lived it), and successfully navigated it. ASK QUESTIONS ("That seems counterintuitive; how did that work for you?") . . . or "That doesn't seem right to me; WHY do you recommend that?"
And read everything you can on infidelity. People caught up in affairs simply do NOT behave according to the same patterns and dynamics as those who are not. The GOOD news is, much of their behavior is very predictable, and we can help you separate the gaslighting from the true stuff that SHOULD sting.
My last thread, which describes one of the toughest weeks of my life, a setting of boundaries, and a whole SLEW of indecision on my next steps... Is now being abandoned... Plus, it took a confusing turn over the last 24 hours... So I wanted to start fresh again.
I've got a very busy morning at work, so I won't be able to write much here right now.
However, I do want to say this:
I'm extraordinarily confused, kinda depressed, and feel a whole lot more "lost" than I have in quite some time.
A big part of me wants to put together an email to W, detailing and solidifying the conversation we had next weekend. Clearly laying out my position, my desires, and my fight.
I'm getting advice on both sides of the argument... Some saying that I need to listen to W's words about how upset she's been that I haven't been, nor has she ever felt I did sufficiently, fighting for US.
And some saying that now that I've said my piece about not being able to continue a R with her so long as there's an OM in the picture, darkness is the only option.
I'm firmly on the fence right now, and will continue looking for guidance from within, from these boards, and from my IC this week.
I'll try to update more as soon as I have the opportunity.
A HUGE continued thank you for EVERYONE who is following along with my sitch and chiming in. I truly appreciate each post I receive.
Alk,
I'm sorry this is so confusing for you. I felt that you were in a good place, and now I'm afraid our bickering about various strategies (admittedly, some VERY diametrically opposed to each other) has only confused you and caused you to lose your mojo.
Your IC is right -- you don't have to do ANYTHING right now. There are ELEMENTS of even diametrically opposed posts that can be of benefit to you, if you can glean their pearls from the rest of our chatter.
When in doubt, if you are going to err I would advise that you err on the side of trying to follow the road of those that have been there before (authors, researchers, therapists and those who have lived it), and successfully navigated it. ASK QUESTIONS ("That seems counterintuitive; how did that work for you?") . . . or "That doesn't seem right to me; WHY do you recommend that?"
And read everything you can on infidelity. People caught up in affairs simply do NOT behave according to the same patterns and dynamics as those who are not. The GOOD news is, much of their behavior is very predictable, and we can help you separate the gaslighting from the true stuff that SHOULD sting.
Starsky
Good advice ^^^ ... and very true
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I just keep hearing echoes of her words toward me about not fighting, about how she wanted me to chase her up there and camp out on her front porch until I got her back...
She said that? About now?? In your previous post, you indicated that you asked her if there was anything you could do NOW, and that she just responded with confusion. Don't take the "camping" comment out of context. If it was in reference to before, it isn't now. You can't go back in time.
Yes, this was something she said that she HAD expected me to do. That she was so confused that she was met with silence when she left... That she was expecting me to go to these types of lengths to get her back...
She referenced the movie "Last Kiss" and said that was exactly what she thought I'd do... sleep outside her house in the pouring rain for days if that's what it took to get her back... She was shocked that I decided to do nothing of the sort... That instead I just let her go...
I explained that I completely understood why she thought that way. Then I tried to explain (which was probably a mistake) that after she left me, I had to try something new: Listen to her words and actions... She told me she needed time and space, so I gave it to her... She PROVED that she needed that time and space by moving away, so I fought my every instinct to chase her up there... And just tried to LISTEN to her and give her what she was asking for... Time and Space to find herself... to be alone... I explained that I didn't want to be an obstacle to her happiness, that I didn't want to interfere with something that she told me she needed so badly... even though I WANTED so badly to chase her and beg for her to come back...
Ladybug was shocked as well that I did not chase and beg and beg her to come back. I tried it at first. But I saw quickly it was not working. So I stated my boundaries and stuck by them. It was tough for a very long time. Very long time. But I did see some good changes from my actions of a steady silent strength towards the affair, towards the anger and towards the blame shifting.
She figured out eventually that if she wanted to communicate with me that she had to be civil , honest and polite. She could not be angry or blame me for her choices. She said the silence hurt her. I replied that her lies and the affair hurt me. That her making choices about my life without any input or consideration of my feelings or health hurt me. That it was very selfish of her to be with OM and expect me to be at her beck and call when I was working through her actions and trying to heal. That I stated my boundaries and I stuck by them. She came to respect that in time. As well she commented on how I always remained a gentleman with her. That i never badmouthed her to family , friends etc.... That I never threatened her. She also said that me telling the truth hurt her feelings...( wrap that one around your head ) We had a fair separation. If there is any communication that needs to be done now about family or tieing up loose ends. It is done with no bitterness or resentment. For you see I did not restore my marriage but I restored the respect level. Which went from the level of : Affair , cake walking , lies and gas-lighting to what it is now : She knows I am a man of dignity and values who would not compromise those values or boundaries. Her family feels the same way. See you did well by giving her, the space to find herself. Do not let that silent strength and commitment to healing yourself and not becoming bitter be taken away from you by anyone. Yourself included. Some people think that being quiet , honest and thoughtful as a sign of weakness. It is not. You are not being walked over , you are not controlling, you are not placing unattainable expectations. You simply said. You know what. I love you. I want to have you as my wife. But I love myself as well. The only way my marriage with my wife can thrive and grow is if my wife loves me, treats me as an equal. Works with me on decisions. Loves me and no one else. As my lover and my best friend. So do not beat yourself up or second guess yourself. Just look inside again and find that inner strength you have.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
I understand the "audience" discounting it as a lie, I just don't understand the futility of the exercise of having him type it all out so you could tell him not to believe it, especially when he opted out of the details on the original post.
