Hi Rough, it seems to me that your conversation with your wife went well. Pretty under control. I had planned to do that with my H but I didn't do such a good job. I ended up crying and saying a few things I shouldn't have said... So, much respect to you!!
Hey 25 and Arsene- I look forward to going over your posts but I just spoke with W and I first wanted to give a play by play.
Conversation with W-
M- How’s it going? W-It’s going fine. M-No W, really. How’s it going? W- It hasn’t been easy. M- I understand, I really do. Can you tell me what's hardest today?
W-That’s all you ever say Rough. M-It’s time W, it’s time to talk, it’s long overdue. Really? Sorry. I don't mean to sound cliched b/c I really do want to hear what you have to say. Tell me more please.
W- About what, divorce? M- No W, do you think I care? W-I thought you might? M-Well, I do care W. I love you W and I will never give up on you no matter what. W-Well I assumed that you’ve been dating someone else. M- I am not going to mince my words and I know you wont believe me but I am married and Ive been behaving as such. No I'm not seeing anyone else. W-I don’t know what to say right now.
M- I understand, you don’t have to say anything if you don’t want.
W-I am going to schedule an appointment for us to see the joint councilor.
All in all it went fine. I wish W would have talked more but in her defense, I caught her off guard. Yes you caught her off guard. Why? She said plenty. I don't think you "get" what validation means, do you?
I'm not sure giving you advice matters b/c you do what you want anyhow. But know when you are DBIng and when you are not. LEARN from your mistakes. Otherwise she'll expect more of the same and not be interested.
What was your goal in this conversation? Seriously, what was it?
She was crying through most of the interaction. As Denver said, I might have a slight chance if I see an ounce of emotion. I held it together fairly well, it was obvious that I was slightly up tight and I did tear up just a little bit. At the end, we said our goodbye. Even though she didn’t say much, I am really glad the interaction took place. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
when you do get to a counselor, do a lot more listening. You were far more interested in getting your message across than in hearing her.
Don't rush in with your rehearsed "I understand" replies. They don't sound sincere to me, and we KNOW she does not believe it.
Get information FROM HER and THEN process it before you blurt out a cliche.
Do you know what I'm mean?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Sorry Rough, I've got this question for Accuray and don't quite know where to post it. Thanks mate!
Hi Accuray,
I found this from you while going through Crazyville's posts.
I can share this for you from my own marriage -- my W has feelings of inadequacy that don't have anything to do with me. I have an achieving personality type, so my quest to improve myself and my situation exacerbates her feelings of inadequacy. Many of the people on this board who run into marriage trouble describe themselves as perfectionists. [color:#000099] ***** to ME, her feeling inadequate MAY have something to do with her h. Maybe He's critical and judgemental OR at least, she feels he is. So the "achieving personality" would not affect her if he were affirming enough to her,
unless she's so fundamentally insecure that she's not capable of feeling alright about herself no matter who she married. I don't buy that an "achieving personality" in itself makes a woman feel unvalued or unloved. Sorry, but I don't buy it. If it's true, it'd be obvious that she's very insecure. If it's only in the marriage that these feelings surface that tells you something.***
This can create a dynamic where our spouses feel they can never be good enough, that they can never meet [b]our high expectations, and therefore they don't try.[/b] In my W's case, she felt that nothing she did would ever be good enough, and even if she did deliver "what I wanted" there would just be another request behind that one for something different and it would never end.
To ME, that^^ means there are numerous requests and "tasks assigned" and it never ends. Why else would she only expect yet more, once she has done what was asked?
My IC described this as creating a climate where your spouse does not feel "safe". They feel that whatever they do will be scrutinized and judged (even if you don't ever actually do that), Especially IF YOU DO THAT and come on, this is not happening in a vacuum.
that nothing they do will be as good as how you would have done it, and that their efforts will never lead to acceptance. In response, they retreat, withdraw, and nothing you do will inspire them to try.
Accuray[/color] I believe this is what my wife has a problem with. She told me she was always afraid to let me down. That says something then. Take it in and see why she'd feel that way.
Now after yesterday's convo with her, I left her without judging or criticizing. In fact, I told her that I didn't agree with her seeing OM So you don't think that sounds a tad "critical"? Um, Okay...and did you think SHE NEEDED to know you didn't agree? As if She didn't already know that?
To me, you just reiterated what she KNOWS and has known...why?
but I accepted the fact that she was and that perhaps it's what she had to do for the time being. I'd welcome your comments re: how your post to crazyville can help my sitch. Thanks
On the whole, the conversation was better than it might have been b/c you both cried and hugged and were able to have some resolution feelings later. but have no more of these or it's going to make her uncomfortable. I'm glad she said this is the most honest talk you've had.
I'd leave out ALL the stuff about not agreeing with OM. Who would "agree" with it?
She said she was "in love" with OM. Ouch. Glad you didn't lose it then. Good for you. And She also said she'd be alright without him...okay.
All you had to say was that you believe you two might find each other again someday and that you are glad she helped you change....b/c you have.
ANd leave it at that.
Also SIDENOTE---so you CAN take your d out of the country?
You may seriously want to do that someday soon...like let's say in a year or two.
B/C you cannot stay there forever, with custody solely in her hands. Too unsure and unstable for your d, imo.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Looking back on the conversation I should have said “what part about it is hard ?”. That would have been a really good one. I do need to stop with the “I understand.” 25, you say “ I am gonna do what I wanta do” but I guess I just don’t get that. I DO value what you say. I cant say I am a superstar when it comes to implementing everything. I actually got one of you posts AFTER I spoke with W. I also implemented a couple things that I got from others on this forum so to say that I am not trying to use this advice is a little untrue because I DO have an open mind.
I am still glad we had the conversation. It was at least a start. Sh!t, W could have said the following without sheading a tear, fu!ck you Rough, I want nothing to do with you and I am getting the divorce papers to sign.
We live and learn Rough. I also have a hard time "validating" or just listening in general. I guess part of it is asking them to clarify or expand on what they say without trying to butt in to tell them we know what they are saying or how they "should" be thinking instead, or even what WE think about it. It's not easy and it doesn't come naturally if you've never communicated this way before. We're learning mate.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
25, I'll address your comments on my own thread, where I've already pasted your post. Thanks for your time.
Sorry about this Rough!
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
I am REALLY kicking myself. I have gone over our brief interaction over and over in my head. I had an opportunity, I am glad I got a couple things out in the open but at the same time I didn’t get much from W. I know Ive already posted about this but I cant get the part when W said “things are tough.” THAT was my opportunity! I said “I understand” and that stopped me from getting her to express her feelings. Just a simple “what part about things is tough?” would have made a world of difference. Can I ask her what she meant by that or is it late to go back and ask her?
The last post from 25 was spot on. Makes me feel like crap though because I could have done better. W means SO much to me and part of me things I blew it.
Probably too late mate but no worries, it sounds like you'll be able to do this again soon. As you said, at least she talked back and was polite and even interested in what you said. Don't worry, there will be another chance. Let this go for now.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Your right Arsene. Easier said then done, ya know what I mean? Believe me, I will try my hardest not to do that again. A lot of us are very hard on ourselves. I know you were frustrated after your incident and sounds like AT is wondering his next more.
The last week has been REALLY tough! I’ve spent a long time learning more about myself and identifying some of the area’s Ive gone wrong and I don’t like what I see. There’s so much for me to learn and so many improvements that I still need to work on. I also really struggled when I went out with my friends the other night. I am married and I wont stray but seeing my friends hook up gave me a very lonely feeling.
