AT's wife is now learning that she is not in-charge anymore.
She probably never was.
We don't know what she's learning. We know what AT is trying to teach her but we don't know what she might learn from this. The whole "teaching a lesson" concept reeks of control and one-upmanship. Not usually the best way to build or repair a R.
CV, I agree. If I felt all those things about a person I was in a R with, I certainly would not want them back.
AT, maybe you should take your thread back in the direction you want it to go.
Guess you missed the few posts where AT thanked us men here who post to him.
But you always have selective reading turned on when there are men posting to men or have opinions that ruffle you feathers.
What is AT trying to teach her ?
That he is not some option..
Wow that is so reeking of control and one-upmanship.
I think an affair and leaving a marriage is not usually the best way to build or repair a Relationship.... but your millage may vary.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
Wow... This thread has most certainly taken on a whole new life...
CV: I'm assuming you're question of why I would want my W back with the "widely supported opinions" on my thread is rhetorical...
But just in case it's not, Let me spell it out.
Starsky is right: When W is not a "wayward"... she is/was/will be someone that I want to spend the rest of my life with.
I've spent a long time trying to figure out what it was that I did to not fulfill her needs, and I think I've been able to identify a good damn portion of those issues... I'm the first to admit (at least NOW a days) that I had a sizable part in the demise of our R... Although I STILL feel that I'd have appreciated her handling these issues a little differently... But she didn't and that's a moot point now.
I want to be with W because I know who she is, who she was, and who she CAN be... but that's not who she is today...
The small portion of your montage that came from my fingertips is mostly about me finding the self-respect that I need... The same self-respect that I had before things started to go sour and I decided that being "clingier" would help...
I know that was a mistake now... And I know that I have to show her a different LL than I had for the last year or so...
But CV... I hope you understand how hard it is to balance the fact that I WANT (so so badly) to fight for her tooth-and-nail... That I want to just drive up to central Florida and sleep outside her house until she decides that I'm the one for her... It's awfully hard to balance that with the fact that she's back with OM (Who, YES is an ex-BF... who cheated on her years and years ago when they were in a long-distance relationship).
It's hard to balance out the fact that I WANT to fight for her in this very obvious way... with the fact that she's with another man... and I can't afford to lose her respect for me... or for me to lose respect for myself.
CV... It's hard to look myself in the mirror sometimes... knowing that I'm fighting so hard for someone that's with another man right now...
BUt I know that life is hard... that sometimes people make mistakes... and that the person that my W has become over the last couple months ISN'T the real her...
I love the real her... And I believe in her... in myself... and in us...
That's why I'm willing to fight for someone that sometimes other people on this board question...
I didn't think I'd have to explain myself in a forum such as this, and I apologize if I just spent so long answering a rhetorical question... But I felt the need to write that out.
I love ME... and i love my W... I truly believe that there is a future between us... But obviously I can't guarantee that. I can guarantee that I'll do everything I can do to better myself and to work toward a new R with my wife.
And I'm sorry if that's hard for you to understand... but I won't be discouraged by ANYONE'S opinion. I know what I want for my life... and I'm coming up with a pretty solid plan for how to get it.
Or so I believe.
I'm still digesting the insanity that happened this weekend... So I can't begin to tell you my long-term plan at this point... Dark, Dim, Pursing, Friends... they're all possibilities... I just know that this weekend is too fresh in my mind... that SO many things came up in the last 48 hours... And I can't be sure what my next step will be until I've had time to figure out the license of the truck that just hit me...
And, no matter what, I still appreciate all the opinions that come around on these boards...
Pup said it best on another thread about a very good friend of ours Pearl
This is what she did :
"Look, I'm not telling you what to do. You're a grown man and you can decide to do whatever you want. I'm only telling you what I need in a mate, and it's 'X', 'Y' and 'Z'. Whether or not YOU can be those things is completely up to you. Please let me know, though."
And she did that while being very consistent about the hard boundary of "I will not be in any relationship with a third person in it."
And then she stuck to it. And he responded. ------------------------------------------------------
I have no idea why some people now want to put the questions of doubt in your head and talk you into limbo.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
I would strongly suggest you do everything you can to learn from -- and emulate -- those that have successfully saved their marriages from the rocky shores of infidelity.
Actually chatterbug, I agree with your stance on several issues you've raised re AT's situation. It's the anger, control and painting with a broad brush that is difficult to read. And so I don't read a lot of your posts, but I liked AT and his thread so, here I am.
But you always have selective reading turned on when there are men posting to men or have opinions that ruffle you feathers.
We all get ruffled feathers, hens and roosters, as it seems yours are now. We all see the world from our own personal lens based on our experiences. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree. Personal attacks are never helpful.
Should the men only post to men and women only post to women? Or should we only post when we agree with what's being said. Seems like we might lose a lot of valuable information that way. I know If I want to have a clearer picture of what's in my H's mind, I'm going to ask a male.
I don't see disagreeing or having a differing opinion as having selective reading.
I try very hard (but I'm sure I've slipped up) not to characterize men or women by saying things like "they" always do this or that, or "they all" say this or that because I don't believe that's true. I believe all behavior has meaning, and everything a person does makes sense to them so it helps to look below the surface.
AT, good luck, as I said before, you'll be fine.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Wow that is so reeking of control and one-upmanship.
I think an affair and leaving a marriage is not usually the best way to build or repair a Relationship.... but your millage may vary.
AT, about the above let me clarify it for you because this is about you.
My point is, boundaries are great I talk about boundaries a lot here because I think that's where most people get in trouble. The have no clue what boundaries are, don't know how to set them and then issues and resentments pile up and whammo, it all goes to he!!. I had no idea about personal boundaries before the BD. Imagine my surprise and delight when I discovered I could protect myself.
Boundaries shouldn't be done as a punitive measure. You state your boundary, "W, I can't be in a M while you are with OM, if you do x then I will do y" Bam, done. If she does x, you do y. No preaching, no crying, no explanation, no pleading. the boundary may be restated if that seems appropriate.
Boundaries aren't made to teach a lesson, they are to protect you. Now, the other person my learn something from the boundary but that isn't the intent and that takes some of the emotion out of it because it's not about you trying to control her, it's about you protecting yourself and her deciding to change her behavior or not. She will learn what she wants and needs to learn from the consequences, no more, no less.
AT, I expressed earlier that I don't condone your wife having an A and chatterbug is right an A is not a great way to build or repair a R. But you're beyond that now, she's had the affair, is having the affair and what you're doing now, I think, is hoping that at some point you might reconcile. If not you would have Dd her long ago, right? So hold your line, be happy with yourself and let life teach her the lessons she is ready to learn.
Control what you can control, you.
My parting words of wisdom, something I try to live by:
Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Watch your words, for they become actions. Watch your actions, for they become habits. Watch your habits, for they become character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Woody Allen once said, quoting Groucho Marx, that "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have someone like me for a member."
The response to your wife -- that you will SOMEDAY reiterate to her again -- is this:
"So let me get this straight: you responded to your unhappiness in our marriage by deciding to have an affair, and when I found out about it, I was supposed to . . . woo you? Fight for you? Be okay in an open marriage? What? I'm sorry, but not only would that violate my OWN boundaries of personal integrity, but I don't even understand how you would WANT to be married to someone who WOULD do that. Maybe your OM will be that for you, but that's not me, and frankly I LIKE me right now."
Starsky, I'm gonna need another script... because I delivered that one yesterday... practically verbatim! I literally hit every single one of those points, even the jab at OM. It's nice to feel validated... No matter the sting that is sinking in the longer this morning drags on.
Hmmmm. Well I hope you don't mind a small 2x4, but I have been reading along in this thread and have read everything from the big convo forward today and I really feel like you fell short in validating your W's emotions. It sounds to me like you spent a lot of effort telling her why she's wrong and you're right. While this is exactly what we ALL want to do with our wayward spouses, DB is quite clear in stating that it's not the right approach. Our spouses are not thinking clearly, they're in a fog. Logic and reason are on vacation. They've built a stone wall around themselves and emotions are guarding the only gate. Argue with their emotions and emotions throw another lock and chain on the gate. Validate their emotions and the gate starts to slowly rumble open. This is not about being right or saying what we want to say, it's about navigating the minefield of their crazy emotional state on their terms rather than ours. When she said she felt like you didn't fight for her, she doesn't want a lengthy explanation on why she's wrong. She wants her emotions validated. You and I both know she IS wrong, that you HAVE been fighting for her. But again, this is about her emotions and nothing else right now. Her emotions need to be validated regardless of how crazy they seem. This doesn't mean agreeing with her, it just means acknowledging how she feels and showing understanding towards that.
And now a 2x4 to the DB community, I'm surprised at all the arguing going on in this thread. The beauty of these forums is there is a diverse population here. Men and women, young and old, LBSs and even reformed WASs post here. EVERYONE has valuable input, and no opinion should be dismissed as worthless. Diverse views should all be presented here and the person in question (AT in this case) can sort through it to decide what they think works and doesn't work for their particular sitch.
