M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
You mentioned this in the old thread "I don't know what you mean by overdoing it, vis a vis the kids." You're right I shouldn't worry about her annoyance. I'll keep taking care of my kids. I don't know why, maybe she's a little jealous? this^^ is a great example of disordered unproductive thinking. I don't mean to sound like a shrink, I just want you to see this.
You say you are going to take care of your kids and not worrry about her "annoyance"/irritability OR what you think is that reaction in her (but of course that is mind reading anyhow).
Okay then DON'T! In the next sentence, you begin to speculate about HER emotions and explaining WHY SHE is acting in a way YOU are interpreting... Geez, there are so many layers of guesswork going on here, it's enough to make anyone nutty.
Just leave her alone and by that I ALSO mean, stop wondering why or how she feels anything.
I bet SHE DOES NOT KNOW WHY OR WHAT she feels....so just focus on you. You are confused too.
You have one confused person trying to decode and read the mind of someone else who is also confused...just stop the cycle.
You both need to communicate better and I'd start by doing NO mind reading. It's not easy, but it's also not complicated. Don't make this harder than it already is.
S3 is really attached to me, he says he will only sleep with me, daddy has big muscles (even though I don't lol), daddy is strong, daddy this daddy that. But W shows love to him, and I encourage him to go to W. It's not like I tell him not too. Okay this^^ is not a "problem" - so let's not borrow one. I think the issue here is non existent - and you are creating something that might not even be real or present.
Why do that?
Anyways, I'll keep what I'm doing because I'm not doing anything wrong. It feels really good that he looks up to me.
What do you mean by this? "...you MIGHT keep the NC rule for OM and GAL as if your w is a roomate and make plans for going OUT"
Yes NC rule for OM for sure.
Good. After all, What's to say? No ultimatums unless you intend to enforce them, AND without regret. You are not there yet. You may never be or ever have to be. Time reveals a lot if we let it.
But the going out part--Is this going out like on a date? no
I thought about this but really nothing like an A, but maybe just going with a female friend? Don't throw stones at me, I'm just thinking of an idea, I'd be lying if I say this didn't cross my mind. I mean what's wrong with two adults having dinner if it is set from the beginning that this is just a friendly dinner and nothing more. I don't know I'm rambling. you already know the answer to this so I'll leave it as a rhetorical question.
When you begin to rationalize these things, ask how you'd feel if it were your w saying it.
I was in the Army JAG Corps and literally 90% of my colleagues were male. Yes I had lunch with them sometimes and there were not always females around.
It CAN happen quite naturally and honestly and legitimately and never turn into an A. But my m was not in crisis either. IF it had been, I'd have known enough to avoid the situations that can easily escalate.
It's like I would NOT put myself in a hotel room with Brad Pitt (or a Brad Pitt lookalike) after I've had 3 glasses of wine. It's not that I'd PLAN on having an affair, but I'm smart enough to avoid situations that can lead to bad news.
Especially when the marriage is vulnerable.
I'll think about this more tomorrow.
Newman
None of my GAL involved individual OMs...there were classes and crowds and GROUPS that had men in them...I did not avoid them.
But I did not seek out individual males. That's not GAL; that's dating or building a r with OM.
Can't you think of more GAL activities? What is with having dinner with OW? Lunch with a co-worker MIGHT be fine...and might not. In your situation with your confusion levels and mood swings, I'd only say a happily married co-worker and even then, be careful.
Why? B/c You sound needy, so I don't know where it'd go.
I think I already gave you some ideas but you need to expand your comfort zone for GAL big time.
Or rather, push yourself OUT of the comfort zone and do something NEW.
I'm not positive you get the whole "GAL" thing. So Let me ask you this. WHY do you believe WE want you to GAL? Why do we hammer it so much?
What is the purpose of GAL, to YOU?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
You mentioned this in the old thread "I don't know what you mean by overdoing it, vis a vis the kids." You're right I shouldn't worry about her annoyance. I'll keep taking care of my kids. I don't know why, maybe she's a little jealous? this^^ is a great example of disordered unproductive thinking. I don't mean to sound like a shrink, I just want you to see this.
You say you are going to take care of your kids and not worrry about her "annoyance"/irritability OR what you think is that reaction in her (but of course that is mind reading anyhow).
Okay then DON'T! In the next sentence, you begin to speculate about HER emotions and explaining WHY SHE is acting in a way YOU are interpreting... Geez, there are so many layers of guesswork going on here, it's enough to make anyone nutty.
Just leave her alone and by that I ALSO mean, stop wondering why or how she feels anything.
I bet SHE DOES NOT KNOW WHY OR WHAT she feels....so just focus on you. You are confused too.
You have one confused person trying to decode and read the mind of someone else who is also confused...just stop the cycle.
You both need to communicate better and I'd start by doing NO mind reading. It's not easy, but it's also not complicated. Don't make this harder than it already is.
S3 is really attached to me, he says he will only sleep with me, daddy has big muscles (even though I don't lol), daddy is strong, daddy this daddy that. But W shows love to him, and I encourage him to go to W. It's not like I tell him not too. Okay this^^ is not a "problem" - so let's not borrow one. I think the issue here is non existent - and you are creating something that might not even be real or present.
Why do that?
Anyways, I'll keep what I'm doing because I'm not doing anything wrong. It feels really good that he looks up to me.
What do you mean by this? "...you MIGHT keep the NC rule for OM and GAL as if your w is a roomate and make plans for going OUT"
Yes NC rule for OM for sure.
Good. After all, What's to say? No ultimatums unless you intend to enforce them, AND without regret. You are not there yet. You may never be or ever have to be. Time reveals a lot if we let it.
But the going out part--Is this going out like on a date? no
I thought about this but really nothing like an A, but maybe just going with a female friend? Don't throw stones at me, I'm just thinking of an idea, I'd be lying if I say this didn't cross my mind. I mean what's wrong with two adults having dinner if it is set from the beginning that this is just a friendly dinner and nothing more. I don't know I'm rambling. you already know the answer to this so I'll leave it as a rhetorical question.
When you begin to rationalize these things, ask how you'd feel if it were your w saying it.
I was in the Army JAG Corps and literally 90% of my colleagues were male. Yes I had lunch with them sometimes and there were not always females around.
It CAN happen quite naturally and honestly and legitimately and never turn into an A. But my m was not in crisis either. IF it had been, I'd have known enough to avoid the situations that can easily escalate.
It's like I would NOT put myself in a hotel room with Brad Pitt (or a Brad Pitt lookalike) after I've had 3 glasses of wine. It's not that I'd PLAN on having an affair, but I'm smart enough to avoid situations that can lead to bad news.
Especially when the marriage is vulnerable.
I'll think about this more tomorrow.
Newman
None of my GAL involved individual OMs...there were classes and crowds and GROUPS that had men in them...I did not avoid them.
But I did not seek out individual males. That's not GAL; that's dating or building a r with OM.
Can't you think of more GAL activities? What is with having dinner with OW? Lunch with a co-worker MIGHT be fine...and might not. In your situation with your confusion levels and mood swings, I'd only say a happily married co-worker and even then, be careful.
Why? B/c You sound needy, so I don't know where it'd go.
I think I already gave you some ideas but you need to expand your comfort zone for GAL big time.
Or rather, push yourself OUT of the comfort zone and do something NEW.
I'm not positive you get the whole "GAL" thing. So Let me ask you this. WHY do you believe WE want you to GAL? Why do we hammer it so much?
What is the purpose of GAL, to YOU?
25,
I'll update more later, but here's another mindreading from W regarding kids. I was on my way out to the store and I wanted to take the kids and her remarks "You don't have to take them if they don't want to, I'm not going to do anything to them". So I explained to her that that's not my intentions taking the kids or spending time with them it just the kids have been home all day and wanted them to get out of the house, I never once thought that she will do anything with the kids. She didn't comment and I left. I'm just not sure where she's getting this idea? Any thoughts? You're right though this is mindreading and I will let it go, but it just really made me think.
About the GAL involving OW, I'm dropping that. I had lunch with our group again last Friday, and that OW made some comments to me that I felt uncomfortable and will not put myself in a situation where it spell bad news.
And then regarding this:
WHY do you believe WE want you to GAL? Why do we hammer it so much?
What is the purpose of GAL, to YOU?
I have to think about this one. I am having trouble GALing alone because of my fears of what W would think and blame me further.
I think the purpose is so that I can get my mind off the sitch to keep my sanity and so that I would feel better about myself.
Am I off?
on an unrelated topic--really another lawyer?! I had a feeling though I think I read somewhere that you mentioned you are a lawyer...It's just i read so may sitch here and I can't remember which one was it
25 good to hear from you.
Newman
me40; W43 M18; T~20 D18; S13 & S3 bomb 5/9/11 EA busted 4/30/12; 9/4/12; 4/29/13; 6/10/13 same OM
Separated 4/1/14
"Even a flicker of light will shine through darkness-12/25/2012"....better days ahead.
What a day. I don't even know what to make out of this but probably just nothing.
Yesterday I GAL'd and enjoyed that company of my buddy. We had a good time had a few drinks and played some cards with his cousins. It did took away my mind off the sitch even for just a few hours. I felt like the time when I was single and just hanging out with my friends. I felt a little uncomfortable but it was fine, I'm just not used to it. I came home before my W and kids, but when she got home she did ask me if I ate dinner--that was nice of her.
Today, was strange. I think I would count it as a "good sign". We were hanging out in the LR watching TV. D17 had gone out and S13 was in his room.
That left me with S3 and W in LR. We were talking it was nice and the program we were watching finished. So I reached for the TV remote which was near her and for some reason I got really close to her and I gently reached for her face and looked intently in her eyes and I gave her a kiss on the lips! I tried to fight this with all my might but I couldn't. She didn't push me away and I thought she even kissed me back. After the kiss (it's really a peck on the lips), I hugged her and I said I missed you so much! She hugged me back and S3 went near us and she also hugged S3 for about 5 seconds and then she said "Ok". I read that as that's enough. I backed off then we watched the next movie.
Whew, so now I'm more confused than ever! I'm counting this as no big deal but I think it is a good sign and it was probably just a spurt of a moment thing. I'm happy though and on cloud 9 at the moment.
Then an hour after that I left to go to the store and that's where she made a comment about the kids.
Any thoughts?
Newman
me40; W43 M18; T~20 D18; S13 & S3 bomb 5/9/11 EA busted 4/30/12; 9/4/12; 4/29/13; 6/10/13 same OM
Separated 4/1/14
"Even a flicker of light will shine through darkness-12/25/2012"....better days ahead.
'll update more later, but here's another mindreading from W regarding kids. STOP the mindreading! Don't do more of it....please, stop the cycle and that has to begin with you. She is not here posting. You are.
I was on my way out to the store and -------- So I explained to her that that's not my intentions taking the kids or spending time with them it just the kids have been home all day and---I'm just not sure where she's getting this idea? Any thoughts? You're right though this is mindreading and I will let it go, but it just really made me think. "Made" you think...think what? That you both mind read and dont' speak clearly or directly or to each other? That's what I got out of this post. The mind reading is so inefficient. I would not waste ANY time on it....for real. NONE.
About the GAL involving OW, I'm dropping that. I had lunch with our group again last Friday, and that OW made some comments to me that I felt uncomfortable and will not put myself in a situation where it spell bad news. Good. Enough said, I hope. Maybe next year. Women will still exist if and when your marriage is over. Trust me on that. And you will be in a much better position to date if you work on yourself and the marriage FIRST...
And then regarding this:
WHY do you believe WE want you to GAL? Why do we hammer it so much?
What is the purpose of GAL, to YOU?
I have to think about this one. I am having trouble GALing alone because of my fears of what W would think and blame me further. GAL is not done alone. Oh Sure, you may work out and exercise or get therapy, "alone" - but otherwise, GAL is not done alone. IMO, it mandates OTHER PEOPLE in your life.
I think the purpose is so that I can get my mind off the sitch to keep my sanity and so that I would feel better about myself.
Am I off? Not completely. GAL is done for several reasons and we hammer it for those reasons.
Not said in any order, here the reasons I think we GAL:
1) To get/stay busy so we don't obsess, which is protective of ourselves.
2) to help us detach (see above)
3) to do things WE wanted to do anyhow, like our own "bucket list" b/c it helps our self esteem AND our social life
4) the more we learn to life our self esteem, the healthier we become
5) the more we GAL, the more interestING and interestED we become, as individuals
6) the more we GAL and meet OPs, the more our WAS MAY find us less predictable. That is usually a good thing. It's occasionally a great thing.
7) the more we GAL and meet OPs, the stronger we feel about ourselves (because we ARE stronger and more aware of our gifts)
AND the better, more attractive partners WE become.
on an unrelated topic--really another lawyer?! I had a feeling though I think I read somewhere that you mentioned you are a lawyer...It's just i read so may sitch here and I can't remember which one was it
25 good to hear from you. Hope this helps.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thanks 25 it does help. Ok no more mindreading, I'll try to recognize it. Unconsciously I'm doing it and so as her. But I can stop that cycle.
Today's temperature more hugs and kisses. I know I'm not out of the woods yet. It's not like I'm planning these things but it just happens. Like this morning, she overslept so I woke her up got close to her again and it happened again.
I am still giving her space around the house and of course the new me around the kids, I don't even call it 180 anymore it's just me being a better father than before.
I don't know what I feel, I know I'm not complaining. I don't want to mindread anymore I'll let you guys read my sitch.
Newman
me40; W43 M18; T~20 D18; S13 & S3 bomb 5/9/11 EA busted 4/30/12; 9/4/12; 4/29/13; 6/10/13 same OM
Separated 4/1/14
"Even a flicker of light will shine through darkness-12/25/2012"....better days ahead.
I'm a little confuse here...tonight after talking about how uncomfortable the extra bed in s13's room I told W she can sleep in MBR. She then ask me where would I sleep? I told her well same bed on my side. I ask her if she want me to and she told me its up to me.
The giving "space" i think is working by sleeping separate rooms, do you guys think it's too soon or should I keep giving her that "space" and sleep in s3s room?
I really think that we are close to ML but I think I should wait it out more. I can't believe I'm saying wait it out on ML--WTH
I just don't wanna mess up these positives...
Are her walls coming down? Do I keep backing off and build more on this and sit on this for a while?
I'm not complaining just need some guidance--is this normal for WAS?
Newman
me40; W43 M18; T~20 D18; S13 & S3 bomb 5/9/11 EA busted 4/30/12; 9/4/12; 4/29/13; 6/10/13 same OM
Separated 4/1/14
"Even a flicker of light will shine through darkness-12/25/2012"....better days ahead.
Hey Newman, it was the opposite for me. I slept in the spare bedroom for going on 5 months. I thought that my H wanted things back to normal and ML, but I couldn't be 100% sure (no mindreading). In the end, after much waiting it out and giving it as much time as I thought necessary, I had to take that leap of faith. I had to rely on his signals, like when he stood and watched me in the shower. I didn't want to get it wrong so I waited and waited. He would never ask me, I knew better than that.
In the end it paid off. I went to the MBR and said I don't want to sleep downstairs anymore and I want a man to ML to me. I jumped into bed thinking he would move out or complain. He didn't and one thing led to another and I've been there ever since.
As far as your W. You would know a women's physical needs are not the same as a man's (usually). It might be nice if you take it slow with some affection like a cuddle or caress and see where that leads rather than having too much expectation about the ML. If she's not ready you will know. Its important you don't take it personally. She may just need more tme. Back off again and keep doing what you have been doing.
Thanks Galbaby. That's the word "take it slow". Our arrangement during this ordeal is to take turns in MBR, last night was W turn. Even though she gave me an option I slept in the extra bed in s13 room.
I'm not 100% sure she wants to ML but there are signs or perhaps it's more of the little physical touch here and there. She hasn't let me caress her like this since the bomb last year. It's always been the cold rejection.
Yes I will build up on this, it's only been 3 days since I notice these positives. I don't want to get set up and get hurt by her if this is just her roller coaster ride.
I will continue to give her space and back off. I will continue to be spontaneous on the physical aspect if the sitch allows it.
I'll see what today brings.
Newman
me40; W43 M18; T~20 D18; S13 & S3 bomb 5/9/11 EA busted 4/30/12; 9/4/12; 4/29/13; 6/10/13 same OM
Separated 4/1/14
"Even a flicker of light will shine through darkness-12/25/2012"....better days ahead.
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