Still together but trying to save this

[PeteWyo]

So I had a fun night out with friends last night. Didn't think about anything or dwell on anything. It was nice to get out and just have some fun, it felt somewhat normal. I was thinking back on something that my mother-in-law told me about her divorce. She told me that she wouldn't have made it through if she didn't have someone to help her through it. She had a guy that she hung out with that was just there for her as a friend as a shoulder to cry on. I don't have that right now. I struggle with that a little bit because she ended up getting remarried to the guy that was helping her through that time. I guess my question is that is there anything wrong with finding someone to share my struggles with, as a friend? I have no intention of looking for love or for anything other than just someone to talk to. But I am lonely and it would be nice to have someone to talk to. Anyone have a similar experience???

[Grocerykartman]

Fuanacdc,

I see you've posted quite a few posts in row without any responses, and I know that can be disheartening. I wanted to write something to you, but had a hard time figuring out what. Couldn't put my finger on why I couldn't come up with something. So I read your posts again in totality, looking for a pattern or tone or something in them to go on. And here's what I think:

A lot of the questions you are asking and statements you are making actually are questions and statements that I'm not sure anyone on the board can give you a better answer on than you, yourself can. This is a good thing, and I'll explain why in a minute. But for now, here are some examples:

It is looking more and more like my boss would like me to move back that way and develop a new market for the business. It makes a ton of sense to me except for the fact that my wife is here. Any advice? Do I stay here and stick it out or find a new job or take the opportunity to go be with family and friends and have the job opportunity? I'm so torn!

and,

Everything has always been so structured for me, now I feel like I'm in the wind a bit. I think this will end up being good for me.

and,

I guess my question is that is there anything wrong with finding someone to share my struggles with, as a friend? I have no intention of looking for love or for anything other than just someone to talk to.

I for one see your perspective evolving at a nice pace here. Because you get that there is an independent life you can have outside of your wife here, and you're just not sure if you should engage in it. You have options for your job, you have friends you can go out with, and you even see that this is an experience that is making you a better person, even though its heartbrteaking while you're going through it.

If you were my very best friend, I'm not sure I could give you a clear cut answer, advice, or even have a lot to add on to any of your quotes I reposted. Comes right down to what you WANT to do.

I know you said moving back would likely mean that that would kill all hope of reconciling with your wife. (Heck, long distance relationships often, if not usually, don't work out anyway when things are good between people) But, I don't necessarily see you taking the job as anti-DBing. I could see taking the job as GALing, but on a grander scale than many GAL'ers do. Depends on what you want to do really. If you stayed and DB'ed where you are currently, you can always hold you head up high, if it ultimately works or if it doesn't. If you leave, you can hold your head up high too because you got a life, just again, on that grander scale.

You also asked about whether or not you should find someone to share your struggles with? I would say, only you know if that's right for you. Sounds like you want to. But for the right reasons, meaning you want to talk to someone for YOU and not to necessarily make a point to your wife or get a reaction from her. I am also confifent you would sense how far a friendship could escalate before it would cross the line from DBing (keeping in mind you are separated) to misbehaving (also keeping in mind you are still married)

In short, fuan, you're doing better than you might think with all this, with the caveat that you are lucky enough to have perspective and options too. Lots of LBS's don't have nearly as healthy or fulfilling ways to take their minds off things.

Ultimately, you will know what is right for you on these heavier, crossroads type questions. Definitely better than a poster like myself will, I believe. My best to you.

[PeteWyo]

Thank you GKM. I was getting a little disheartened. I thought to myself that no one was answering because my situation was hopeless. I do have a lot of decisions to make. I'm not sure what I can do. And to add to what you said, I asked my actual best friend what he would do and he didn't have an answer either. I hate that. I am good at making informed decisions, I am good at making the call when I know what's best but I honestly don't know. I have the opportunity to make some decisions that are going to change my life permanently and I don't know what is right. I have to do something. I am usually a man of action and I feel that I need to do something but for the first time in my life I have no idea. My IC also told me that this was something that I needed to work on. I have always lived my life to a plan. I always thought I had control over what happened in my life. I know now that I have zero control over anything. I believe that God is in control of my life and que sera sera. It is hard for me to let go, I think that is maybe one of my biggest issues. But I have reserved myself to the fact that I have no idea what is best for me. This is corny but I heard a song lyric that made a lot of sense to me. "What if all you understand, Could fit into the center of our hand, Then you found it wasn't you, Who held the sum of everything you knew". Great Soundgarden song by the way. I want to crawl into a ball and make it all end most times but I find the strength to pull through and I know that with or with out her (I know, a silly U2 lyric too) I will be ok. Life goes on. I just wish it was with my wife, my soulmate.

[PeteWyo]

I'm not sure what has changed but I am starting to feel very depressed. I was upset and anxious before but now I am just kind of down on everything. Today in particular I am starting to notice it more. I had a pretty vivid dream last night that I woke up crying from. I thought things would get easier and better as time went on, but for some reason or another I've taken a bit if a step back here. I suppose there will always be good days and bad from now on.

[Denver_2010]

Fu - I read through your sitch the other day and just didn't have the time to reply in full.

It will get better with time. You really have just started with this. Be patient. It is true that time heals all.

Listen man, everyone here understands what you are going through. I went through it, and many are in the middle of going through it. So, you are not alone.

I have some questions for you. Some of them you may have answered in previous posts, so I apologize if I am being redundant.

1) Curious about what you do for a living. May not be something you want to answer though.

2) Do you know the status of the OM and your W? If so, what is it?

3) have you actually read divorce remedy? Specifically the chapters about the Last Resort Technique and Infidelity?

4) Are you on medication for your anxiety? If not, have you looked into it? And if so, do you think that the medication working?

One thing that I see that is conspicuously missing from all of the posts on your thread is the question:

5) What did you do to contribute to what is happening to your M?

I realize that your anxiety issues were a big part... but what about them? How how has your anxiety caused you to behave?

It is usually the symptoms of mental health issues that cause problems, not the diagnosis of mental health issues... make sense?

I ask that question because I don't see what 180's your are doing.

I'm sure that I have more to add, but let's get the answers to these questions first.

[PeteWyo]

Thanks for the post Denver. I will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

1) I'm in sales (of sorts).

2) I have no idea what the status of the OM and my W are. She doesn't really try to reach out to me at all. I haven't heard her voice in weeks and she only sends me a text message once in a great while. Since he is one of very few people that she has, even as a friend, around here I'm sure they spend quite a bit of time together. Doing what, I have no idea.

3) I have read DB not DR.

4) I have been on a low dose of Xanax for a while now. My IC thinks I might want to talk to my doc about upping the dose, at least if nothing else until I can get things sorted out in my head. I plan on doing that soon. Honestly, my anxiety has been much much better since I have been open an honest with people about it. Talk to my IC has helped a lot to get things off my chest that were causing me anxiety.

5) My anxiety caused me to be uncomfortable in social situations. It caused me to grin and bear situations rather than actually having fun and enjoy them and in the worst cases caused me to stay home while my wife was out having fun. I would stay home to avoid even having been in a situation where something would get triggered. When I was forced to be in social situations (e.g. Christmas) I was not really all there. I was mentally trying to suppress the uncomfortable feelings that I was having while not trying to be rude. So people would talk to me and I would give short, half answers to them. I really just wanted to get back into my "comfort zone" and was just going through the motions. I didn't really understand what was going on and worse yet was in denial that I even had any psychological or behavioral issues. In my mind it was physical and it was something that I had to figure out. Looking back after this eye opening experience, it is a lot easier to see all the times that I was distant or not engaged in conversation. I wasn't taking the time to enjoy my W and my marriage. She saw the pattern as well but we never talked about it. She told me that she thought that any time that I didn't want to do something that she wanted to do, I would just tell her that I "didn't feel good." Which was true in a sense because I would get that anxious feeling of dread when we were in a lot of social situations so I can see where she is coming from or how it could have seemed to her.

5) I am doing the biggest 180 that I can do. I am making amends with all of the people that knew me over the last 2 or 3 years and admitting to them that I have an anxiety issue. I am making an effort to hang out with friends and family as much as possible. I find that finally admitting to MYSELF that I had this issue has helped a ton. I still find myself in social situations where I am uncomfortable and I need to take a deep breath and tell myself that this is something that I developed. It is a learned behavior over 2 or 3 years and I can just as easily unlearn it and get back to the social butterfly (or whatever the more manly equivalent is) that I have been for my entire life.

[Denver_2010]

Thanks for the post Denver. I will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

1) I'm in sales (of sorts).

You are welcome. Sales is generally a job where you have to be pretty social. How do you deal with that with your anxiety?

2) I have no idea what the status of the OM and my W are. She doesn't really try to reach out to me at all. I haven't heard her voice in weeks and she only sends me a text message once in a great while. Since he is one of very few people that she has, even as a friend, around here I'm sure they spend quite a bit of time together. Doing what, I have no idea.

What does she say when she texts you? I would suggest that you post contacts with your W here as detailed as possible. Especially when they are sparse. It helps for us to have as much info as possible, and it will help you track progress if there is any.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall reading that the OM is a mutual friend of both you and your W, right? He was a former fiancee of one of her friends? I hope that I'm not getting you confused. I read quite a few different threads around here.

If I am right about the above, then I'm correct in assuming that you know the OM well enough to tell us a bit about him. How are the two of you similar? How are you different? A's occur because the cheating spouse is not getting some need met with her/his spouse. Usually. What do you think that your W gets from her R with OM that she was not getting from you?

I know that thinking about this stuff hurts, but you need to understand the dynamics of what is happening before you can ever hope to come up with a strategy that may help your cause. Information is always useful to those of us who are trying to help you.

Lastly on the OM issue... unfortunately, it is very unlikely that you have any chance to reconcile as long as the OM is in the picture. The good news is that most A's do not last. Also good news is that marriages can recover and even be better. There are a number of success stories here on this board. Jack3beans, Starsky/Puppy, LITB, to name a few. Mine is still pretty fresh, but my W moved back home in June. It seems that it is on the path for success. I suggest reading the threads of those who have been successful. While it will not give you the magic potion to fix your marriage, it will give you a road map. There is lots to learn from the people who have gone through this. AND, you will find that most of the stories have A LOT of similarities. Also, the path that most of us who have been successful as been somewhat similar.

3) I have read DB not DR.

Read Divorce Remedy. It is much better and more specific, IMO. Specifically, the chapters on the Last Resort Technique and Infidelity.

4) I have been on a low dose of Xanax for a while now. My IC thinks I might want to talk to my doc about upping the dose, at least if nothing else until I can get things sorted out in my head. I plan on doing that soon. Honestly, my anxiety has been much much better since I have been open an honest with people about it. Talk to my IC has helped a lot to get things off my chest that were causing me anxiety.

I'm not a psychologist, but I would check into some meds that are more of a daily anti-anxiety, anti-depression, type of drug. I may be completely off base, but I feel some depression from you when I read your posts. I would highly suggest just talking to your doc about it if it is even a possibility. I found a better anti-depression med during my S from my W and it has helped a lot.

One thing to keep in mind is that NO ONE wants to be with someone who is down and depressed all of the time. A downer. If this is an issue, address it. You need to attract your W again... that means making some changes. Being happy and fun is always a good place to start. Not just for your M's sake, but for YOU.

5) My anxiety caused me to be uncomfortable in social situations. It caused me to grin and bear situations rather than actually having fun and enjoy them and in the worst cases caused me to stay home while my wife was out having fun. I would stay home to avoid even having been in a situation where something would get triggered. When I was forced to be in social situations (e.g. Christmas) I was not really all there. I was mentally trying to suppress the uncomfortable feelings that I was having while not trying to be rude. So people would talk to me and I would give short, half answers to them. I really just wanted to get back into my "comfort zone" and was just going through the motions. I didn't really understand what was going on and worse yet was in denial that I even had any psychological or behavioral issues. In my mind it was physical and it was something that I had to figure out. Looking back after this eye opening experience, it is a lot easier to see all the times that I was distant or not engaged in conversation. I wasn't taking the time to enjoy my W and my marriage. She saw the pattern as well but we never talked about it. She told me that she thought that any time that I didn't want to do something that she wanted to do, I would just tell her that I "didn't feel good." Which was true in a sense because I would get that anxious feeling of dread when we were in a lot of social situations so I can see where she is coming from or how it could have seemed to her.

Your W sounds like a very social person? So she is naturally going to be attracted to someone who is also that way, or who can at least enjoy those situations with her. How were you about this when you first met her? What made her fall in love with you? You need to find that person again. I'm also guessing that OM is more social than you??

5) I am doing the biggest 180 that I can do. I am making amends with all of the people that knew me over the last 2 or 3 years and admitting to them that I have an anxiety issue. I am making an effort to hang out with friends and family as much as possible. I find that finally admitting to MYSELF that I had this issue has helped a ton. I still find myself in social situations where I am uncomfortable and I need to take a deep breath and tell myself that this is something that I developed. It is a learned behavior over 2 or 3 years and I can just as easily unlearn it and get back to the social butterfly (or whatever the more manly equivalent is) that I have been for my entire life.

That is all great. Your 180s have to be for you. Things that you want to change so that in this life. So that you can enjoy life. A couple of 180s that I think that you ought to consider if possible:

1) Start getting out in social situations. Your W will no doubt begin to hear about what you are doing. Do you facebook? Obviously, I'm not telling you to do something that you don't want to do for yourself, or that you can't do, but I think that it would help your situation. I also think that it would help you... GAL (get a life). Lots of stuff on GAL and why it is important.

2) Simply being happy. ESPECIALLY any time that you have contact with your W. Trust me, I know that this is easier said than done under these circumstances. I believe that it is imperative though. One thing that you will see mentioned a lot on here is the saying, "fake it til you make it"... or, "act as if"... actually two different things, but both relevant to your mood and demeanor. If you begin to act happy, even when you are not, it is weird how it eventually begins to actually make you happy. Again... fake it and act as if anytime that you have contact with your W. When texting or emailing, I find a good "LOL" or " " or exclamation mark can go a long way! LOL, You want your W to see that you are excited about life, that you are happy, fun...

[PeteWyo]

I actually do pretty well in social situations involving work. I don't really know what to think about it actually. I even talked to my therapist about that. I seem not to have anxiety when my mind is occupied. If I am doing something like giving a presentation or something in a group of people I seem to be fine. Sometimes I just can't get my brain to stop. I start thinking about something and imagine the worse case scenario and then obsess about it until I am immobilized with dread and anxiety. It is a bit hard to explain/understand unless you have felt it.

You are correct about the OM. He was a mutual friend of ours. The only thing that I can think of that he has that I don't is my wife. Seriously, I was so caught up in my own head that I didn't spend time enjoying my W and my M. I get that. He was there as a friend like I was in the beginning. They would laugh and have a great time while I was stressing out or avoiding people at home. He is actually a bit of a known womanizer and now apparently a convincing liar too. He has also been the OM in at least 2 relationships now, seems to be his MO. He broke up his most recent fiancee's marriage as well. She was married for a short period of time until he entered the picture. Whatever.

I am exploring other medications as well as traditional psychotherapy. At least I have a stop gap med that helps me if I start to feel this way again.

She is someone that cares more about how other people are feeling and what other people think than herself. She does like to be out and about, as did I before I developed this condition.
Actually, the OM is not, he is a bit of a homebody. At least he has been since I have known him. Where as I was only that way recently (increasingly so in the past couple of years).

I HAVE been going out. Even before my W moved out I was getting out all the time. Since I have aired out my anxiety issues to everyone I have been very social, much like I was a few years ago when I met everyone. That problem has essentially been solved by me admitting to myself that I had this issue. Now being happy is another story. I almost started crying when I went to lunch in the restaurant that I asked her father for his permission to marry my W the other day. I have the ability to detach but things like that sneak up on me and I can't help myself. I can certainly fake it, and to be honest I am a much better person and happier person since I have addressed and acknowledged these issues. Just bittersweet since I can't share that with my W.

[PeteWyo]

So Denver, I have been taking your advice and adding some levity to my text messages . We will see how that goes. I mentioned to her that a band i really like is playing for free at a local venue and added a smiley and some exclamation points. She responded with a question of whether I was going with work friends. I just said no because we don't have the same taste in music. She said she hopes i go either way because she knows I really like them. I only post this because you said it would be helpful if I posted some specifics about our text conversations...

[Denver_2010]

You are correct about the OM. He was a mutual friend of ours. The only thing that I can think of that he has that I don't is my wife. Seriously, I was so caught up in my own head that I didn't spend time enjoying my W and my M. I get that. He was there as a friend like I was in the beginning. They would laugh and have a great time while I was stressing out or avoiding people at home.

Then what is he giving your W that you had not been? I have my thoughts, but I want you to think about this. It is key to understanding.

He is actually a bit of a known womanizer and now apparently a convincing liar too. He has also been the OM in at least 2 relationships now, seems to be his MO. He broke up his most recent fiancee's marriage as well. She was married for a short period of time until he entered the picture. Whatever.

Okay. Well, hopefully your W will see that in time. But you can't control that, make her see it, or expedite it.

Don't focus on OM. Focus on what you CAN control. YOU.

I am exploring other medications as well as traditional psychotherapy. At least I have a stop gap med that helps me if I start to feel this way again.

That is good. They can be very helpful.

I HAVE been going out. Even before my W moved out I was getting out all the time. Since I have aired out my anxiety issues to everyone I have been very social, much like I was a few years ago when I met everyone. That problem has essentially been solved by me admitting to myself that I had this issue.

Do you facebook or use twitter? You GAL for you. So that you feel better. However, I think that when we're also trying to save our M, that we want the WAW to see our GAL. We want to create mystery and curiosity.

One fairly easy way to do that is to post on FB and twitter. But you can't be obvious about it.

And again, I'd always, always be happy and cheerful with all posts or tweets.

Now being happy is another story. I almost started crying when I went to lunch in the restaurant that I asked her father for his permission to marry my W the other day. I have the ability to detach but things like that sneak up on me and I can't help myself. I can certainly fake it, and to be honest I am a much better person and happier person since I have addressed and acknowledged these issues. Just bittersweet since I can't share that with my W.

Nobody expects this to be the best time of your life. We have all been there. GALing and time will help with this. And, like I said, faking it sometimes seems to help. It's almost like we develop habits. A habit of being happy, or a habit of being unhappy. Develop a habit of being happy... even if you don't feel that way in the moment. Make sense?