My Most Important Week Yet

[Denver_2010]

I'm happy that you understand that you take the DB guidelines and the advice that you get here and you tailor all of it to fit your unique sitch. When we first come here, it is all very overwhelming. Then when you get multiple opinions about something that all differ, it can become difficult to make your own decisions. I know for a fact that I frustrated the hell out of some of those who were helping me because I didn't follow the advice line for line all of the time... probably no one more so than Starsky. But I came to believe that we have to use our instincts. I think that you are learning to do that.

The only reason that I have been so outspoken about Crazy's posts on your thread is because I agree with what Starsky said. It won't work. That's my opinion of course, but it is a strong one. There may come a time when her way may fit the situation, or it may be you have to try it if this turns out to be a cheeseless tunnel. I do think that you need to be consistent and give whatever strategy you pick enough time to assess its effectiveness.

[Starsky309]

Not insulted at all, CV. I just think your advice won't work.

CV, this was a little harsh, and I apologize. It was late, I'd had a couple glasses of wine, and was posting on my iPhone and too lazy to type more. And I was EXHAUSTED from one helluva week that had my wife going to the emergency room TWICE (kidney stone) and my father-in-law once (stroke).

I may not agree with your advice, but that doesn't give me the right to be a terse ass.


Starsky

[labug]

Wow, Alk, you've hit page 1 for about 3-4 days running!

Here's my take, there is no science to any of this. There is opinion and conjecture which is fun and sometimes informative and can be instructive. Most is based on experience from each individual's situation so we might know what did or didn't work for them in their unique situation. May not work for you, just might. You get to be the judge.

Here's another problem, what does "worked" mean, what does "marriage saved" mean. One person's saved marriage may not look like a saved marriage to me or you.

You've worked to change the things you want to change, the things you knew you needed to change. You are happy with yourself, proud of yourself, for the most part. From your writing here you seem to be an intelligent, well-spoken man who is tolerant and will listen to differing viewpoints and opinions. I think I've seen a glimmer of a sense of humor. I'll bet you have friends who really like you. You're working on living with uncertainty and fear, instead of running from them.

Live your life from within that framework. Don't veer too far from your center and only you know what that is.

Keep working on you, because this growth doesn't, or shouldn't stop. Always question what others say and most importantly, always question yourself.

You'll be fine. Listen to that small still voice inside you. You've probably been ignoring it for a long time.

You'll be fine.

[AlkalineThoughts]

Labug. Thank you for this post. I needed to read this today! You're absolutely right about learning to live with uncertainty and fear and staying centered. Although it's a daily struggle, I know it's always worth it, no matter the outcome.

Yesterday I "Gave myself permission" to just lounge around the house doing absolutely nothing but clearing my head and spending some quality time with my puppy... Around 6 pm, I'd decided enough was enough... as my head didn't seem to be clearing much, rather getting more cluttered with every now missing thing I noticed... I figured I'd cried enough for one day and it was time to just get out for a few hours.

I'm glad I did... As I stopped over at a friend's house who just happened to be having a big group of people over... We spent a few hours chatting, watching the U get stomped by Notre Dame and just enjoying company... Strangely enough, once someone found out I was a writer, they immediately ran to their car, grabbed a stack of poetry they'd written and asked me for my input on it!

I got home around midnight, spent an hour or so on these boards trying to "give back" to the people here as best as I can, had a couple drinks and fell asleep.

My dreams were loaded with W and an unrealized future... but it was just strange enough to be more funny than sad. It's not every day you dream about your W bringing a screaming goat home and insisting we dress it in corduroy pants!

I woke up to the same now-emptier house once again acutely aware of the silence... but I'm not letting it get me down. The echoes of my W's voice and the things she said... the conversations we had... have begun to balance out a little bit... For every "negative" thing I remember her saying, I'm able to balance it out with something that seemed hopeful... and then I take both of those thoughts and try to realize how futile this analysis is.

I'll be heading out in about an hour for my Sunday ritual of watching concussion-porn (my new favorite term for football) all day with a few friends.

And I know that today is a new day, and tomorrow... well I'll bet that one's gonna be new too! So long as I can keep taking baby steps forward... I'll be fine... even if I fall and scrape my knees now and again.

[needgrace]

Beautiful post, Bug.

AT, bug is right on as usual. there are so many conflicting views on here that it can make your head spin sometimes.

sit with it all... there is so much about our sitches that is just plain out of our control. learning to be okay with you, with this uncertainty and deciding who you want to be in the world.. that we can control.

(((((((((( ))))))))))))

[chatterbug]

See CV I think you are posting advice to AT on what you want to happen in your life.

See one thing we do know is that AT was clingy and it did not work.

The other thing we know is that his wife likes to play the blame game with AT.

The other thing we know is that AT needed to learn that he is not an option.

You see one big thing in all this DB'ing is that you are negotiating with your spouse what is acceptable and what is not.

So if your going to let him play daddy and husband for a couple hours a day. Light up like he is the most important person in the world when he is cheating on you. Guess what. He is going to enjoy the free food. Think the kids and you are ok with it then go live his life again. He also learns that if he breaks up with the OM that he can just come home. Expect you to keep with the focusing on him as the centre of your universe. And the moment you do not. He steps out again to put you back in your place.


AT's wife is now learning that she is not in-charge anymore. That she cannot just go do what ever the heck she wants without any consequences. She is learning that AT is not going to fix her issues. He is not going to embrace her with open arms the moment she says he should.

She is going to feel the concept of Loss. She is going to lose AT. Unless she works hard on herself to improve the person she is. Cause at this moment she is a horrible wife and a cheater. She has the choice to work or be lazy. If she does not feel the concept of loss then truly AT is better off without her. Just a bad choice and AT will need to work on making sure he does not get involved with another woman who has those traits.

Most people will take the lazy path with you if you let them.

[Crazyville]

See CV I think you are posting advice to AT on what you want to happen in your life.

There was a time when I wanted that to happen, though not anymore (too much water under the bridge.) I believe perhaps AT's wife did too, at one point, based upon what she said, though there may be too much water under the bridge for her as well. I think I'm just posting from the perspective of a WAS instead of a LBS, which by default, will make my perspective different than most. AT needs to choose what works for him and throw away the rest.

See one thing we do know is that AT was clingy and it did not work.

I disagree. As someone said in an earlier post, it was good for her at one time. Instead, I see the dynamic more like this:
AT: Here's some affection...
AT's W: Thanks, but what I really need is LLx.
AT: Oh, okay, here's some more affection.
AT's wife: You're not hearing me, what I need is LLx.
AT: I hear you. You need LLx. Here's some more affection.
AT's wife: I don't want your freakin' affection!!! I want LLx!!
AT: Sure you do, it's wonderful, have some more.
AT's wife: I HATE your f'in affection! I'm leaving so I can get some LLx!!

There's a lot of talk on here about LL's (love languages.) We all need some of each, but we also each have our priorities. I doubt sincerely that AT's W was opposed to AT's affection, simply that it wasn't her priority LL, and her priority LL wasn't being met. The problem with thinking the OP will eventually just fizzle out is that that person might actually be meeting the WAS spouse's LL needs. They don't have to be perfect, just better. Apparently, W's OM exhibits something that looks more like "fighting for her" than AT's affection does. (Is the OM the ex BF?)

If DB advises doing 180's, in order to address the WAS's complaints, then how is going dark addressing the complaint that AT didn't fight for her? Cleanliness? Sure, clean up more. Working too much? Sure, cut your hours. Dumping the responsibility of the kids too much? Sure, take them to the park or a movie, spend more time with them.

But responding to her complaining that she doesn't like it in c. Fla by offering more affection? Or responding to her complaint that you didn't fight for her by going dark? These actions just don't make sense to me. Maybe I'm falling prey to "believing what she says." I've never been one much for playing games and admit I don't do them well.

I put together a little montage of the comments made about your wife/sitch, in this thread alone:
Do not be second any more; she is disrespectful to you; she will only lie anyway; I wouldn't believe her if she denied it anyway; I will not debase myself and compromise who I am to try and save our M any longer; This is also a woman who, when the going got tough... well she left; Stop being afraid of losing a poor partner; She left you; She blamed you; She is involved in an inappropriate relationship with another man; She does not have the decency to follow through on her actions and file; I won't let myself suffer for things I can't change; Why would I want to be with someone who I have to CONVINCE to be with me?; She would have a few weeks of ML and letting you all touchy freely around her and then she would shut it all down again; I know others will tell you not to leave her there alone, and I agree if you don't trust that she will only take what has been agreed upon; I keep finding out that she means more to me than I do to her; At this point, she doesn't want to be with me... She doesn't want to work things out... She thinks she is happier now than she has ever been (and maybe she's right); Believe I deserve more than this; so I say again, who gives a F about where she stands?; she isn't going to change her behavior because or you or anything that you say or do; She is a roommate who skipped on rent and used you as a storage facility; And yea when she leaves you will be Whisky Tango Foxtrot; with reference to the pictures? Just pack'em up for her and tell her she can have them coz' you no longer need them; Give nothing . . . EXPECT nothing; This line about not fighting for her, don't give it a second thought. I got it too... and it is B.S.; And yes, in MANY ways, what the WAS is doing is crazy... delusional; She was actually her natural self ... HER PROBLEM = COMPLAINT = YOU CHANGE SOLUTION; And MAYBE it wasn't the right technique to bring her back to the M...But it WAS the right technique to get me where I am today; I can't continue pursuing someone who hurts me consistently; emotionally healthy relationships aren't that fragile; she'll know you're there waiting for her to be done with her fun; You see she got used to you failing her s*%t tests; No doubt she has never had someone ignore her or call her out on her s*%t test. This is a lesson you need to learn for the rest of your life for all women do them; One thing you need to think about as well is if you do decide to get back together is if you can live with the disrespect of her family; I think you definitely confused her and f$%ked up her game plan; I think the affair and leaving says more of I do not love you than "fighting"; The other thing we know is that his wife likes to play the blame game with AT; Most people will take the lazy path with you if you let them.

With this widely-supported opinion of her, why in the world would you want her back?

[Starsky309]

See CV I think you are posting advice to AT on what you want to happen in your life.

There was a time when I wanted that to happen, though not anymore (too much water under the bridge.) I believe perhaps AT's wife did too, at one point, based upon what she said, though there may be too much water under the bridge for her as well. I think I'm just posting from the perspective of a WAS instead of a LBS, which by default, will make my perspective different than most. AT needs to choose what works for him and throw away the rest.

See one thing we do know is that AT was clingy and it did not work.

I disagree. As someone said in an earlier post, it was good for her at one time. Instead, I see the dynamic more like this:
AT: Here's some affection...
AT's W: Thanks, but what I really need is LLx.
AT: Oh, okay, here's some more affection.
AT's wife: You're not hearing me, what I need is LLx.
AT: I hear you. You need LLx. Here's some more affection.
AT's wife: I don't want your freakin' affection!!! I want LLx!!
AT: Sure you do, it's wonderful, have some more.
AT's wife: I HATE your f'in affection! I'm leaving so I can get some LLx!!

There's a lot of talk on here about LL's (love languages.) We all need some of each, but we also each have our priorities. I doubt sincerely that AT's W was opposed to AT's affection, simply that it wasn't her priority LL, and her priority LL wasn't being met. The problem with thinking the OP will eventually just fizzle out is that that person might actually be meeting the WAS spouse's LL needs. They don't have to be perfect, just better. Apparently, W's OM exhibits something that looks more like "fighting for her" than AT's affection does. (Is the OM the ex BF?)

If DB advises doing 180's, in order to address the WAS's complaints, then how is going dark addressing the complaint that AT didn't fight for her? Cleanliness? Sure, clean up more. Working too much? Sure, cut your hours. Dumping the responsibility of the kids too much? Sure, take them to the park or a movie, spend more time with them.

But responding to her complaining that she doesn't like it in c. Fla by offering more affection? Or responding to her complaint that you didn't fight for her by going dark? These actions just don't make sense to me. Maybe I'm falling prey to "believing what she says." I've never been one much for playing games and admit I don't do them well.

I put together a little montage of the comments made about your wife/sitch, in this thread alone:
Do not be second any more; she is disrespectful to you; she will only lie anyway; I wouldn't believe her if she denied it anyway; I will not debase myself and compromise who I am to try and save our M any longer; This is also a woman who, when the going got tough... well she left; Stop being afraid of losing a poor partner; She left you; She blamed you; She is involved in an inappropriate relationship with another man; She does not have the decency to follow through on her actions and file; I won't let myself suffer for things I can't change; Why would I want to be with someone who I have to CONVINCE to be with me?; She would have a few weeks of ML and letting you all touchy freely around her and then she would shut it all down again; I know others will tell you not to leave her there alone, and I agree if you don't trust that she will only take what has been agreed upon; I keep finding out that she means more to me than I do to her; At this point, she doesn't want to be with me... She doesn't want to work things out... She thinks she is happier now than she has ever been (and maybe she's right); Believe I deserve more than this; so I say again, who gives a F about where she stands?; she isn't going to change her behavior because or you or anything that you say or do; She is a roommate who skipped on rent and used you as a storage facility; And yea when she leaves you will be Whisky Tango Foxtrot; with reference to the pictures? Just pack'em up for her and tell her she can have them coz' you no longer need them; Give nothing . . . EXPECT nothing; This line about not fighting for her, don't give it a second thought. I got it too... and it is B.S.; And yes, in MANY ways, what the WAS is doing is crazy... delusional; She was actually her natural self ... HER PROBLEM = COMPLAINT = YOU CHANGE SOLUTION; And MAYBE it wasn't the right technique to bring her back to the M...But it WAS the right technique to get me where I am today; I can't continue pursuing someone who hurts me consistently; emotionally healthy relationships aren't that fragile; she'll know you're there waiting for her to be done with her fun; You see she got used to you failing her s*%t tests; No doubt she has never had someone ignore her or call her out on her s*%t test. This is a lesson you need to learn for the rest of your life for all women do them; One thing you need to think about as well is if you do decide to get back together is if you can live with the disrespect of her family; I think you definitely confused her and f$%ked up her game plan; I think the affair and leaving says more of I do not love you than "fighting"; The other thing we know is that his wife likes to play the blame game with AT; Most people will take the lazy path with you if you let them.

With this widely-supported opinion of her, why in the world would you want her back?

Well, the assumption is that she is a woman of quality when not wayward.

[labug]

AT's wife is now learning that she is not in-charge anymore.

She probably never was.

We don't know what she's learning. We know what AT is trying to teach her but we don't know what she might learn from this. The whole "teaching a lesson" concept reeks of control and one-upmanship. Not usually the best way to build or repair a R.

CV, I agree. If I felt all those things about a person I was in a R with, I certainly would not want them back.

AT, maybe you should take your thread back in the direction you want it to go.

[Arsene]

It's difficult to keep love in the equation when there is so much pain involved. I think it's important to keep that loving element in mind otherwise, we become judgmental and punitive and then what we end up doing here is control or manipulate the other. As Labug says, not a good way to build or repair a R.

You don't have to do or say anything now AT. Just take a step back and gather your thoughts. Where were you last week? Where are you now? Where do you want to be next week (or next month, or next year)?

Are we doing this DBing thing just to get our WASs back so we can get our own way or do we want to become better people in order to have a successful life, which might include a R with our WAS.

We need to put love back in our situations. Only this can help us see our pain through and begin the healing process.