Acceptance - My next challenge.

[Arsene]

First of all, last night, SIL contacted me through FB to tell me about the talk she had had with W last week. In a nut shell she told me that W wasn't serious about her R with OM and that W noticed that I had made many drastic changes to the way I was. SIL said that I should just be patient and keep on doing what I have been doing. She said that W had said that she was with OM mainly for "someone to talk to".

Nonetheless there was something in the way SIL spoke/wrote that left me wondering. Something to the effect that if I eventually fell out of love then I would just have to accept that it wasn't meant to be. In our first convo a few months ago, she had told me to keep the faith and that she was convinced that W would eventually come around.

We left and went for a two hour drive to an amusement park. On the way, we stopped at a gas station for D8 to use the bathroom and W left her phone in the car. Yes, I wasn't as strong as Williams and I actually had a look just long enough to see that while in the car, after about an hour on the road, W had text OM to say "Hi Honey".

My mood went. W came back to the car with D8 and I guess her mood went as well. We drove silently for a while and I tried to focus and be cheerful again. Very difficult but I think I managed. Mind you, I had this overwhelming urge to bring it up. to bring up OM and our R and everything. Basically to have the talk that we never actually had and that I was expecting when I got back from my country a few months back. I felt hurt and I wanted to tell her how I felt. I remembered AT's talk with his wife a few days ago, and how I envied him his opportunity to speak his peace. That is why one should NOT snoop. I didn't say anything and kept it in.

So let me get this straight when you hear and see something you like and validates your thoughts and actions its Ok. As it make's you feel good about your direction.

Then when you see something that you do not like as it does not validates your thoughts and actions its snooping or a poor behaviour on your-side. As it make's you feel upset about your direction.

Actually CB, both of these were just documented as they had an impact on me and I felt they both were huge mistakes on my part. Both events mentioned were negative in my view. SIL didn't seem so adamant that all I had to do was stick with it.
She even offered that maybe I would just have to accept that it wasn't meant to be.

What is the difference here Arsene?

Both where not initiated by yourself. Both just happened.

You could only control your reactions to them.

Yet here you are after that conversation with SIL looking at your wife texting OM while out on the family get away.

So why do you weight one more than the other ?

Why do you think you should put your blinders on and have narrow vision and limit it to what you only want to see?

There are two type of people at the end of a marathon.

You will see both.

As your vision and knowledge is just limited to what you can see.

Those who are struggling and slowing down.

Those who are picking up speed and confidence.

They feed off each other for their desired outcomes.

I appreciate your input mate. I know that what happened today is probably a huge setback for my sitch and the worst backslide ever.

By now, surely you've read ACT TWO

[roughenough]

Wow Arsene- What a whirlwind buddy. Your head must be spinning. I am sure mine will be doing the same because I will be briefly talking with my W in a couple hours.

[chatterbug]

Do not think of it as a setback or as a backslide.

Or do that.

That is your choice.


Like I said.

There are two type of people at the end of a marathon.

You will see both.

As your vision and knowledge is just limited to what you can see.

Those who are struggling and slowing down.

Those who are picking up speed and confidence.

They feed off each other for their desired outcomes.



“Reason lost the battle, and all I could do was surrender and accept I was in love.”
― Paulo Coelho, The Witch Of Portobello



Never pick a battle without knowing the grounds.

Never pick an enemy without knowing their resources and resolve.




"Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning."
Erwin Rommel

[Arsene]

Do not think of it as a setback or as a backslide.

Or do that.

That is your choice.

Actually CB, as I said, I feel relieved. It's like the convo we never had and although it might set me back (or not) the way I see it this very moment is that it doesn't change anything. I suspected she was in love with OM (or at least emotionally involved) anyway. Now I know. And now, she feels comfortable opening up to me (don't know if she will but we'll see). One might look at it as me getting to know my "enemy"'s resources and resolve as well as the ground for the "battle". So today could be seen as a successful recon patrol.

Besides, if it was OM on the phone he might give her bullocking for not answering her phone, just like real couples do. I'll just be the understanding "friend" she turn to in order to complain about him, right?


Like I said.

There are two type of people at the end of a marathon.

You will see both.

As your vision and knowledge is just limited to what you can see.

Those who are struggling and slowing down.

Those who are picking up speed and confidence.

They feed off each other for their desired outcomes.



“Reason lost the battle, and all I could do was surrender and accept I was in love.”
― Paulo Coelho, The Witch Of Portobello

Yeah, mate! You got that right about reason losing the battle.

Never pick a battle without knowing the grounds.

Never pick an enemy without knowing their resources and resolve.




"Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning."
Erwin Rommel

I think a lot was gained (her trust for one) but I'm not sure if the battle was won.

[Arsene]

Wow Arsene- What a whirlwind buddy. Your head must be spinning. I am sure mine will be doing the same because I will be briefly talking with my W in a couple hours.

Yeah mate. It's spinning alright but I'm fine. I feel better than I have in a long time. There is no guessing anymore. I've got the score. She was honest (I believe) on most points. Hell she even admitted to continuing the EA while we were in the other country, after the original EA. She could have lied on this one.

Besides, if she's serious about being friends, (and if I can do that - I think I can) I think we might be able to connect again on many things. Now, I'm just getting ready to be knocked around by the vets' 2X4s.

Good luck with your talk. don't do like me. Keep it short and focused. Cheers mate!

[Arsene]

Addendum to ACT ONE

Here is something else which was said during the poolside discussion.

Me- I just want you to know that if you ever think that you have gone too far to turn around, if you think that you have passed the point of no return, think again. I am still here for you and it's not too late. And although you might think I'll be like your mother was to your father and never let you off the hook for what you've done, I am not your mother and I know I can forgive you without condition because I know I have been instrumental in creating this situation.

W-I know you would never behave like my mother Arsene.


** Just by the way, I didn't sleep much last night and I guess that the level of adrenaline has gone down. I'm no longer on my high. I still don't think this changes my situation but I sure don't feel as strong today as I felt last night. The pain is starting to seep in.

[chatterbug]

I was just trying to say.

Do not beat you-self up over one day and its conversations.

That you can let it bring you down.

Or you can take what you see as the positives and build off it.

[Arsene]

I'm just bringing this over from Rough's thread to keep it in the moment.

I'm posting in purple/blue to try and be clear.

Sorry Rough, I've got this question for Accuray and don't quite know where to post it. Thanks mate!

Hi Accuray,

I found this from you while going through Crazyville's posts.

I can share this for you from my own marriage -- my W has feelings of inadequacy that don't have anything to do with me. I have an achieving personality type, so my quest to improve myself and my situation exacerbates her feelings of inadequacy. Many of the people on this board who run into marriage trouble describe themselves as perfectionists.
[color:#000099]
***** to ME, her feeling inadequate MAY have something to do with her h. Maybe He's critical and judgemental OR at least, she feels he is. So the "achieving personality" would not affect her if he were affirming enough to her,

unless she's so fundamentally insecure that she's not capable of feeling alright about herself no matter who she married. I don't buy that an "achieving personality" in itself makes a woman feel unvalued or unloved. Sorry, but I don't buy it. If it's true, it'd be obvious that she's very insecure. If it's only in the marriage that these feelings surface that tells you something.***


This can create a dynamic where our spouses feel they can never be good enough, that they can never meet [b]our high expectations, and therefore they don't try.[/b] In my W's case, she felt that nothing she did would ever be good enough, and even if she did deliver "what I wanted" there would just be another request behind that one for something different and it would never end.


To ME, that^^ means there are numerous requests and "tasks assigned" and it never ends. Why else would she only expect yet more, once she has done what was asked?


My IC described this as creating a climate where your spouse does not feel "safe". They feel that whatever they do will be scrutinized and judged (even if you don't ever actually do that),

Especially IF YOU DO THAT and come on, this is not happening in a vacuum.

that nothing they do will be as good as how you would have done it, and that their efforts will never lead to acceptance. In response, they retreat, withdraw, and nothing you do will inspire them to try.

Accuray[/color]

I believe this is what my wife has a problem with. She told me she was always afraid to let me down.

That says something then. Take it in and see why she'd feel that way.


Now after yesterday's convo with her, I left her without judging or criticizing. In fact, I told her that I didn't agree with her seeing OM

So you don't think that sounds a tad "critical"? Um, Okay...and did you think SHE NEEDED to know you didn't agree? As if She didn't already know that?

To me, you just reiterated what she KNOWS and has known...why?

but I accepted the fact that she was and that perhaps it's what she had to do for the time being. I'd welcome your comments re: how your post to crazyville can help my sitch. Thanks

On the whole, the conversation was better than it might have been b/c you both cried and hugged and were able to have some resolution feelings later. but have no more of these or it's going to make her uncomfortable. I'm glad she said this is the most honest talk you've had.

I'd leave out ALL the stuff about not agreeing with OM. Who would "agree" with it?

She said she was "in love" with OM. Ouch. Glad you didn't lose it then. Good for you. And She also said she'd be alright without him...okay.

All you had to say was that you believe you two might find each other again someday and that you are glad she helped you change....b/c you have.

ANd leave it at that.

Also SIDENOTE---so you CAN take your d out of the country?

You may seriously want to do that someday soon...like let's say in a year or two.

B/C you cannot stay there forever, with custody solely in her hands. Too unsure and unstable for your d, imo.

[Arsene]

I was just trying to say.

Do not beat you-self up over one day and its conversations.

That you can let it bring you down.

Or you can take what you see as the positives and build off it.

Thanks CB. I see what you say. I think there are a lot of positive points in this and a lot to churn over as well. I'll use it well mate.

[Arsene]

Hi 25. You've been very kind and gentle with me lately. I appreciate this. I expected to be burnt at the stake for my actions and words, but you're right, there was a lot of good in this convo.


My IC described this as creating a climate where your spouse does not feel "safe". They feel that whatever they do will be scrutinized and judged (even if you don't ever actually do that),


Especially IF YOU DO THAT and come on, this is not happening in a vacuum.


Many times during the last few years we were together, W would get upset or angry with me and I didn't know why but guessed that she was mind-reading my standard response (which was to be critical) to her actions. Response which I often didn't have but she would say:"I know what you're thinking".

I believe this is what my wife has a problem with. She told me she was always afraid to let me down.


That says something then. Take it in and see why she'd feel that way.


Yeah, I've been working on this hardest of all. Especially with my D8 because I noticed I was becoming the same with her. I believe I have it mostly under control, but i still monitor my behaviour constantly.


Now after yesterday's convo with her, I left her without judging or criticizing. In fact, I told her that I didn't agree with her seeing OM

So you don't think that sounds a tad "critical"? Um, Okay...and did you think SHE NEEDED to know you didn't agree? As if She didn't already know that?

To me, you just reiterated what she KNOWS and has known...why?

I guess I just felt that based on my behaviour of late, she might have thought I was OK with it all. I suppose that as I don't yet see myself in a position to set boundaries re: OM, I felt something had to be said to state my position on it. You are right though, it probably didn't have to be said.



On the whole, the conversation was better than it might have been b/c you both cried and hugged and were able to have some resolution feelings later. but have no more of these or it's going to make her uncomfortable. I'm glad she said this is the most honest talk you've had.


Yes, I agree. I'm not sure how the whole "friend" thing is going to work out or even if it should/will happen at all though. I know many here will see this as a huge setback and I'll get the "doormat" label but somehow, for now, I see this as a step forward if it happens. It kind of goes with my goals of her opening up to me and learning to trust the person I am becoming.

I will definitely stay away from R talk altogether from now on. I feel like what needed to be said has been said and that we both know where we stand. As long as our stands remain the same, there is no need to bring this up again.


She said she was "in love" with OM. Ouch. Glad you didn't lose it then. Good for you. And She also said she'd be alright without him...okay.


Yes, it was hard to swallow but I did know there had to be an emotional connection between them, no matter what SIL had said. Either SIL was trying to protect me or W wasn't totally honest with SIL.

I guess I was kind of ready for it. What did hurt me more is that she was in touch with OM while we were living abroad last year. I genuinely thought we had been seriously working on our R. I thought I had failed her and that was the reason why she left. It now turns out she probably had never been truly committed to working on it.


All you had to say was that you believe you two might find each other again someday and that you are glad she helped you change....b/c you have.

ANd leave it at that.


Yeah, that sounds good to me but unfortunately, words (the right words) don't always come to me so easily.


Also SIDENOTE---so you CAN take your d out of the country?

You may seriously want to do that someday soon...like let's say in a year or two.

B/C you cannot stay there forever, with custody solely in her hands. Too unsure and unstable for your d, imo.

Yes 25. I have thought of this as well. Perhaps I'll accept that job offer from my previous boss in the country where we were last year. D8 often talks about how much she misses the school and the lifestyle over there. My boss told me that the position would always be open for me. It feels good to be wanted/needed/appreciated by someone. In fact, W even suggested this. I half think that she would feel more comfortable if I wasn't around. It would make it easier for her, as she stated before. She said she trusts me to raise D8 properly. I guess that is positive.

Now, should I just continue with the plan of action or should I consider other options?

IMO, If the lines of communications are finally open, I should take advantage of this and perhaps be a friend to her when she needs one as she stated that she couldn't really talk to anyone about her feelings. I'm in this for the long run so I might as well secure my present position of "friend" and even perhaps become a shoulder to cry on and win this war with love and understanding. I was reading about John Lennon's "lost weekend" when he left Yoko with May Pang, their secretary(with the consent of Yoko) for nearly 1 1/2 year. Yoko thought he should get it out of his system. Is this what W needs?

The interesting thing is that W often commented I might need a May Pang of my own in the lat two years while she was trying to get me to "feel better" after her indiscretions.

Just something which is coming back, she did express her surprise at the fact that I understood her. She never though I would.


Thanks for your comments and kindness 25. I have a feeling that this course of action will not be a popular one around here.