If you've done all you said regarding the short, polite response and retaining some photo memories, then I think going dark for at least a few days is perfectly appropriate. Heck, I feel like "I" need to go dark for few days now. It's a lot to digest, for both you and your W. You've done a lot of positive things toward the goal of reconciling, and without shooting yourself in the foot in the process. Take a break, chill, regroup, plan, give her time, and then proceed as you determine appropriate. You won't "fix" anything in the next 24/48/72 hours anyway, but you could break something.
In the meantime, I like SS's comment about not pursuing but not ignoring either.
But in a case where the WAS walked because the LBS failed the M, then I think some work HAS to be done to win them back, regardless of an OP or not. Especially if the LBS actually wants them back. Otherwise, going dark is just giving the OP free reign at your WAS. The OP doesn't even have to work hard, because the LBS has already done the hard part for them. All they have to be is breathing and they look better than dark (dead.) quote]
I lived this. I used a combination of a soft approach and a harsh approach. But my boundary was always "as long as OM is a part of your life, I will not be." And I did go dark during those times. Eventually, my W would reach out to me. The process repeated a few times until I learned that each time that she began to miss me and reached out to me, I let her back into my life TOO easily. Once i figured that out, and declared that I was DONE is when the tide turned completely.
I can tell you that it does NOT matter what you do when there is an OP involved. You do NOT have a snow ball's chance in hell to R.
You go dark in this situation for multiple reasons IMO, 1) self respect, 2) to protect yourself and your emotional well being, 3) to let the LBS have what they want, space to figure it out for themselves, 4) to let them reap what they sow, whether that is good for them, or bad, and 5) to create absence that is hopefully followed by the LBS missing you and realizing what they are throwing away.
There is also the theory, and I DO agree with it, that one of the surest ways to end an A is to push the cheating spouse closer to her/his A partner, rather than trying to pull them apart. Why would you do this? To let the newness and excitement subside and to reveal that the new R is full of the same issues and problems as any other R.
The reality is that most A's do not last. Those that do, and turn into real relationships, usually end. The statistics that I've read support this.
By fruitlessly trying to tear your spouse away from his/her A partner, IMO, you are only prolonging the A.
Your best bet, IMO, is:
1) to state your feelings ONE time - "I still love you and I want this marriage to work",
2) state your boundary - "I will not be in your life as long as OM is",
3) enforce that boundary,
4) Go dark - Which does not mean ignoring attempts by the WAW to reach out, but does mean being short and to the point when she does,
5) GAL - learn that there is a good life regardless of what happens with your M,
6) Work on yourself - 180's - And let the normal course of life reveal your changes to the WAW.
7) Wait out the A until you can no longer do it,
8) Learn true patience,
9) Learn that this isn't going to get better quickly... it is going to take LOTS of time and perseverance.
10) Let life play out and see where you come out on the other end.
That is pretty much my situation in a nutshell... of course it didn't always go smoothly... but it did work.
AT - buddy, I'm not going to beat around the bush. However, I think that some of what is being said could mislead you. I think that you had a great night last night. Point for the LBS's. But your W's reaction was only a small flicker of the flame that MAY someday turn into a true fire. You've got to stick to YOUR plan. Stay consistent. Let her come to you. Either she does or she doesn't. If she truly loves you still wants this M to work, and finds that she is NOT happier without you, she will think back to what you said last night, and she will come to you. If she finds that her life is happier without you, then she won't.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Do you think your wife -- when you didn't respond to a couple of those texts or emails -- in that moment . . . believed you didn't love her? Or was she simply upset that you weren't behaving in the way that she THOUGHT you would, even while she was cheating on you?
For me? It would have confirmed for me that you didn't love me. If I already had doubts, it would have been the icing on the cake.
This theme of women doing something to try to get a reaction from their men is riddled throughout chick-flicks. The problem being, of course, that it's the women that are watching them, not the men. I can think of a line in "The Break-Up" where Jennifer Anniston says that she didn't really want to break-up with her BF, she just wanted to wake him up, to get him to fight for their R. He didn't. They broke up. He woke up after it was too late. It's not a game, just a huge communication problem between men and women, I think.
AT, I'm going to ask you something, and only you can answer. There is a lot of noise on this post right now with very conflicting positions. And then there's the one that's right for you. You did very well last night in communicating your position and laying down your boundaries. You listened to your W telling you that she felt like you didn't fight for her, and you told her you weren't going to while OM was in the picture. And then you shut down the conversation and went on to other light-hearted conversation. Then you followed through on your "ultimatum" by not responding to W's text at 2:30 in the morning.
Did you, at any point in the conversation last night, ask your W if there was anything you could do now that would evidence to HER that you are willing to fight for her? NOW? In spite of OM? And then offer some ideas, measurable things (moving, different job, trip away, marriage retreat, etc. whatever is relevant to your sitch)? After what she said to you yesterday, I'm wondering what she was hoping for in response to her text at 2:30am? I can pretty well guarantee you she wasn't hoping for silence. I'm sure she thought about your conversation the w-h-o-l-e way home. Maybe she heard you, too.
Maybe it is too late and there is absolutely nothing you could do at this point and going dark is the absolute best thing you could do. But if I were you, I would sure want to know that straight from the horse's mouth, rather than from a bunch of unknown people on a forum, albeit with the advice being offered with the best of intentions.
If by "in spite of OM" you mean for Alk to do this while his wife is still in contact with OM, that is a recipe for disaster.
So lets get this straight. You man is clingy... So you leave and have an affair and you want him to be even more clingy to win you back.
I'm sure there's something between "clingy" and "don't let the door hit you in the @ss on the way out." I'm just saying that I don't often see the sort of reaction described by AT in his convo with his W. It sounded like she was trying to communicate something she needed and wasn't getting, in a situation where it sounds like open communication was always a problem. BIG red flag, from my perspective. If the attitude is going to be all "gloom and doom" and tar-and-feather the WAS as Starsky lays it out in his post, then I don't know why anyone ever bothers to try to save their M.
Where the hell did I ever say THAT???
I'm beginning to think you have some other issue with me, CV. I'm only sharing what WORKED for me, and for other men in these situations. To be frank, I think your wayward thinking, and emphasis on FEELINGS, isn't helpful. But that's up to Alk.
Starsky, I wasn't quoting you, I was quoting chatterbug. My reference to your post was in regards to the one on page 10:
Originally Posted By: Starsky
This is what I think is happening here in her mind: nearly all cheaters use some sort of compartmentalization and rationalization to justify their destructive behavior. For some, it's "Well, you were being an ASS (and they will give you examples of where you were "mean" to them, or even emotionally "abusive") . . . or, they will try to CREATE these moments, thru classic "fight-picking."
When the betrayed spouse behaves with dignity however, like Alkaline has done, there's no "ass" card that his wife can play, so she plays the "Well, you didn't FIGHT for me!!" card.
It's all b.s., and this is how you can know:
HAD you fought for her (in any way other than foot rubs and such) . . . had you exposed her affair for example, or hired a P.I., or confronted her OM at his place of work or something . . . had you done ANY of those things that some of the more aggressive strategies advocate . . . you know what she would have said THEN??
Wait for it . . .
"You're controlling!"
With this sort of attitude about a WAS, I would wonder why any LBS would ever want to reconcile with them? I would think the LBS would figure "good riddance" and consider their leaving a blessing.
I think it's okay to disagree with someone here without having an "issue" with them, isn't it? AT should have the opportunity to consider all of his options. I'm glad your approach worked for you. It doesn't work for everyone, because not every situation is the same. AT will and should make his own decisions and I won't be insulted at all if he throws my advice out. I would hope you wouldn't be insulted simply because I see things differently than you.
Starsky and CV: I value each of you and the advice you give. I definitely feel it is VERY helpful to hear multiple perspectives on this and any sitch...
Honestly, for a little while here, I felt almost paralysed by the differences between what I thought was right and the advice I was getting... I felt I couldn't make a move without screwing up, so I asked the boards for advice on EVERYTHING...
Now, while I'll continue to do that (ask advice) I no longer feel paralysed by the feedback I get. I get that every situation is unique, and there is no one size fits all plan for success... But there are definitely patterns and odds at play here.
Foes that mean I'll follow all the advice I get? Absolutely not... Just this morning, I heard almost unanimously that I shouldn't respond to the text... But after careful consideration, I decided that responding with a simple "glad you're home safe... And you're welcome" was the right thing to do... And you know what? It still feels right to me... It will help me sleep tonight, knowing that I made that decision, and I can't see much harm in it...
But again, I value all the advice and I greatly appreciate different points of view. If someone is going to get pissed that I don't follow their advice, well that's their issue. I honestly don't think anyone that's commented on my sitch would feel that way.
I have a TON to think about over the next few days... And I've decided, beyond the shadow of a doubt that I'll be dark during that period. It makes no sense to me to make ANY decisions in my current mental state.
My current thinking is going dark for the foreseeable future is the correct path for me and for my situation... But that opinion could change... I'm going to take my time, weigh out my options carefully, and consider every opinion I can get... Then I'll make a decision and go with it.
Thanks to so many on this board, and especially Denver, Starsky and Chatterbug, I was able to solidify my thoughts and opinions and stand up for myself and my marriage this weekend. I'm proud of the way I acted, even the parts where I knew I "backslid".
I need to let this weekend set in for a while before deciding next steps.
And I can't wait to read each and every opinion that comes out in the meantime!
