I'm sorry that you are in pain right now AT. I know exactly how you are feeling today. It is no fun and there is nothing that any of us here, or anyone else for that matter, can say to you to make it better.
I just want to let you know that you are not alone. And maybe a quick reminder to not do anything until recent events have a chance to settle and soak in.
Hang in there AT.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
You're focused WAY too much on this. You put her on her heels yesterday. IMO, you are making a mistake if you contact her in any way.
If you pursue in any way, or if your actions are perceived by your W as pursuit in any way... She will continue to run farther away.
Going dark will be hard, but my prediction is that she WILL reach out to at some point. THAT is what you need to have happen to begin to break the momentum.
Denver, you're VERY right about all of this... I KNOW I'm WAY too focused on that aspect right now. I just need to turn it around in my head and on these boards a few times to help move beyond it.
I know that reaching out to her in any way is not a good idea. It will absolutely go against the stance I took yesterday. I'd be breaking my OWN boundaries... Even if she didn't lose respect for me at that point, I'd lose respect for myself, which is far more devastating.
Going back into the dark is absolutely going to be hard... Much harder this time than it was last time... But it's the right thing to do... for me at least.
And maybe now that I KNOW that SHE knows I'm not going dark because I stopped caring... it will be easier for me to be dark... And before anyone has to say it: I realize that going dark isn't for her and I shouldn't care what she's thinking, as I can't change that...
But it will help me sleep at night knowing I'm no longer sending a message that I don't care... Just that I CAN'T care until she shows signs that she's willing to work at us.
I'm sorry that you are in pain right now AT. I know exactly how you are feeling today. It is no fun and there is nothing that any of us here, or anyone else for that matter, can say to you to make it better.
I just want to let you know that you are not alone. And maybe a quick reminder to not do anything until recent events have a chance to settle and soak in.
Hang in there AT.
Thanks Denver. Rest assured, I won't be taking any actions for a while... I need to process a lot before I even know what I want my next step to be.
So lets get this straight. You man is clingy... So you leave and have an affair and you want him to be even more clingy to win you back.
I'm sure there's something between "clingy" and "don't let the door hit you in the @ss on the way out." I'm just saying that I don't often see the sort of reaction described by AT in his convo with his W. It sounded like she was trying to communicate something she needed and wasn't getting, in a situation where it sounds like open communication was always a problem. BIG red flag, from my perspective. If the attitude is going to be all "gloom and doom" and tar-and-feather the WAS as Starsky lays it out in his post, then I don't know why anyone ever bothers to try to save their M.
Originally Posted By: AT
I still feel it deserves a "Glad you're home safe... And you're welcome" response.
I agree. There are DB rules that say you shouldn't. Those rules don't work for everyone in every situation. I think YOU have to do what YOU feel is right, something that you can look back on without regret. In 6 months, if your M fails, would you look back and regret politely responding? If you ignore some of the convo last night and stick to the "rules" today, does that give you solace? Will a polite response really make or break your sitch? Will 50 polite responses? Responding is not chasing, in my book anyway.
At this point in the S, everything is measured under a microscope. That microscope is formed by our own perspective and our own feelings about the situation. Whereas a response or lack thereof in another sitch would have been irrelevant either way, the current sitch places a whole different spin on it. What is SHE wanting and why? If you read ScaredSilly's thread, you can see how she is measuring every response her H makes (she was the LBS, is now sort of the WAS, her H is trying to reconcile.) Does he respond timely? Does his response show real investment in thought and effort? Is he taking this long because she's not a priority? Etc., etc. SS is measuring because she actually would like for the M to R. Sometimes his actions are very well received by her. If she didn't want to reconcile and her mission was to end it, everything would be interpreted negatively regardless (I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, SS.)
Taking the pictures was a good thing, I think. Did you ask to keep any? Did you want any? This is what I would be noticing as I was packing up my things and moving out from my H. I would think, "He claims to care, but does he? He's letting me take every picture and our wedding video. He seems so focused on OM, but completely indifferent to what we once had, letting go of every reminder of us. Does he care? Or is this just a control thing, a pride thing, something to salvage his ego?"
Now you're going to go completely dark, with nothing to remind you of her, and expect her to dump OM and trust you unconditionally, even though she trusted you before and you let her down. Meanwhile, OM will be doing everything wonderful, meeting her needs, building a future with her, etc., .....while you sit back and remain dark and wait for her to "come to her senses."
Yeah, as a WAW, this part of the formula has always been tough for me to digest.
CV does have a point. Dark didn't work for my H IN THE BEGINNING. He thought I didn't care. Now that the tables are turned, so to speak, I let him initiate but I never ignore.
The problem I have with AT's sitch, though, is the OM. If there were an OW in my sitch with H, I would have to stay dark. Hell, I'd be worse than dark. I admire anyone who can even think about R knowing there's OP. I'd move on.
And, coincidently, once I started moving on, H wanted me back.
M:63 H:53 S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23 M:15 T:16
Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways." H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12 12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing
I don't want to sound like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, but I wouldn't do well in a sitch with an OP either. I remember once when I was dating a guy, and his old GF came up and tried to coax him away from me. And he was listening. I just walked off. I knew I would never fight for a guy that wanted someone else. At least if I knew I had given my best to the R. What would be the point?
But in a case where the WAS walked because the LBS failed the M, then I think some work HAS to be done to win them back, regardless of an OP or not. Especially if the LBS actually wants them back. Otherwise, going dark is just giving the OP free reign at your WAS. The OP doesn't even have to work hard, because the LBS has already done the hard part for them. All they have to be is breathing and they look better than dark (dead.)
Those last few posts are amazing. It is such a balancing act when there is OP involved. You don't want to look weak, but if you go at it too strong, you will end up in the same spot as being weak. And that is without your spouse moving in your direction.
Me 37/W 32 S 5 D 4 ILYBNILWY 5/12 Sep 8/12 Starting to find myself 11/12 on
CV does have a point. Dark didn't work for my H IN THE BEGINNING.
Going dark may not have been the reason that the table have turned, but it was part of the process. And the table DID turn.
There is a time to be dark, a time to let your WAW do all of the initiating of contact, and even a time to do a little pursuing... It is all part of the process.
Originally Posted By: scaredsilly
The problem I have with AT's sitch, though, is the OM. If there were an OW in my sitch with H, I would have to stay dark. Hell, I'd be worse than dark. I admire anyone who can even think about R knowing there's OP. I'd move on.
And, coincidently, once I started moving on, H wanted me back.
As Starsky would say BINGO!
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I'm sure there's something between "clingy" and "don't let the door hit you in the @ss on the way out." I'm just saying that I don't often see the sort of reaction described by AT in his convo with his W. It sounded like she was trying to communicate something she needed and wasn't getting, in a situation where it sounds like open communication was always a problem. BIG red flag, from my perspective. If the attitude is going to be all "gloom and doom" and tar-and-feather the WAS as Starsky lays it out in his post, then I don't know why anyone ever bothers to try to save their M.
Thanks for chiming in CV. I definitely understand what you're saying, and it's something I'm carefully considering. Either way, I'm "Going Dark" for at LEAST a few days to make sure I fully digest what happened yesterday.
I truly think that if I put on the "full-court press", started pursuing her and actively trying to make things work, then there would be a decent chance that I could.
What I have to figure out is do I want that? Do I want to have to convince my W that I'm a better option than the one she's with now?
I'm pretty sure the answer to that question will always be "No".
But that doesn't mean I don't want to be with W. As I've said before, I just need to see that she's willing to put some fight in too.
I get to see my IC this Wednesday, and will certainly be bringing up the "Going Dark" thing with him. And up to this point, his advice has been pretty spot on for me. Often, it reflects the opinions on the board, sometimes it goes against them completely.
I very much appreciate all the advice I get... from friends, from IC, and from this board. I'm learning to take ALL that advice into consideration, and then form my action plan based on my knowledge of the situation.
I KNOW my W wants to SEE me fight for her. She wants to KNOW, without a shadow of a doubt, that I have changed in that respect. That going forward, I'll ALWAYS have her back, I'll ALWAYS stick up for her and be there whenever and however she needs me. Her biggest complaint in our M seems to be the lack of "fight" I always had in me... I'm very passive about most things, letting situations "sort themselves out"... often being indecisive about things.
She felt that I never had her back, that I never truly fought for her.
That's where this situation gets super sticky. Because one of the 180s that I need to continue to work on flies directly in the face of DBing... Showing fight in this relationship.
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
I agree. There are DB rules that say you shouldn't. Those rules don't work for everyone in every situation. I think YOU have to do what YOU feel is right, something that you can look back on without regret. In 6 months, if your M fails, would you look back and regret politely responding? If you ignore some of the convo last night and stick to the "rules" today, does that give you solace? Will a polite response really make or break your sitch? Will 50 polite responses? Responding is not chasing, in my book anyway.[\quote]
I completely agree with you on this. And I know that I may draw the ire of the commenters here, but I did respond to her at around 11:00 with that exact text "Glad you made it home safely. And you're welcome". I tossed it around in my head for a few hours, listened to the advice of going completely dark, and decided to respond anyway. I'm sure that there would be more damage done to ME personally and the R by not responding to that text... one which I asked that she send me.
[quote=Crazyville]At this point in the S, everything is measured under a microscope. That microscope is formed by our own perspective and our own feelings about the situation. Whereas a response or lack thereof in another sitch would have been irrelevant either way, the current sitch places a whole different spin on it. What is SHE wanting and why? If you read ScaredSilly's thread, you can see how she is measuring every response her H makes (she was the LBS, is now sort of the WAS, her H is trying to reconcile.) Does he respond timely? Does his response show real investment in thought and effort? Is he taking this long because she's not a priority? Etc., etc. SS is measuring because she actually would like for the M to R. Sometimes his actions are very well received by her. If she didn't want to reconcile and her mission was to end it, everything would be interpreted negatively regardless (I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, SS.)
I'll be catching up on SS's sitch very soon! And I also agree with everything here being under a microscope... on both sides. Hell, I know how much I analyze every little thing, and at this point, despite her claiming that she is "Numb" to us, I think she's in the same boat.
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
Taking the pictures was a good thing, I think. Did you ask to keep any? Did you want any? This is what I would be noticing as I was packing up my things and moving out from my H. I would think, "He claims to care, but does he? He's letting me take every picture and our wedding video. He seems so focused on OM, but completely indifferent to what we once had, letting go of every reminder of us. Does he care? Or is this just a control thing, a pride thing, something to salvage his ego?"[\quote]
I didn't ask for her to leave any of the pictures behind for a couple reasons. First, I was very glad that she actually wanted them... I didn't think she would. Second, I have digital copies of just about every picture she took and can easily print them back out if I wanted to... She knows this as well.
As for the wedding video, as she was taking it, she made sure that I had another copy. I told her that not only did I have a copy on my computer, but I also had the originals up in the master bedroom.
She did leave behind a few of our engagement pictures that I had framed for valentine's day last year and my favorite HUGE screen-print of a beautiful moment of our wedding day.
[quote=Crazyville]Now you're going to go completely dark, with nothing to remind you of her, and expect her to dump OM and trust you unconditionally, even though she trusted you before and you let her down. Meanwhile, OM will be doing everything wonderful, meeting her needs, building a future with her, etc., .....while you sit back and remain dark and wait for her to "come to her senses."
Yeah, as a WAW, this part of the formula has always been tough for me to digest.
It's awfully tough for me to digest too... As I said before, I'm definitely going dark for AT LEAST a few days... until I can digest this and spin it around with my IC.
I KNOW I want to email her to reiterate some of my thoughts and feelings. Something she can always go back and read as the memories of yesterday get fuzzy.
Is that a good idea? Certainly not right now! Again, I need time here to figure out my next steps... and I appreciate every word of advice I get along the way!
Going dark may not have been the reason that the table have turned, but it was part of the process. And the table DID turn.
There is a time to be dark, a time to let your WAW do all of the initiating of contact, and even a time to do a little pursuing... It is all part of the process.
Lots of good stuff in the process. A lot of reasons for it. It has worked well for many people in may situations. But if it were 100% appropriate for 100% of the situations, then this site would be full of 100% success stories.
It's a tool, that's all. It's not perfect for every job. Applying it blindly without consideration for the uniqueness of a situation is suicide.
