Acceptance - My next challenge.

[unbidden]

Yes, you're response sort of made sense, just mixed two different eras. It was cute.

[Denver_2010]

David Carradine was called "grasshopper" by his master in the 70's TV series Kung Fu. David was the most gentle laid back guy... until forced to defend himself. That's when the fun started!

^^^

[Arsene]

Good night everyone,

Just a short entry to voice some thoughts that have been coming to mind about the fact that this evening, W said she wouldn't mind going for a family outing tomorrow. I agreed and it looks like I'll have another chance to show her the new man I'm becoming.

It still feels weird, though. I guess we don't really talk or see each other all week, even if she does come around to visit D8, but then she offers this kind of day. I'm doing it because it is very good (IMO) for D8 but I feel like she might be cake eating. I guess I still think that OM is probably going to his family on Sunday so what else is W suppose to do? I know I'm just mind-reading and that is why I'm saying this here and not to her.

It could just be that my plan of action is actually working and that she is warming up to me. Nonetheless, I can't help but thinking that she is simply glad I seem to be ok and that we can now move on as "friends". I wish I knew what is on her mind. Has my new behaviour affected the way she sees "us"? Has she even had thoughts about the possibility of us ever reconciling?

Patience, I know. But patience would be much easier if she gave me a sign, or if she dumped OM.

[bustingout]

Nonetheless, I can't help but thinking that she is simply glad I seem to be ok and that we can now move on as "friends". I wish I knew what is on her mind. Has my new behaviour affected the way she sees "us"? Has she even had thoughts about the possibility of us ever reconciling?

Arsene you have expressed so well what I have been feeling but unable to articulate as clearly. I know these are only thoughts we can express here, and that time will have the answers we seek.

I follow your sitch even though i don't post a lot. I hope you are well and that you have a wonderful family day tomorrow. Will be so good for D8 :-)

[ForeverYoung]

It could just be that my plan of action is actually working and that she is warming up to me. Nonetheless, I can't help but thinking that she is simply glad I seem to be ok and that we can now move on as "friends". I wish I knew what is on her mind. Has my new behaviour affected the way she sees "us"? Has she even had thoughts about the possibility of us ever reconciling?

Patience, I know. But patience would be much easier if she gave me a sign, or if she dumped OM.

Yes, it's the not knowing that leaves us feeling in limbo, wondering if we are on the right track, doing the right things. But let's say you did know the answer to your question above. Would it change the course of action you have choosen? Maybe we should choose a course that is not dependent at all on the outcome. One that works for us no matter what happens.

I'm beginnig to not care which way my situation ends up, I just want to make sure that I have no regrets in the end.

[Denver_2010]

if she dumped OM.

If and when that happens, you have a chance.

[Arsene]

Thanks for your thoughts Busting.

I will definitely make sure we all have a great time tomorrow, but especially that my W can walk away from it rested and relaxed, and perhaps a bit more confused about her choices.

Yes, it's the not knowing that leaves us feeling in limbo, wondering if we are on the right track, doing the right things. But let's say you did know the answer to your question above. Would it change the course of action you have choosen? Maybe we should choose a course that is not dependent at all on the outcome. One that works for us no matter what happens.

I'm beginnig to not care which way my situation ends up, I just want to make sure that I have no regrets in the end.

Yes FY. I am convinced that what I am doing is for the best and I am happy to be doing it (for myself) so the course of action is not really dependent on the outcome, but i sometimes feel like my sanity is dependent on visible, measurable progress.

if she dumped OM.

If and when that happens, you have a chance.

And I know I'm still at the beginning. I really want to believe, heck no, I believe that we are going to be fine. Most of the time I have an unwavering faith in it.

I suppose it's like one's belief in God. We do believe without a doubt, until we go through tough times and then we ask for a sign. We want proof to help us sustain our "unwavering" faith.

It's not about wondering whether I'm doing the right thing by doing this. I'm convinced of that. I know that I'll never regret what I'm doing now. Right now, I'm just looking for reassurance that my faith in her is justified.

[Arsene]

Hello everyone,

I'm not sure where to start. Today was probably the most significant day since I got back from my country in mid-July, mainly because I ended up breaking point 1, 3, 5, 6, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 19, 20, 24, 26, 31, 32 and 37 of the list of 37 do's and don't's.

I don't know how to say all that happened over the last 12 hours without writing a book but I will try to only mention the important stuff.

First of all, last night, SIL contacted me through FB to tell me about the talk she had had with W last week. In a nut shell she told me that W wasn't serious about her R with OM and that W noticed that I had made many drastic changes to the way I was. SIL said that I should just be patient and keep on doing what I have been doing. She said that W had said that she was with OM mainly for "someone to talk to".

Nonetheless there was something in the way SIL spoke/wrote that left me wondering. Something to the effect that if I eventually fell out of love then I would just have to accept that it wasn't meant to be. In our first convo a few months ago, she had told me to keep the faith and that she was convinced that W would eventually come around.

Today was our family day. D8 and I had decided to make pancakes for W so when she got here, she was pleasantly surprised to see D8 flipping pancakes by herself. We had a nice breakfast but I noticed that W didn't seem as cheerful as she had on our previous family day. I chose to ignore it. While at the house before leaving, W took quite a few texts and this annoyed me a bit but I chased the feeling away as soon as it came and kept on being positive and cheerful.

We left and went for a two hour drive to an amusement park. On the way, we stopped at a gas station for D8 to use the bathroom and W left her phone in the car. Yes, I wasn't as strong as Williams and I actually had a look just long enough to see that while in the car, after about an hour on the road, W had text OM to say "Hi Honey".

My mood went. W came back to the car with D8 and I guess her mood went as well. We drove silently for a while and I tried to focus and be cheerful again. Very difficult but I think I managed. Mind you, I had this overwhelming urge to bring it up. to bring up OM and our R and everything. Basically to have the talk that we never actually had and that I was expecting when I got back from my country a few months back. I felt hurt and I wanted to tell her how I felt. I remembered AT's talk with his wife a few days ago, and how I envied him his opportunity to speak his peace. That is why one should NOT snoop. I didn't say anything and kept it in.

We finally got there and after about an hour at the park both W and I were disappointed with the attractions. The park wasn't very good and definitely not worth the drive and money I spent (quite a bit considering my dire financial situation). Nonetheless, D8 did enjoyed it and at one point she went to the pool while W and I sat and talked.

W was talking about how she'd always lacked confidence in life and how she felt that this had affected her decisions. She went on to say that everyone in her life had judged her and no one had trusted her judgement on things, especially when she decided to become a singer. Her parents didn't think she was beautiful enough to make it in that field. I validated and asked encouraging questions. She admitted that she had never seen herself as beautiful so I just went straight in it when I should have just STFU. I told her that I had always thought she was beautiful and still did. That I had always had full respect for her and what she was doing and that I believed in her. She said that of course I would say that, but it's because I liked her. To this I replied that I still felt that way now even though I don't always find her very likeable.

This escalated, I'm not sure how, to her telling me that I should move on and get on with my life. I told her I was moving on and that I wasn't waiting for her, just that I was still there for her, for the moment.

Here are some of the exchanges that occurred through the convo that followed in no particular order that I can remember:

W- I regret how I handled things, I wish I had talked to you back then. We just didn't know how to communicate then.

Me-It doesn't have to be too late. Things could still be fixed.

W- I'm happy now. Don't you want me to be happy?

Me- Yes, of course I do. Don't you think that we still have a shot at happiness working together as a team on this R?

W-You should move on, get a GF.

Me- I don't need a GF. I'm fine the way I am, doing what I am doing now. I believe that we can still work things out and I have never lost faith in you. I still love you and I am being who i want to be right now, a man with integrity, and determination, willing to walk through the gates of hell to save his marriage and family and fight for the woman he loves. That is the man you married, isn't it?

W- (laugh) Yes it is. But you have to move on, forget about me. You are not helping me. You are making this so difficult. We just can't go back. This is not all bad. We've both learned so much.

Me- I don't want to go back to the old R. I would want to work on a new R that could be better than anything we have ever hoped for using what we learned. I'm not trying to make things difficult for you I'm just telling you how I feel and what I'm doing.

Me- (light) I'm sorry. I still talk too much, don't I?

W- (smile)Not as much as you used to. Big improvement.

Me- (smile) maybe we should quit now while we can still smile about it.

W- (smile) yeah.


END OF ACT ONE

** I might have forgotten some things and I will post them later if i remember.

[chatterbug]

First of all, last night, SIL contacted me through FB to tell me about the talk she had had with W last week. In a nut shell she told me that W wasn't serious about her R with OM and that W noticed that I had made many drastic changes to the way I was. SIL said that I should just be patient and keep on doing what I have been doing. She said that W had said that she was with OM mainly for "someone to talk to".

Nonetheless there was something in the way SIL spoke/wrote that left me wondering. Something to the effect that if I eventually fell out of love then I would just have to accept that it wasn't meant to be. In our first convo a few months ago, she had told me to keep the faith and that she was convinced that W would eventually come around.

We left and went for a two hour drive to an amusement park. On the way, we stopped at a gas station for D8 to use the bathroom and W left her phone in the car. Yes, I wasn't as strong as Williams and I actually had a look just long enough to see that while in the car, after about an hour on the road, W had text OM to say "Hi Honey".

My mood went. W came back to the car with D8 and I guess her mood went as well. We drove silently for a while and I tried to focus and be cheerful again. Very difficult but I think I managed. Mind you, I had this overwhelming urge to bring it up. to bring up OM and our R and everything. Basically to have the talk that we never actually had and that I was expecting when I got back from my country a few months back. I felt hurt and I wanted to tell her how I felt. I remembered AT's talk with his wife a few days ago, and how I envied him his opportunity to speak his peace. That is why one should NOT snoop. I didn't say anything and kept it in.

So let me get this straight when you hear and see something you like and validates your thoughts and actions its Ok. As it make's you feel good about your direction.

Then when you see something that you do not like as it does not validates your thoughts and actions its snooping or a poor behaviour on your-side. As it make's you feel upset about your direction.


What is the difference here Arsene?

Both where not initiated by yourself. Both just happened.

You could only control your reactions to them.

Yet here you are after that conversation with SIL looking at your wife texting OM while out on the family get away.

So why do you weight one more than the other ?

Why do you think you should put your blinders on and have narrow vision and limit it to what you only want to see?

There are two type of people at the end of a marathon.

You will see both.

As your vision and knowledge is just limited to what you can see.

Those who are struggling and slowing down.

Those who are picking up speed and confidence.

They feed off each other for their desired outcomes.

[Arsene]

ACT TWO

Well. This convo was now behind us and we had a relatively easy time to get back in a better mood. I think the convo helped lighten the mood for a while and W actually offered to make us her Fish and Chips (something she used to do on Sundays in the past).

On the way home, though, my mood swung around. I got thinking about OM and the text she had sent. I ended up wondering why I bothered with her and I got myself all worked up again, but promising to STFU this time. I had done enough damage already. The thing is, I didn't feel good about the way it had gone. I felt that I hadn't listened to her (she had admitted that she still doesn't talk much about her feelings)and that I hadn't really had a breakthrough. I wanted more but I kept telling myself to STFU.

On the way home, in an attempt to avoid breaking the law and making an illegal right turn, I turned into a driveway past the intersection and got around to take my street. I got pulled over by a policeman who was standing there. He told me that my "U" turn was illegal and I'd have to go to the station to pay a fine (standard scare tactics to try and prompt a bribe). I was frustrated and tried to talk to the officer but to no avail. W said to simply pay him a bribe, which I was ready and willing to do so I got out and paid the man to get my papers back and drove away. For some reasons, the frustration and anger I withheld within me and perhaps even this unnecessary expense which put a bit of a dent in my budget, brought tears to my eyes (I have had difficulties holding back my emotions lately). W and D8 noticed. W put her hand on my shoulder and voiced words of support. She said I'd done well, that I should just let it go. I said I was fine.

We got home and started cooking together but W again kept answering texts on her phone. Again I was annoyed, mainly thinking that perhaps OM could leave her alone for just one day while she was with her family (not even knowing for sure that it was OM but with a strong suspicion as W hid the phone while answering).

I tried to remain cheerful and we ate and then D8 went to bed. W came out of the room and by that time, i was sure I wanted to talk to her. I asked her if she'd play a game of pool before leaving and she agreed.

Needless to say that we didn't even get close to the pool table. This convo is a big blur in my mind right now. I'm not sure I can recall it verbatum but I have to admit that everything was said. We got rid of the white elephant in the room. I listened like hell and validated even though I also talked quite a bit (it lasted 3 hours).

Here are some highlights in no particular order (perhaps I'll be able to recall specific parts of the convo later and will share them at that time).

1.W is in love with OM.
2.She has not thought about what a future with him would be.
3.If he left her she says she would be fine with it.
4.He would be fine if she left him.
5.He wouldn't try to make her stay with him, like I'm doing.
6.She was occasionally in touch with him while we were living in the other country last year.
7.She initiated contact with him after dumping me.
8.She dumped me so she could take control of her life.
9.She still cares deeply for me.
10.She regrets hurting me so much.
11.She wants me to move on.
12.She's OK with me leaving the country with D8.
13.She once thought I was trying to stop her from seeing D8 but realizes now that she was wrong (previously documented).
14.She initially went to OM because she was afraid to talk to me.
15.She was confused over the last two years while still in the family and once I left for my country felt it was the only opportunity to leave me.
16. She realizes that she will never find anyone who loves her the way I do.
17.She feels I'm trying to force her to stay with her
18. I explain that I don't really care about the outcome anymore, that I accept what she is doing even if I can't agree with it and that I am doing what I want to do by standing for my marriage, the same way she is doing what she wants to do by walking out on it. I am not trying to convince her or force her to do anything she doesn't want.
19.I say that I am not ready to return to a relationship with her or anyone right now as I am not done with my work on myself.
20. She says she disagree with what I'm doing.
21. I say I disagree with what she is doing.
22. We agree to disagree.
23. She says she's always been my friend and still is.
24. I said that until now, we couldn't as there was that elephant in the room, but that with this new found honesty, there was a chance we might.
25. She says she still considers me her family.
26. I told her I didn't intend to bring up OM again.
27. She agreed that it would make things very awkward.
28. She said she had never felt this comfortable talking to me.
29. She said that she had probably never opened up so much to anyone.
30. She said she doesn't talk about this to any of her friends anymore. that they just didn't understand. Not one of them.
31. I threw in , while talking about myself, that if one person tells you something they might be wrong but that if everybody tells you, you should stop and listen.
30. We agreed to be friends.
31. She told me that I can talk to her about anything.
32. I reciprocated.
33. She said she was happy we had spent the last ten years together.
34. She said maybe it was time to move on.
35. I agreed and I said that moving on might also bring us back together.
36. She agreed, saying maybe.
37. She said she likes her life right now.
38. She said OM doesn't have contact with his W and kids anymore.
39. She doesn't seem to see that as a flaw in him.
40. We talk about how difficult it is to make friends around here.
41. She said that there is no one around here with whom to talk the way we just did (including OM?)



We hugged warmly. She cried. We talked about how awkward things have been between us. She said she hopes we can really do this. She looked a bit confused, and unsure of herself but covered it and became cheerful again. We laughed and smiled and touched and sat on the floor side by side. Talked about some good moments in our lives.

During the convo (3 hours) her phone, which had been left in the kitchen, rang at least a dozen times and beeped (texts) twice as often. She didn't answer it or even made a move to check her messages while she was still in the house and in my sight on her way to the car. I guess OM was worried. Looks like he's got her on a short leash.

I feel strangely relieved after this talk. I know that for me to have agreed to be her friend while she is openly emotionally involved with OM is not everyone's cup of tea and perhaps it is the wrong thing to do right now but the fact that for the first time in our lives we have had this kind of personal, "honest" open discussion is a major breakthrough to me and to her alike. I think enough to confuse her as she said that she never thought she could have such a talk with me.

Sorry for the format but this is the only way I can put in most of what was said. I know that out of context, it might be hard to look at these statements but ask away if you have any questions. I might remember things more as time passes.

2 X 4s (and I know I will get tons of them) are more than welcome and appreciated.

BTW, I do feel totally detached from the outcome. I really think that this might be the acceptance I was seeking.