AT! You did very well. I'm very proud of you and I think you are in a very good place now. I won't repeat what's been said by the vets but I agree with it. It's great advice. I think you definitely confused her and f$%ked up her game plan. Now you'll be the one getting a good night's sleep while she lays in bad all night wondering what to do.
Cheers mate!!!
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Do you think your wife -- when you didn't respond to a couple of those texts or emails -- in that moment . . . believed you didn't love her? Or was she simply upset that you weren't behaving in the way that she THOUGHT you would, even while she was cheating on you?
For me? It would have confirmed for me that you didn't love me. If I already had doubts, it would have been the icing on the cake.
This theme of women doing something to try to get a reaction from their men is riddled throughout chick-flicks. The problem being, of course, that it's the women that are watching them, not the men. I can think of a line in "The Break-Up" where Jennifer Anniston says that she didn't really want to break-up with her BF, she just wanted to wake him up, to get him to fight for their R. He didn't. They broke up. He woke up after it was too late. It's not a game, just a huge communication problem between men and women, I think.
AT, I'm going to ask you something, and only you can answer. There is a lot of noise on this post right now with very conflicting positions. And then there's the one that's right for you. You did very well last night in communicating your position and laying down your boundaries. You listened to your W telling you that she felt like you didn't fight for her, and you told her you weren't going to while OM was in the picture. And then you shut down the conversation and went on to other light-hearted conversation. Then you followed through on your "ultimatum" by not responding to W's text at 2:30 in the morning.
Did you, at any point in the conversation last night, ask your W if there was anything you could do now that would evidence to HER that you are willing to fight for her? NOW? In spite of OM? And then offer some ideas, measurable things (moving, different job, trip away, marriage retreat, etc. whatever is relevant to your sitch)? After what she said to you yesterday, I'm wondering what she was hoping for in response to her text at 2:30am? I can pretty well guarantee you she wasn't hoping for silence. I'm sure she thought about your conversation the w-h-o-l-e way home. Maybe she heard you, too.
Maybe it is too late and there is absolutely nothing you could do at this point and going dark is the absolute best thing you could do. But if I were you, I would sure want to know that straight from the horse's mouth, rather than from a bunch of unknown people on a forum, albeit with the advice being offered with the best of intentions.
For me? It would have confirmed for me that you didn't love me. If I already had doubts, it would have been the icing on the cake.
These were her words almost exactly CV. This is the exact reason that my stance yesterday threw her completely off balance. She as expecting me to simply agree to the D and move on. She told me all of this as well.
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
This theme of women doing something to try to get a reaction from their men is riddled throughout chick-flicks. The problem being, of course, that it's the women that are watching them, not the men. I can think of a line in "The Break-Up" where Jennifer Anniston says that she didn't really want to break-up with her BF, she just wanted to wake him up, to get him to fight for their R. He didn't. They broke up. He woke up after it was too late. It's not a game, just a huge communication problem between men and women, I think.
Yup, and thanks for spoiling that movie... LOL Just kidding!
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
AT, I'm going to ask you something, and only you can answer. There is a lot of noise on this post right now with very conflicting positions. And then there's the one that's right for you. You did very well last night in communicating your position and laying down your boundaries. You listened to your W telling you that she felt like you didn't fight for her, and you told her you weren't going to while OM was in the picture. And then you shut down the conversation and went on to other light-hearted conversation. Then you followed through on your "ultimatum" by not responding to W's text at 2:30 in the morning.
Did you, at any point in the conversation last night, ask your W if there was anything you could do now that would evidence to HER that you are willing to fight for her? NOW? In spite of OM? And then offer some ideas, measurable things (moving, different job, trip away, marriage retreat, etc. whatever is relevant to your sitch)? After what she said to you yesterday, I'm wondering what she was hoping for in response to her text at 2:30am? I can pretty well guarantee you she wasn't hoping for silence. I'm sure she thought about your conversation the w-h-o-l-e way home. Maybe she heard you, too.
CV, I'm glad you asked this, and yes. Absolutely. During our conversations yesterday I did ask her what it was that she wanted from me, what I could actually do to prove the fight isn't just in words. I gave some concrete examples of things that I would be willing to do IF she decided to end it with OM permanently... but I also had to make it clear that I wasn't willing to do any more for our R in it's current state.
Her response to these lines of communication were mostly confusion.
I really threw her for a loop showing that I still wanted to be in this M.
And she needs time to digest that.
She said she's been "Numb" to me and to us for a while now... and despite her bad night now and again... she can't bring herself to think about a future for us due to this numbness.
Numb... It's an awful lot like she's just bottling up these emotions IMO... Something she knows she has an issue with...
Numb didn't crush me like I thought it might. It actually gave me a little more hope. Because numb can't last forever.
But it definitely gave me pause about not responding to her texts or emails... knowing that the message a lack of response sends to her is that I don't care. I never explained the lack of a response, and she didn't ask for an explanation of that.
But I definitely made it clear that while I don't want her reaching out while OM is in the picture, WHEN she reaches out again, she won't be met with darkness. The fight will become more obvious to her, once I see that she's taking steps to work on our M.
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
Maybe it is too late and there is absolutely nothing you could do at this point and going dark is the absolute best thing you could do. But if I were you, I would sure want to know that straight from the horse's mouth, rather than from a bunch of unknown people on a forum, albeit with the advice being offered with the best of intentions.
I certainly hope its not too late, and I absolutely don't get that feeling after yesterday. I think there's more than a few things she'll be turning around in her head over the next day or two. And now the ball is in her court to make the next move.
I made it crystal clear that I love her, that I want our M to work, and that I'm willing to knock down mountains to work on a new relationship with her.
And she knows the conditions to my mountain-crushing.
They are not tough conditions to follow. They are simple matters of respect. For me, for her and for our marriage.
She has decisions to make, ones that I'm sure aren't easy for her. And I'll be here, working on me and hoping to hear from her again some day.
Maybe I won't. But at least now I know I tried just about everything and was able to make it crystal clear to her that I AM fighting for me and for us.
I think the affair and leaving says more of I do not love you than "fighting"
Chatter, these words, or ones very similar to them, came out of my mouth a few times yesterday.
After she told me how much it upset her that I didn't respond to that particular email, how that was the "final straw" in her becoming numb to us, the last sign she needed that I was done...
Well after she told me that, I told her that I though SHE was done the day she packed her sh!t and moved a few hundred miles away... And I was SURE she was done when I found out about OM
I'm still sure that she's done. At least for now.
I'm also sure she could change her mind one day.
And now that I've laid out my personal boundaries, I'm sure that when that day comes, there will be something worth working on.
So lets get this straight. You man is clingy... So you leave and have an affair and you want him to be even more clingy to win you back.
Un-huh
Take some time to read how many men here who were good and decent to their wife won them back being even more clingy.
Go find one.
I think the affair and leaving says more of I do not love you than "fighting"
Right. I had to balance a tough approach with also trying to show my W that I was capable of being a better person than I had been during our R/M. I was always great at it, but I think that I did an okay job. I certainly never went to her while she was in contact with OM and asked her what I could do to win her back. While it may have been murky at times, the boundary was always clear with my W... (My W)+(OM)=(NO DENVER). I don't see how she would have respected me otherwise.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
After she told me how much it upset her that I didn't respond to that particular email, how that was the "final straw" in her becoming numb to us, the last sign she needed that I was done...
Well after she told me that, I told her that I though SHE was done the day she packed her sh!t and moved a few hundred miles away... And I was SURE she was done when I found out about OM
I'm still sure that she's done. At least for now.
I'm also sure she could change her mind one day.
You're focused WAY too much on this. You put her on her heels yesterday. IMO, you are making a mistake if you contact her in any way.
If you pursue in any way, or if your actions are perceived by your W as pursuit in any way... She will continue to run farther away.
Going dark will be hard, but my prediction is that she WILL reach out to at some point. THAT is what you need to have happen to begin to break the momentum.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Hey Everyone... I want to thank each one of you for your kind words today, and over the past week. They've been very helpful and I really appreciate each of you for reading and chiming in.
Now, I DEFINITELY need to do some journaling.
Despite the sense of accomplishment that I feel due to my words and actions yesterday, the longer I'm awake today, the deeper I'm spiraling into a pretty nasty depression.
This is most certainly nothing new, and nothing unexpected... I mean hell, I get sad the day after we TALK ON THE PHONE or just exchange emails. Actually seeing her, holding her in my arms for a few seconds, laughing with her, listening and talking while being able to look her in the eyes... It's really bringing me down that I won't be doing any of that again for quite some time.
While I know I gave her plenty to think about, she's also given me a whole lot to turn over in my head... A few of the things she said to me are echoing in this dark tunnel I'm falling down right now: The Numbness, her certainty that I was done with her due to my "going dark", her telling me, even if it was only once and very brief, that she thought we should D (and she'd done her research on costs etc.), her admitting to her relationship with OM, her not seeing how she could ever get back together with me, especially knowing that she feels such a huge burden has been lifted off my shoulders now that she doesn't have to interact with my family...
Just a laundry list of the negatives that came out yesterday. While I'm sure there are just as many, if not more positives that I can take out of the communications, those aren't clear right now.
I know that I'm not even close to being done fighting here. I know I have a long way to go within myself before I'm even ready to "reach out of the dark" to take the fight to her door.
But that doesn't make any of this easy.
She took all the pictures of us down and took them with her. She took our wedding video... Good signs? Bad signs?
I know this: Looking around this suddenly half-empty house is killing me. I'm breaking down crying every time I notice something missing that was here just yesterday.
Especially W. Yesterday confirmed that I'm not fighting in vain... despite the awful sting I feel today, our conversations yesterday still give me hope of a bright future.
I just can't see it right now. And I can't stop missing her no matter how hard I try.
