Woody Allen once said, quoting Groucho Marx, that "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have someone like me for a member."
The response to your wife -- that you will SOMEDAY reiterate to her again -- is this:
"So let me get this straight: you responded to your unhappiness in our marriage by deciding to have an affair, and when I found out about it, I was supposed to . . . woo you? Fight for you? Be okay in an open marriage? What? I'm sorry, but not only would that violate my OWN boundaries of personal integrity, but I don't even understand how you would WANT to be married to someone who WOULD do that. Maybe your OM will be that for you, but that's not me, and frankly I LIKE me right now."
Someday.
Starsky
Starsky, I'm gonna need another script... because I delivered that one yesterday... practically verbatim! I literally hit every single one of those points, even the jab at OM. It's nice to feel validated... No matter the sting that is sinking in the longer this morning drags on.
Thanks Starsky. You know, maybe I regret a few times that I didn't answer emails or pick up the phone... It's my nature... Everyone who knows me says one of my biggest faults is that I'm just too "sweet" sometimes... that I will let someone walk all over me so I don't hurt their feelings... and I'm not going to lie and say that when W complained about things like me not fighting for her, not answering her communications, and just becoming cold that it doesn't sting... Bad...
And MAYBE it wasn't the right technique to bring her back to the M.
Alk, emotionally healthy relationships aren't that fragile. And true VOWS aren't that breakable. If the lack of responding to a couple of (even if you assume they are) heartfelt and sincere texts is the reason your wife would end the marriage, then how healthy was the marital dynamic that exists in her mind and her heart?
There have been some excellent articles written about the whole "princess mentality" and how UNHEALTHY it is, for BOTH the man AND the woman. Great fodder for a thread here someday, I think.
Alk, emotionally healthy relationships aren't that fragile. And true VOWS aren't that breakable. If the lack of responding to a couple of (even if you assume they are) heartfelt and sincere texts is the reason your wife would end the marriage, then how healthy was the marital dynamic that exists in her mind and her heart?
There have been some excellent articles written about the whole "princess mentality" and how UNHEALTHY it is, for BOTH the man AND the woman. Great fodder for a thread here someday, I think.
Starsky
I completely agree with you Starsky. Although clearly at this stage, an emotionally healthy relationship is impossible.
I know that these were just words she threw at me... Justifications for her actions... Reasons to be p!ssed at me so she could continue with OM... I KNOW that she knows me well enough to know that my lack of response tore me up inside... Hell, she told me she had a hard time telling me things sometimes because she didn't want to hurt my feelings and have me get over-emotional.
But despite that knowledge, despite the "Believe none of what she says" mantra that I keep repeating... I can't help but examine those words to see if there's truth there or if it's truly just noise.
don't contact her. if you do, she'll know you're there waiting for her to be done with her fun, should she ever be. she'll know you're an "option", which you said you won't be. it would be contradictory to what you've told her.
be strong. it's hard but it's the best thing you can do right now, for any future R with her (should there be one) but more importantly, for YOU.
M:63 H:53 S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23 M:15 T:16
Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways." H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12 12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing
don't contact her. if you do, she'll know you're there waiting for her to be done with her fun, should she ever be. she'll know you're an "option", which you said you won't be. it would be contradictory to what you've told her.
be strong. it's hard but it's the best thing you can do right now, for any future R with her (should there be one) but more importantly, for YOU.
But despite that knowledge, despite the "Believe none of what she says" mantra that I keep repeating... I can't help but examine those words to see if there's truth there or if it's truly just noise.
Something for you to think about, Alk, and doesn't even require an answer here, today:
Do you think your wife -- when you didn't respond to a couple of those texts or emails -- in that moment . . . believed you didn't love her? Or was she simply upset that you weren't behaving in the way that she THOUGHT you would, even while she was cheating on you?
Well it's done.... Mark it... 10:00 pm on October 5 2012. This was the day that Alkaline Thoughts was truly born.
In the last 6 hours, I've learned a whole lot. But I'm happy to report that when I wake up in the morning (with what will most likely be a WICKED hangover) I'll still be proud of me.
No, it didn't all go according to script... Yes, I "Backslid" a little bit... but I'm proud of where I am now, and I'm proud of how I handled a situation I didn't think was possible for me to handle.
I'll try to recap in the shortest way I can.
Got home from work and she was packing her stuff. Almost as soon as I walked in, she dropped what she was doing and came in for a hug. I obliged... noticing that while she is still absolutely beautiful... I hardly recognized the girl that was in front of me... She was a skinny girl when she left me, and now she's almost gaunt looking...
Either way, she is still gorgeous.
So we had plenty of small talk after I got home... Talk about work, football, silly stuff... I didn't mention that I'd noticed that she'd driven OM's SUV to my house to pack up her stuff...
Because As soon as I saw OM's car parked outside my house, I called my brother and told him that I might need him to bail me out of jail.
But not really. I would have handled it with grace and dignity. I think.
Either way, he was not there, but she was.
So after about 30 minutes of small talk, I finally just asked "So what the FU&K is going on here W... I have this crazy thing about us being married and here you are moving out for the second time... and you're moving OUR stuff into OM's car!!!?!?!"
She then started talking... She said "I KNOW you're going to agree with this, I KNOW you feel this way too... So I think we should go ahead and get a D"
A HA! I thought.
Upper hand... AT...
I launched RIGHT into the script I'd been practicing for weeks now. You know, the one where I say that I don't want a D, that I've been working HARD on ME, and while I want US to work, I WON'T be a part of her life while ANY OM is in the picture.
She was positively floored by this. She tried in vein to accuse me of "hooking up" with another girl (our mutual friend J for the long time readers) and I merely held up my hand and said "Please W. You and I both know that's BS. I took my vows seriously, and will continue to do so for now. But I need to make this crystal clear: While I want to be in this R... While I want our M to work out, I will NEVER be a part of your life while ANY OM is in the picture.
She spent the next few minutes telling me how she was SO upset that I didn't fight for her... That she was SO UPSET that I never emailed her back after she poured her heart out to me... She said that after ONE particular email, which I didn't respond to (as it was her telling me ONCE AGAIN that a song reminded her of US) that she'd decided that we were done.
I launched into a "In all honesty W, I thought we were done the day that you packed your stuff and left me. I listened to the words that were coming out of your mouth... When you said that you needed to be "alone and independent... to find yourself" so that's what I did... I left you the F alone. And now, you're telling me that you're upset I didn't FIGHT for you... When you're off with OM? I respect myself too much to fight for second place."
After a few more exchanges, I told her that I'd said my peace and I was done. I said "Now you know where I stand. Despite the fact that you haven't seen it, I've been fighting for you... HARD... W... and again, I'm sorry you couldn't see that. But as long as OM or ANY OM is in the picture... I WON'T be a part of your life. If and when you decide that you want to work on our M, you know where to find me. I MIGHT be here, or I might not. But I ask you honestly that you don't contact me for any reason as long as there's an OM in the picture. Now, let's just drop the subject, as you know how I feel and you're still moving out of my house."
We spent the next few hours having small talk again... And I must admit that I snuck in a "I care about you" here and there... But it simply felt right...
She spent a huge amount of time telling me how hurt she was that I didn't reach out to her... That I didn't call her or text her or email her... that I ignored emails from her... She said that one email in particular that I ignored "Let Me Know that You Were Done"... And I simply told her that was silly... That she knew me better than that, and if she could give up on us for one lack of response... then what was I supposed to do...
The rest of the night was filled with small talk... but I don't want to sound like I was perfect here... Whenever I saw an opportunity, I threw in a jab about how hard I'd been fighting, how I wasn't DONE with our R, and how if there was some magical words I could say to get her to stay... I'd utter them.
She told me that she'd told a bunch of her friends about this weekend, and she'd told each of them that she was POSITIVE that i was DONE with our R... She said that her friends told her "You need to be prepared with what you'll say if he's not done" and she told me she told them "that's Impossible. He hasn't reached out to me in months.... He's done".
Once she realized that she was wrong about that.... She told me this... That she'd been thinking about US for a long time... that she has good days and bad... bur for the most part... She's NUMB... She doesn't see us together ever again... She doesn't see how we could work through this...
I pushed this aside... Believe none of what she says...
Later in the evening, she thanked me for my honesty. She thanked me for telling her how hard I'd been fighting.
She spent some time talking about how she thought I'd fight so much harder... that I'd do the "Romeo and Juliette" thing or something similar... That I'd make it obvious that she was the only one for me and I'd do anything to get her back.
I told her "That might have been the case W, had I not known that you were with OM. But what kind of person would I be to fight to be an OPTION? I'll answer that for you: The kind of person who couldn't look himself in the mirror. The kind of person who you left."
She spent a little while after that telling me that she was shocked... That she wasn't expecting me to respond in the way that I did. That she was expecting me to simply let her go and be glad to have her out of my life.
She said she needed some time to digest this.
And all in between these conversations... She kept asking if I'd take a shot of Jameson with her (an old tradition of ours). So I obliged...
And I kept obliging for a while after she left... and then decided to post here. Thanks Chatter
So once she was all packed up... I moved all the boxes to her OMs car and her roommates car. She asked her roommate to leave us alone so we could talk.
During this time, I delivered my speech again, but in a more direct way. I told her that I wanted to make sure she was crystal clear on where I stood... Want this R, Working Hard, Fighting, But don't EVER want to hear from her again while there's an OM in the picture. When she decides to come back, so long as OMs are out of the picture, I'll be willing to listen... But I don't know where I'll be.
So, she's gone now. I cried for about 20 minutes after she left. And It [censored] that she's gone again. But HOLY FU&K i'm proud of me. I'm proud I stood up for what I believe in.
And you know what... I think she's got an awful lot to think about now.
I can't pretend that I don't want her back... That I didn't want her to stay and try to work things out... But now, after tonight, I'm SURE she knows where I stand. That I want US to work, that I believe in ME, in HER, and in US, but I WON'T STAND for her being with OM.
And despite the backslides now and again of me telling her that I want her to stay, that I love her, and that I'd do anything for US... I KNOW my message was received loud and clear.
I love my W. But now... I can honestly say... I love ME too!
This is what I think is happening here in her mind: nearly all cheaters use some sort of compartmentalization and rationalization to justify their destructive behavior. For some, it's "Well, you were being an ASS (and they will give you examples of where you were "mean" to them, or even emotionally "abusive") . . . or, they will try to CREATE these moments, thru classic "fight-picking."
When the betrayed spouse behaves with dignity however, like Alkaline has done, there's no "ass" card that his wife can play, so she plays the "Well, you didn't FIGHT for me!!" card.
It's all b.s., and this is how you can know:
HAD you fought for her (in any way other than foot rubs and such) . . . had you exposed her affair for example, or hired a P.I., or confronted her OM at his place of work or something . . . had you done ANY of those things that some of the more aggressive strategies advocate . . . you know what she would have said THEN??
Wait for it . . .
"You're controlling!"
EXACTLY
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
It's nice to feel validated... No matter the sting that is sinking in the longer this morning drags on.