Keep breathing...

[hopefulinga]

It will take time to build the trust. The wounds are still raw. I haven't been able to jump off the trust cliff at this point because I haven't gotten past if he's lying about something small, what else is he lying about? I've taken a break from the trust book and the co-dependency book for a little bit while I get siutated in AlAnon.

I think you need to care. If you don't he probably won't build up the trust as easily.

[mamabird]

H and I went another round on the same ol' discussion last night. I just wanted to talk to him about the finances and of course it degraded into our normal unproductive talk (cheeseless tunnel). He's not willing to share his CC info with me at this point, so I have to think he's hiding something, but there's not much I can do about that except for accept it and move on.

My new angle with him is that we've got to try to move forward off this dwelling in the past blaming discussion. When we do talk I take responsibility and accountability. I realize I was no picnic to live with and was pretty unappreciative of everything that he did for me and our family. He's certainly right about that, and that's something I CAN fix going forward.

What I can't fix is the betrayal part of it, all I can do is explain where I'm coming from. I wish he'd read a book to gain some outside insight but that's not going to happen at this point. I asked him to take it day by day, meaning, look at each day as a new opportunity in and of itself.

For the moment, I'm trying to steer these conversations into a peaceful and somewhat resolved ending by giving him a little back rub towards the end of our talk. I think it kind of mends the feelings a little and helps soothe the situation. Last night once we shifted to that we started talking about the kids, and school, and "normal" things. So at least no one leaves the room upset.

At the very least, I kept my cool for most of it. Even though we are arguing, it's still more honest than we were and we are addressing things that have needed to be addressed for a long time. At one point he said, "Don't patronize me" which actually is good, because he called me out on something in the moment, where I could address it directly. Previously, if something happened that he didn't like, it would come up weeks later if at all.

[Breakdown]

What I can't fix is the betrayal part of it, all I can do is explain where I'm coming from.

Be careful with the explaining. Every time I've done this, my W took it as me blaming something else, or justifying my actions. Make sure that you really own it and there's no room for confusion....and actually, I think it's a lot easier on you to simply say "I screwed up, and I'm working my tail off to understand it in my mind so that it never happens again." If you give them too much info (i.e. I didn't feel loved), then all of a sudden it takes a tangent and you end up defending yourself.

I'm not sure that's what you meant by "explain" but just in case, I'll leave it.

[mamabird]

If I had a dime for every time I said "I screwed up" we wouldn't be in this financial mess! Just kidding. Its very difficult to navigate correctly and find that balance. I'm continuing to try.

[Breakdown]

If I had a dime for every time I said "I screwed up" we wouldn't be in this financial mess! Just kidding. Its very difficult to navigate correctly and find that balance. I'm continuing to try.

LOL...hang in there.

I have found it's better to just listen to my W's complaints and validate. Start with that....explain things you feel and think only if prompted to do so, and even then, tread carefully.

[mamabird]

It does get better a little tiny bit each day... The littlest tiniest bit

[mamabird]

Today is H's mother's b-day. He didn't call her or email her or anything, much less invite her to dinner or anything like that. I got a card for her and we all signed it. I almost put it in the mail without asking H to sign it since I'm so used to doing things without him now.

His R with mom has always been rocky but since we've been married it's been fine. This is odd behavior for him and I can only think that our bomb stirred up some old unresolved feelings about the abandonment. I feel sorry for him that he hasn't been able to resolve that. I know the boys haven't seen her in months either. Makes me sad.

[25yearsmlc]

why can't you connect with your MIL and have her see the boys?

MUST your h agree to that, if he does not have to himself?

IMO, your h has a serious problem with forgiveness as he is STILL holding onto abandonment from childhood...oh Good grief, at some point we have to be adults and wipe our slates clean. HIS life would be easier if he let go of that stuff.

I KNOW you screwed up (as if you don't) but what people are missing here is how badly HE is treating you NOW.

What about that? What about today?

How long do you wear the hair shirt?

Geez, get out the stockades...

[hopefulinga]

IMO, your h has a serious problem with forgiveness as he is STILL holding onto abandonment from childhood...oh Good grief, at some point we have to be adults and wipe our slates clean. HIS life would be easier if he let go of that stuff.

This is a valid point. And there is nothing we can do to change it. My H has the same forgiveness issues, and I know his life (and ultimately mine) would be easier if he forgave, which doesn't mean forget.

LA, have you been through some other issues that took him a long time to get out of? I know you asked me once about grudges, are there any other ones out there for your sitch? Can we whack them in the head?

I hope that your H follows doctors' advice with his meds. The fact that he went is a good sign, but I know that you are concerned about what he is taking.

And you are talking, even if it is not always a perfect talk, you are getting things out in the open.

[mamabird]

I called MIL yesterday and wished her happy birthday (left her a message) and told her to call me any time. I'm afraid that if I pursue things with her too much it will upset my H and make it seem like I am "going around him". Which, I guess I would be.

Admittedly, MIL is a little odd. First of all, she abandoned her children so that in and of itself is a pretty big red flag. She's pretty selfish and hasn't done much to change that over the years, although she has apologized to H and his sister. But she still does weird stuff. She lives 1 1/2 hours away from us and would come down here to get her hair cut, 10 min from our house and not call. That's just odd.

H is a big grudge holder for sure. He said he did forgive me for not behaving well around OM1 (ignoring H's feelings) but when we went to MC back in July, she called him out on that, saying she didn't think he had forgiven me. Then he decided he didn't like that therapist. I also think that H has not processed his feelings around his mother. I can't say that with 100% accuracy but it seems to be the case.

He has a pattern of sticking his head in the sand. First with mother, then with finances (he had bad credit when we started dating and he told me), then continued that in our M - never told me when he was unhappy, just swallowed it. Now again with the finances. The Ostrich, we can call him.

25, you are right about wiping the slate clean for his own sake as well as the sake of our M. I have asked him to put everything behind a door for now and close it, so we can move forward. Whether we can do that or not remains to be seen. The channeling that I had back in July told me that H slides between extreme self deprecation and extreme arrogance, which is just basically going between beating yourself up and beating others up, but none of that solves the real problem of his insecurity. My father says H really punishes himself, and I can see that to be true.

Hopeful, as far as other grudges are concerned, I'm sure there are many. One time he was pretty sick and we had to go to the hospital. The kids were much younger then, and I asked him to join us at the table for dinner (if he could). He didn't want to and I guess I got upset at him for that. Then I jokingly said to him later "You ruined my whole day." He knows it was a joke but still was upset about it. He still brings this up as a character defect on my part. He doesn't talk about the time on Xmas day when he had the flu and I took care of everything and let him rest.

We've all done sh!tty things at one time or another. Maybe I've done more than my fair share. But I think the key is to ask ourselves why we do what we do. Are we bad people? Or are our situations coloring our behavior? And if it's situational, what can we do to change the situation? Can we change our behavior and reactions? Do we even want to change? I am willing to give him (us) the benefit of the doubt and roll up my sleeves and get to work. He doesn't see that there can be change and he's happy to leave it at that. Wish I could get him to read 5LL so he'd understand my love tank was empty...