25, I was just thinking about Retrouvaille. Since we don't have an extra $150 a week right now for MC i may be able to get him to agree that way.
Anyway, I have to thank you and my other supporters here for the encouragement. I know you are right that I have to start expressing my wants and needs. I tried to start that conversation last night but he didn't want to talk then. He said to me at one point, "I'm still your H and until I'm not you need to honor that." So why does that not work in the reverse???
I agree that I am getting the short end of the stick and many people have said, enough is enough, you've paid your dues. If we can get some good intervention at this point (MC or Retrouvaille) that may work enough to get me back into the bedroom or get him back at the dinner table.
What happens is that whenever I try to express my point of view, he takes the standpoint that I am the guilty party, so he can get the upper hand. It's a power/control issue, plain and simple. We are not playing as a team, we are playing against each other - and that is not good. The problem is, when I stand up to him he sees that as "argumentative", so backing down is a 180 for me. The problem with that is, I'm screwed either way. I'm either an argumentative b!tch or I'm a doormat/martyr. I need a serious advocate.
Me54, H53 M 23, T 25 S20, S18 BD: April 2024 Moved out: August 2024
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.
"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
Please consider Retrouvaille, LA. We are going next weekend so I will keep you posted . . . There are tons of weekends offered in your area. Please check it out.
Also, one thing that I keep meaning to post here. There's a movie out now called "The Perks of Being a Wallflower". I haven't seen it but there's a great line in the trailer:
We accept the love that we think we deserve.
Just about started bawling in the movie theater when I heard that because it's so true... and such a sad commentary on my life.
Me54, H53 M 23, T 25 S20, S18 BD: April 2024 Moved out: August 2024
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.
"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
Good luck Unbidden - please let us know how it goes... the next one coming up here is weekend of 11/2 but that's H's birthday weekend... I'm sure he's got big plans with our neighbor or some other wonderful friend of his... nevertheless, I will ask.
Me54, H53 M 23, T 25 S20, S18 BD: April 2024 Moved out: August 2024
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.
"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
What happens is that whenever I try to express my point of view, he takes the standpoint that I am the guilty party, so he can get the upper hand. It's a power/control issue, plain and simple. We are not playing as a team, we are playing against each other - and that is not good. The problem is, when I stand up to him he sees that as "argumentative", so backing down is a 180 for me. The problem with that is, I'm screwed either way. I'm either an argumentative b!tch or I'm a doormat/martyr. I need a serious advocate.
I've got the same dynamic and it is very frustrating. When I stand up, I am "challenging" him. I've tried to start to think about how to accept H's view point as his but politely disagreeing.
M44 H57 D17 (special needs) M 18 yrs Bomb 7/2/12 Still living together
Me: Did you see my email about Retrouvaille? H: Yeah, is that the thing our friends J & C did? Me: I'm not sure H: How did you hear about it? Me: Some friends at work (NOTE: telling him I heard about it here would have killed it right then and there) H: Well, I'm not sure. Is it for people who want to save their marraiges? Me: Yes, well, it's for people who have a lot of problems, like us, and who need to learn how to communicate better. I hear it's really great. H: Well, I'm not really that interested and I'm leery. I'd need to learn more about it. There are a lot of predators out there. (NOTE: I knew that he would say this if the idea didn't come from one of his cool friends) Me: It's run by the church. H: (no answer to that) Me: It's only $150 H: But it's a whole weekend (as if 14 years isn't worth investing a weekend) Me: I think we could use some help in communication. H: Communication is not our problem, it's your behavior and your character.
Ok, I'm paraphrasing somewhat... but that was the gist of it.
We didn't get into a fight because honestly we didn't have time and the kids were lurking... but he keeps saying he doesn't want to work on it or try. Even though he suggested MC (whatever that might do). Even though he has been helping a bit more around the house. Even though he seems to be on board with our financial austerity plan.
I had to tell him his point of view was very narrow and fought back on the communication issue - yes, our problem is communication.
Any ideas on how I can convince him further on Retrouvaille? I think our best bet is to find someone we know who's done it.
This guy needs a serious 2 x 4. To think that my behavior was influenced only by my character and not by anything that was going on in the R at the time is completely small minded. I feel like I constantly hit a brick wall with him. He certainly is sticking to his own timeline and I just have to learn to be more patient and not push. But he really seems dead set on his own point of view and not being open to any possibilities. What a shame for all of us.
Me54, H53 M 23, T 25 S20, S18 BD: April 2024 Moved out: August 2024
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.
"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
You are probably going to have to back off of trying to convince him for now. You threw it out there and he said he needed more info. If you try to push it, he will run from it and will see you as trying to control it.
He again sounds like mine - the problems are your fault. I would also not fight him on his point of view. It is his and you can disagree with him on that. That's all he sees right now and it will take more time to change it, if you can. If he will go to MC, at least try it. We're 17 years in and my H won't try anything, so an offer for MC is at least something.
It is a shame for all 4 of you. I feel the same way. Remember I said my H said if we R it will be on his terms and his timeline? I think you are being told the same thing, unfortunately. And it is stinky.
M44 H57 D17 (special needs) M 18 yrs Bomb 7/2/12 Still living together
H: But it's a whole weekend (as if 14 years isn't worth investing a weekend) Me: I think we could use some help in communication. H: Communication is not our problem, it's your behavior and your character.
I find that pretty enlightening. If nothing else, you can understand where his head is. Accepting responsibility for your part in the M is not an easy thing. You can probably look back and see how you blamed him for everything initially, and then slowly started taking responsibility for your part. When you do, of course, you want the other party to do the same, but their timeline isn't going to be the same as yours (I went round and round on this one with my W, to my detriment).
With regards to communication, my W has said the same thing to me, and when we do the exercises, we really do connect. There isn't a lot of explanation required for us to "get it," so my W is right to a point. But when you start breaking down how you communicate, you eventually see where there's a lot of room for improvement.
Couple of things you could mention on retrouvaille that may help:
1) I'd equate the weekend to 20+ hours of MC. For the money, you can't beat it. 2) If your H doesn't want to waste 12-24 months in MC, this brings a lot of stuff to head pretty fast. 3) You can leave any time. It kinda defeats the purpose, but you could. 4) You can skip the mass on Sunday without impacting your weekend (we did), but then again, you'd probably be better to not mention the mass lol
I think I've said this before, but it bears repeating. When we went to retrouv, I'd probably spent a good 12-18 months already working on a lot of my stuff, reading a ton, thinking a lot, making changes. When I did the retrouv weekend, I thought it was almost like a summary of the highpoints of what I'd already learned/experienced. I was really impressed how well they tackled the major problems I'd dealt with and put it in a weekend format. It really is an awesome experience and I was really blown away by the success stories and the immediate changes by some of those attending.
One of the things that I wouldn't mention to him, but I think you should be aware of is that there are 6 post sessions, that run about 4 hours each. They are an important part of the experience. And after that, there are a lot of opportunities to continue to meet with the group.
