Yeah, I know I can't "fix" my parents...I have told Mom this on numerous occasions because I know she looks to me to do this...it is the role-reversal thing that is between us.
I can offer her the "tools" to use though to make the improvements she claims at times she wants. It is in my offering where everything spins out of control
Let's face it...I get angry when she asks me for suggestions and then, out of hand, says that none of them will work or that I am just crazy or wrong. I am frustrated by such easy dismissal of an idea without it even being TRIED first. Why ask for help or to be listened to if none of it makes any difference to you or to the assumptions you are going to make regardless?
I have tried refusing to be sucked into her sitch, asked her NOT to talk about it, offered no suggestions of my own, just listened to her rant, ignored her ranting altogether etc. These actions usually result in an escalation of her undesirable behaviour.
I have tried DB'ing her...to no avail.
The only conclusion I have come to so far is that She has to be the CENTER OF ATTENTION at all times and she will do whatever it takes to make that happen. Even if it means humiliating herself and those around her in the process. All that matters is that the focus is then squarely on her
I am even aware that the best person to address these things with her is a mental health professional. I can get her to see one but the problem is SHE LIES TO THEM! She has told me this herself and GLOATS over the fact that she put one over on them
Thanks for listening...and I give that thanks to all who have read this current sitch as well as to Water and her great advice.
Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Has your Mom always sought to be the centre of attention? Been rather dramatic (that frying pan!!! ), emotionally manipulative? Kind of shallow? Blame shifting? Strong sense of "entitlement"?
Its just that these traits are more common and extreme in certain personality disorders...NOT to say your mom has one (I think I've been wrapped on the knuckles for "BB diagnosis" enough to know better than to suggest that!!!)
It's just that it's MUCH harder (not impossible) for folks who DO have these traits to see their own role, to take responsibility etc, and I feel your anguish at her just not "getting it".
There are secondary pay offs for staying the same: attention, control, sympathy (although this can wear thin).
What really got my attention was your comment about her LYING to her therapists and feeling good about "getting one over on them"...
Hello Shiny...your on kind of early today aren't you??
Quote: Has your Mom always sought to be the centre of attention? Been rather dramatic (that frying pan!!! ), emotionally manipulative? Kind of shallow? Blame shifting? Strong sense of "entitlement"?
Yes to all of those things and more. Thow in multiple suicide attempts and threats, an exaggeration of any illness...real or perceived, binge eating and bulimia plus a bunch of other not so desirable traits as well
What little I know of psychology tells me that there is definitely "more' going on then appears but since I am not a psychologist (I tell her this as well) it is not for me to guess.
Hugz and many thanks, Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Quote: Let's face it...I get angry when she asks me for suggestions and then, out of hand, says that none of them will work or that I am just crazy or wrong. I am frustrated by such easy dismissal of an idea without it even being TRIED first. Why ask for help or to be listened to if none of it makes any difference to you or to the assumptions you are going to make regardless?
Oh yeah...that really rings a bell. I call it the "Yes, But" people. They moan on and on. They ask for advice. If you give any or suggest anything they say, "Yes, but that won't work because...." Fill in the blank.
The pay off they are looking for is attention and to be in a martyr/victim role...and you are messing it up by looking at constructive solutions instead of saying "you POOR THING".
I'm sure anyone can do this once in a while, but if I notice it continuing--I avoid those people like the plauge. They can suck you dry if you let them!
I'm with Shiny (no big surprise ) in that your mom has more going on than some poorly-handled betrayed spouse issues.
My mom has much different issues, but equally distructive. I don't spend a lot of time around her & keep the subject steered away from certain subjects when I am around her. If niether one of those things work, I excuse myself and just leave! Some parents are, unfortunately, pretty toxic.
Quote: Oh yeah...that really rings a bell. I call it the "Yes, But" people. They moan on and on. They ask for advice. If you give any or suggest anything they say, "Yes, but that won't work because...." Fill in the blank.
The pay off they are looking for is attention and to be in a martyr/victim role...and you are messing it up by looking at constructive solutions instead of saying "you POOR THING".
Talista
I couldn't agree more. My sis, for example, is very overweight, and over the years I have sent her info and made suggestions of many kinds about losing weight, as I happen to be interested in health issues and have many books and references. She has NEVER taken a single suggestion on board, but still says things like "I would do ANYTHING to be slim again" !!??
So the last thing I said a while ago was, "Well, if you ever need any info, you know where to come" and have left it at that. No more doing more of the same when it wasn't working!
Another thing. She has been an abolute brick in the last few months of this hell - talking to me on the phone, listening, 'being there', having me to stay at her place, giving me and D a safe haven etc. But more recently, when I started to express my feeling that some of H's allegations about me at bombshell had a bit of truth in them, she quite violently disagreed! I was taken aback. She seemed to be againt the idea of my taking any resposibility at all for the state of my marriage. It was then I started to keep these kinds of thought to myself. I have not confided in too many people about DBing, because all they can see is me being soft in the head.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Quote: Oh yeah...that really rings a bell. I call it the "Yes, But" people. They moan on and on. They ask for advice. If you give any or suggest anything they say, "Yes, but that won't work because...." Fill in the blank.
The pay off they are looking for is attention and to be in a martyr/victim role...and you are messing it up by looking at constructive solutions instead of saying "you POOR THING".
Normally I avoid being around people like this too much as well. As you said, we all do this at one time or another ourselves but we don't LIVE for it My mother is the only one I make an exception for and only because she is my mother.
Maybe it isn't very kind of me but I don't let her play the martyr/victim role with me and as far as I know I am the only person who doesn't...well H doesn't either but he just walks away instead of saying something One of my standard responses to her is "BS!". I tell her straight up that she is playing that role as well. Am I enabling her attention seeking when this happens? Probably, but I refuse to allow her to wallow in her "victimness" when she is around me...if nothing else it gets her to stop talking about it for awhile.
Contrary to what some might think I gain no pride from any of this either I usually feel pretty cruddy after a talk like we had the other night if not at times downright ashamed because I SHOULDN'T talk like that to my mother or anyone who is my elder in that way. I was taught better manners then that. My own personal convictions won't allow me to lie or placate either and they are strong enough to override the manners thing. What is really crazy is that Mom is one of the people who instilled those convictions in me...go figure?
Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Weight is a major issue with Mom to (sigh). It has been for all MY life it seems I have done all of the things you have done with your sister to no avail as well. She is a diabetic and has been dignosed as morbidly obese...to all of those who love her it is imperative that she lose weight to improve her health and prolong her life (even if she is a little nutty we would still like to keep her around )...to Mom it is an "IMAGE" problem and the rest of us care just beating up on and making fun of her because she is fat. She also tends to think that my father's love is measurable in pounds...the more she weighs the less he loves her etc. A vicious cycle to say the least.
She got totally PO'd at me because she asked me to make her a sugar-free chocolate pie for her B'day and I didn't do it. I was going to but she had previously made it very clear to me that she was back on her diabetic diet and was sticking to it...she asked ALL of us to help her and support her and NOT let her slip. She was so adamant about it that pops even bought her the exercise equipment she asked for for her b'day even though experience has taught him she DOESN't follow through and the equip. ends up gathering dust.
She asked me where her pie was. I told her I didn't make it because she said she was back on her diet and wanted to stay on it. She yelled at me "THAT PIE IS ON MY DIET!!" I TRIED to patiently explain to her that yes, she could eat a cup of sugar-free pudding but NOT a whole darn pie, that the pie would still be fattening regardless of it being sugarfree (I counted the calories when I went to get the ingredients) and that I WASN'T going to enable her when she asked me not to. She screamed she'd make it herself then and I told her that was fine, that was her choice to make. The thought was also in the back of my mind that she would eat the whole pie, deliberately make herself sick and my work get flushed down the toilet...I wasn't about to enable that either
SHe hasn't made the pie yet
And my mom started out as a brick in regards to my deteriorating M to at the time. Then hers tanked. I think she was expecting me to jump in the pity pool and join her in the H bashing and vindictiveness she was partaking in. She was incredulous when I told her that she was acting like a spoiled child and her behaviour was shamefull to say the least (she did some really whacked out things). She tried to tell me "the same thing happened to you, this is what you SHOULD be doing". My turn to be incredulous after that statement!
She still doesn't SEE how I can deal with things the way I have, WHY I don't continuously hold my H accountable for his transgressions, why I don't take back what I am owed...heck, she doesn't even understand why I take on part of the blame. She won't accept the reasons I give her. I stopped trying to explain it to her, now I just tell her that it was the CHOICE that I made.
Hugz, Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
You have been through so much. Dealing with your own Sit as well as the stability of your family.
I'm thinking about you Zoo; whats healthy for you, family or not?
What a responsibiltiy you are carrying around! I truely hope that she seeks true help for her issues. They definately beyond her ability to solve. Tough love comes to my mind.
Zoo I can only offer up my thougths and prayers! Keep up the awsome work. My hat goes off to you!!
I'm staying at the hotel here in Zooland. I went over to my old condo and looked in the windows (ground floor don't ya know )...everything looked kinda threadbare and dusty, I didn't really bother to clean up when I left.
You could just see the faint outline of footprints in the dust on the floor, footprints marking the hundreds of miles I must have logged from my ceaseless pacing throughout the rooms. The old sofa still retains the imprint from when I would pause to rest my weary soul. It was beckoning to me folks...trying to lure me in with it's promise of comfort and security.
I'm still not CERTAIN why I'm here in this place again. I know the details and/or triggers that precipitated my return but WTF? This is just plain stupidity on my part
Triggers:
H started acting weird last week. He was distant, wasn't in the "mood", non-communicative, more introspective, avoiding etc. This started last Tues. and was in direct contrast to his actions the day and week(s) prior to that. I couldn't coax a genuine smile from him and when I attempted to speak his LL (touch)it seemed like he struggled with it. I tried to discuss it with him in a non-confrontive way (I think I wrote about it on my previous thread?) on a couple of occasions. H just told me he was fine, he was happy and I was being over-analytical. His aura (?) sucked though
This all had alarm-bells ringing and caused the hair on my arms to stand on end...this is exactly the way H would get this past summer; H would have some time off and we would be getting along great, seemingly happy, H would go back to work and BAM! The switch would be thrown and I'd be living with an evil alien again, no thanks to OW stirring things up with her demands
I didn't want to jump to the ASSumption of that being the cause though and I still don't. I did ask H about it too, as diplomatically as I could and was told no. It just didn't ring right though His above actions continued through the weekend and into Mon. His reason for the weekend was because he had planned to just stay at home at least one day and get some things done (right) and instead we were on the go all wknd. Hmmm...we were on the go because of stuff HE wanted
As of last night the switch seems to have been thown back into the "on" position again and H seems to be in much better spirits. I just can't seem to find my way up there with him I'm still stuck on last week-Mon.
Last night H asked me more times then I ever remember him doing in our R "what's wrong...are you ok? " HE commented on my being pre-occupied I wanted to say something so bad but I didn't. It would be beating a dead horse and just "more of the same" I just didn't answer his queries (I didn't want to lie).
~sigh~ Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
), emotionally manipulative? Kind of shallow? Blame shifting?
My mother is the only one I make an exception for and only because she is my mother.