Zooland, The Trials and Tribulations Of...

[sage]

SOmetimes I wonder if I will ever be able to pull both feet (not to mention my a$$) out of Zooland, H asked me the other night WHY I had to analyze everything...I told
him "it's my nature"...h told me I needed to change my nature then

Well...you probably know that I can relate to this...my h described it as "having to chew everything up and spit it out". Nice visual.

Simple truth is that I LIKE thinking about things and mulling them over in my mind. I like mentally testing a variety of solutions and playing them out.

what neither of us likes is when it starts to have a negative effect on us...when my analysis leads to a negative spin on the R or on life in general.

So...I'm trying to use it for "good" not "evil" because, frankly, like every other trait the analyzing side of me has both positives and negatives! The same analytical mind that can wreak havoc can also create a complicated vacation plan...or it can help me solve a tough staffing problem at work...or...you see the point.

when I start thinking that I HAVE to change this part of myself that I actually kind of like I get resentful and angry -- a la "why do I have to change this thing that may have actually helped us save our m?" -- 'cause seems to me that DB'ing can be easier if you've got that kind of mind that you can use moderately...

So...try to strike a balance...keep the mind busy analyzing things that don't impact your R (puzzles, work stuff, etc)....

Sage

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hey Zoo,

First of all, I too have walked the black hole that I'll call the "Bad Lands". For me, I find that when I start questioning everything and everyone, posting the positives really helps me. Have you experimented with that?

For me, it tends to run rampent still with my MIL...but if I can find ONE positive to cling to, I tend to stay out of the Bad Lands much better.

BTW, I liked the suggestion you received by Water, to name the positive place, Zooland.

As for you Ma. Man, I walked that path too when I first found out about Monkey cheating on me, after we'd been married for a year. He'd cheated on me while we were dating with his ex girlfriend and didn't confess until after we'd been married a year. I of course, badgered him into confessing and then treated him the way your Pops is being treated.

The best understanding of the whole situation that I can tell you now, is that I saw his cheating on me as a very personal thing. I didn't look at it objectively and say, "I knew they didn't have closure yet. I DID tell him that I wasn't comfortable with the situation and that I thought we should stop seeing each other so that he could make up his mind about whether he wanted to keep her in his life or not. He told me there was nothing there anymore and that he absolutely wanted to be with me. Therefore I did nothing wrong and this is all about him."

Was I so logical and compassionate with myself?

Nope.

I was convinced that his cheating on me with her was just the ultimate confirmation that I was a horrible person. Absolutly unworthy of love.

So, I punished him for it over and over and over again.

Unfortunately, the only thing that could snap me out of such insanity WAS him leaving me. And me taking Zoloft.

I don't know if the reasons I treated my husband so badly are the same reasons your Mom is doing that to Pops. But if it is the same reason, there is absolutely nothing he can do to atone. She is going to have to learn her own value and believe in her own worth. And gain her own strength.

I hope that helps.

Hugs.

[Livnlearn]

I really don't understand this. I have read so many different posts here on the BB where an A was involved and I have yet to see anyone as "out there" as she is...someone who for all intents and purposes is lucky but would rather be consumed by all that poison. I know that everyone deals with this type of sitch in their own way but there does tend to be an underlying theme of WANTINGto forgive so we can enjoy our new M/R to it's fullest...or am I wrong? I had the same thing happen to me as she had, my m was in far more danger of ending even then hers was but I still can't understand the need she has to cling to all that ugliness.

Zoo,

My hunch is this - if your Dad wanted to leave your Mum, then she would be pleading with him to stay and saying she'll forgive him. Because he is still in the M, she has the 'luxury', if you like, of holding it against him and extracting milage out of being the innocent, wounded party.

Perhaps we always want what we can't easily have. Just a thought.

Livnlearn

[Zoo]

Well...how about a 180 on your mom? Sounds like you've been trying to show her "the way", to talk her out of her current mode of operation. What if you started agreeing with her instead?

As she gets worked up being convinced that dad is cheating...you get worked up...instead of disagreeing with her, agree with her?

Sage

Oh dear....I have tried this Sage...ONCE.

It did not go well at all. Mom went completely off the deep end and I had to wrestle with her to get the frying pan out of her hands. SHe was on her way out the door with it, pops was outside with his back to her...he would have literally not known what hit him!

In some twisted way I think she wants to be bullied, needs someone to argue with her and convince her she's on the wrong track to some extent. The bad thing is is that it drains me and leaves me wound at the same time. H doesn't appreciate this. He loves mom don't get me wrong but he thinks she is off her rocker.

H told me last night that we will never go on another trip with them again. This is because one of Mom's favorite forms of making pops pay is to make a huge scene in public. It doesn't take much for this to occur either...simply not hearing something she said during a conversation is enough to send her off and running This happened on a trip we all made together to Nashville and it was UGLY. H lost his respect for her that day and her continuing to act that way when we go someplace with them hasn't done anything to help him gain it back

It is a sad tangled mess to be sure

Zoo

[psluke]

Ok, I see a part of me there. Not the not letting go of past transgressions so much as I want someone to convince me I'm wrong so I can believe what I really want to believe anyway.

But, most of the time it doesn't work too well anyway. Sometimes it does.

It has to be logically presented by someone whose thinking I trust more than my own. Which is a lot of people's!

But what I am finding is I actually have to figure it out for myself and believe it inside myself. It HELPS to have people tell me things or point out things they see, but the actual decision to believe or to trust or whatever has to come from inside me.

This isn't any help and now I'm rambling on your thread so I will shut up.

[water_runs_dry]

Greetings Zoo~

Your frustration with your family is understandable. I am struck with a recurring thought as I read your posts.... (It may not be popular)

Your parents are grown people and as much as you would love to help your mom see things from a different perspective, your dad be strong... you cannot force them. They must live their lives.

Their drama is effecting YOU! Your mom not giving up the pain and hurt is her choice. You don't have to save your dad or mom. They both play a role and I see you taking on way to much responsibility for their relationship.

It seems that roles are reversed somewhat. You have the benefit of all this wonderful knowledge you have gained through DB. Your parents are still infants in the R scheme of things. You now feel this need to teach them all you have learned.

{{{{ZOO}}}}

They must take personal accontability for themselves. You are allowing them to suck you into their drama. Detach from THEM!

Same type of principals as DB. Detach and focus on you. I agree with Sage. Do a 180. Then let them be responsible for their own actions. They are pushing your buttons... it is not good. I can feel the pain you are writing.

I hope this did not come accross harshly as that is not my intent. I am just sensing a lot going on here and this is a total outsiders opinion based on what you have written.

As with all DB principals, you must find what works for you. What you are doing right now is not working for YOU and it isn't making a darn bit of difference to them! You havn't "fixed" them, nor can you. Only gotten more frustrated yourself.

again {{{{zoo}}}} to you.

Blessings
Water

[Zoo]

Wise woman,

Yes, for the most part I LIKE having an analytical mind too, it does tend to serve me well in just about every aspect of my life with the exception of my M. I'm wondering if it might not have to do with the fact that the M is a 2 person dynamic rather then just ME trying to solve a problem with an inanimate object or abstract thought. That other person tends to throw a bolt into the works and continuity of thought is broken.

It could be that the evil aliens came for H again and missed and snagged my brain instead...POOR ALIENS

Hugz,
Zoo

[psluke]

THANK YOU!!!

Needed a laugh this afternoon!

ROFLMAO!!!!

[Zoo]

Thanks for dropping by PIB,

Yes, I have posted positives or rather I was trying to make positive posts I'd like to think that a lot of my last thread was more positive then negative...hence my question regrding the "Drama Queen" persona. Was everything getting too positive, good and MUNDANE? I think in this thread I am trying to understand my psyche and the dynamics it creates as much as anything and why/how/what drives it.

BTW, I liked the suggestion you received by Water, to name the positive place, Zooland.

I do have a name for my positive place I call it ME. Zooland is the name I gave to the place my evil twin drags me away to when she is bored and wants to stir things up...the literal name H will ask me what I am thinking about, I tell him "nothing, I'm off in Zooland right now." THen he justs waits.


I am hoping to talk to Mom about going back on her AD/AA's tonight. Her dr took her off of them when it dawned on him that she had been on them for 20 years without a break. I strongly believe she is one of those people who will have to remain on them for the rest of her life. Everyone, including the dr, has been trying to disclude it to the withdrawal process but I have noted that things do seem to be getting worse rather then better. Hopefully they will try her on something new...she was on the max dosage of her old meds and still "crazy-making" I do not offer that as an excuse for her behaviour by any means nor do I except it when she tries to use it. What I described in my post was what occures IN SPITE OF the meds.

But if it is the same reason, there is absolutely nothing he can do to atone. She is going to have to learn her own value and believe in her own worth. And gain her own strength.

This is what gets me part of the time. SHe will ask WHAT to do to get past everything (in one of her more lucid moments) and when I tell her that what worked for me was changing me and getting myself back to begin with...well she then says that that isn't going to happen. She wants to know why SHE should have to change, she is not the one who did anything wrong. She accepts NO responsibility for her M going on the rocks. If Pops wouldn't have behaved in xyz fashion, she wouldn't have acted the way she did so see, it is his fault and he is the one to blame. It is mind-numbing to listen to her reasoning.

Thanks,
Zoo

[Zoo]

My hunch is this - if your Dad wanted to leave your Mum, then she would be pleading with him to stay and saying she'll forgive him. Because he is still in the M, she has the 'luxury', if you like, of holding it against him and extracting milage out of being the innocent, wounded party.

Perhaps we always want what we can't easily have. Just a thought.

Livnlearn

LnL,

All I can say to this is a big fat YES!

Hugz,
Zoo