Hi, You are doing this right - being able to access the good memories is an important part of the healing process. These then become a part of your mental landscape, and mean that you are fundamentally a happy person with good memories. A terrific basis for moving forward, sad though the loss of that life is making you right now.
My personal take on this is that we need to sort ourselves out and not expect that a new relationship will help the process.
A new relationsihp is just that - something new, not something that is part of the healing process. Would you want to be part of healing someone else?
I think you will be fine, it all takes much longer than we realise it is going to. But one day we are above the cloud line, and can look down at the path we have scrambled up.
Dreams for me usually indicate that Im working through something because they always seem to revolve around some issue bothering me.
I had a dream XH came for me and showed up out of town where I had gone for the weekend. Somehow I knew he was coming. He extended his hand, helped me stand up and we embraced. It was so nice to have him in my arms again.
We were at some theme park, or boardwalk or something and his paternal side of the family was there. This is the family that he wrote off a year ago, and has just NOW gotten back on facebook into the land of the living so they can see him. He turned off his facebook when they all tried to reach him that way when he first left. They wanted to help us and help XH knowing he was going through something. Proof enough, you can't help an MLCer...they just write you off.
AT any rate in the dream XH had a jewelry case that obcviously had some bracelet in it, and he told me he had to give me something.
At the time we were hand in hand, and next thing you know I was distracted by someone's kids not all together and we needed to find that one child. When we did find the child, XH was gone. I caught up with him and he was walking away and I grabbed his hand and turned around and stopped and looked at me.
That's when it ended.
So to sum it up, I think that just means Im used to him coming and going in my life....and it signifies he turns away if I have to turn to something important, like children.
Damn it...maybe I should try and pray for indifference, but if I do that all the feelings eventually come back to be dealt with anyway.
Im just sick of going through phases where I don't want to see him ever again, to reaching a level of understanding and forgiveness and then missing him all over again.
I don't have energy to hate all the time and have no desire to do so. But it [censored] feeling something for someone and not being able to express it because of the fear that brings. Fear of rejection, fear of ridicule, fear of being taken advantage of, and fear of it not even being acknowledged.
I came across something today that I think can really help in terms of detatchment.
This is written in terms of a chemical addict. However, if you apply this to your own unique sitution, you will see it can apply to anyone.
IMO the MLCer does act like an addict.....their high is the constant search for dopamine.
Almost like an addict looking for their next high.
This is what I found:
Thoughts on Detachment...........
Detachment is the gradual discovery of the truth about the family disease of chemical dependency.
It is the: process of learning to see things objectively learning to "unhook" yourself emotionally from the chemically dependent's system. learning at last to act in your own best interest - what's good for YOU, instead of constantly reacting to whatever the chemically dependent does. The result is a new, life-giving attitude.
Steps toward Detachment..........
1. Go find the experts. Make a commitment to Al-Anon. Get someone with experience and a positive, no-nonsense attitude as a sponsor. Go to an open A.A meeting. A.A. members are the experts on how chemical dependency feels FROM THE INSIDE. At these meetings pick up pamphlets and books. Get informed. Once you start educating yourself, you will begin to see that you are dealing not with a moral problem, but with a disease that has predictable symptoms, and that's a giant first step toward detachment.
2. Take an inventory. Start looking at his/her drinking/using objectively, and learn to spot the patterns. Document time, place, behavior: what you see, not what you interpret!
3. Report your findings. Find a receptive, knowledgeable listener - friend, sponsor, professional counselor. Your listener must be able to function as a calm, non-judgemental sounding board. Anyone who sees alcoholism (chemical dependency) as a moral issue won't do. Once you start dumping the garbage, you will begin to gain objectivity about your situation. You must stop being a secret and "protecting" your alcoholic. YOU ARE NOT THE CAUSE, and you no longer have to bear the burden of tying yourself in knots in order to "make" him/her stop drinking or using drugs.
4. Focus on Yourself. You may not be fully aware of the damage done to you. Start working on your own recovery. Don't hide the fact that you are attending Al-anon. Keep in touch with your sponsor. Work Al-anon's 12 steps. The steps will chip away at your denial and allow you to focus on yourself. Don't acknowledge a defect in yourself until you can balance it with an asset. Keep asking yourself: "What do I want?"
5. Discover Your Bottom Line. Don't rush it. This means making an honest, realistic determination of what you will no longer put up with and what you will do about it. Examine alternatives very carefully, and go over them at length with an experienced professional person or an Al-anon member. Think out possible bottom lines carefully, and don't use them to manipulate the alcoholic. They have to be designed for YOU. Above all, don't threaten anything you're not prepared to carry through! Consider bottom line for yourself. For example: "I will attend no fewer than 3 Al-anon meetings each week", "I will talk to someone in the program daily" or "I will remember to do something good for myself everyday." Start by considering a small one you know you can stick to rather than one you might have to back away from later.
6. Make a Decision. You are at least ready to declare: BEYOND THIS I WILL NOT GO, PERIOD! No one else, no matter how experienced or empathetic, can choose your bottom line for you. You're the one who must live with your decision.
7. Take Charge of your Life. Rather than saying: "How can I fix that?" ask yourself: "How do I choose to respond?" The more you take charge of your life, the more your self-esteem rises and the more willing you become to take responsible action and to accept the consequences of your decisions. You will begin to know when to act and, just as important, when NOT to act; when to confront and when to walk away. You will learn the distinction between "help" and "enabling." When the alcoholic behaves self-destructively, you no longer believe his/her rationalizations and excuses, because you see his/her illness for what it is. You will no longer feel enmeshed.
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I know this is a late response, but I did want to touch on this from my perspective:
Originally Posted By: Kimmerz
This is me just complaining here, but WHY OH WHY does he still continue to text me his days off when they never change?
When I don't repsond back unless I have info about the kids he needs to know?
And then when I do give him that info, he doesn't respond to me?
Except for the part about randomly contacting... I was going to say my W has stopped doing that, but that's not true... while it WAS news to me when she mentioned something by email to me, it very certainly would have become known to me with a 24 hour period...
Anyhow, I wanted to just let you know that, 2.5 years into my sitch, my W is still doing the above.
You've got great responses of course, you have a great crew of vets following you. Bea's response that her ex still does the same, 7 years later... speaks volumes... it's what they do...
Keep working on detaching from that. For me, it just sort of happened that I stopped thinking about it. So now, I can relate that this stuff DOES still happen... I just don't even realize it, until I actually think about it.
So like I said, just wanted to share another "been there, still there" piece.
I have some questions for anyone that would like to pitch in.
Has anyone ever had a problem saying acknowledging the fact they've been thanked by someone by not being able to say "your welcome", or "no problem", or "sure thing"?.
Issues have arisen with D9. XH has helped. I've thanked him several times. He won't acknowledge it. I've also asked him 2 times if he's got some CD's and our leaf blower and he's not given me a response about that, but will talk about D9.
He contacts me stating he doens't know what to do with D9 cause she's sick, and when I start talking to him about issues she has, he barely has a response and acts like he has no clue or interest in trying to work with me to problem solve.
Is this me having too many expectations? Or is this him not having any clue and not being able to articulate it? Or is this him being aloof, and superficially playing the part of a concerned parent, but really not that concerned? Passive aggressive? I dont see why he won't answer my question about those cd's and leaf blower? That's just stupid. Either he has it or he doesn't, what's the big deal with that?
Mature me needs to let this go. But stubborn me wants to say " hey I've asked you two times about those items. Do you have them or not?"
Kimmerz, I have had similiar incidents w/my xh. They won't acknowledge certain questions because they don't want you to know what they are doing or what they have in their possession, nor do they want to discuss the situation. They are very good at this. By admitting he has the items, it would make him feel guilty for taking them. He took them when he was in an "angry" stage and now he doesn't know how to say he has them and give them back to you. He knows that he took them and he's acing out like a bratty kid. Now that you've mentioned them, they just might show up one day when you least expect them and he'll pretend he never had them. Passive-aggressive behavior.
He's still very much in mlc and their brains can't take a lot of discussions or the written word. You have to be specific and to the point and then move on. They tune us out after a period of time.
Your expectations are too high. You are not dealing w/someone who is completely focused. You need to keep those expectations at zero at all times. I would not ask him again about the items because the more you ask, the more likely he will be to keep them and not tell you out of spite.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Agreed. I think Kimmerz, that you have highlighted how you are further along than he is. You seem to have a mindset of "hey, it happened. It's over. Time to get on with life." but he hasn't caught up. He may never catch up.
What you are saying is reasonable with anyone else, but not with him. That's where your expectations are out of whack.
Problem solve? Really? I mean, if that were possible then he wouldn't have left or felt like he "had to" or "couldn't do it anymore" as mine said on many occasions.
They can't be reasonable. That would be to admit "something" that they are not ready to admit.
He's a three-sided wheel when it comes to interacting with you, Kimmerz. No explanation, but that's how it is, at least for now.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Ok. This is also what I'm struggling with currently! Great advice everyone. My husband left 7 weeks ago, complete shock to me. Said he'd been unhappy for a long time, felt he loved me but wasn't "in love", etc.. He moved out that night (with a bag of a few essentials) and that was that. I've seen him twice since and spoken on the phone once the rest is always via email/text, but he will only respond when I initiate and he will respond to questions regarding bills, or whatever. At first he was really angry, blamed me for everything, said I'd been so controlling and manipulative, that he felt he'd had no choice in our entire relationship, said he'd been wanting to leave for a long time (what???), etc. In the last little while he's coming across as being fine, moved on, going surfing with the friends he's reacquainted with. When asked how he was doing he said 'good!'. Like I never existed. It's been 7 weeks! I'm devastated, beyond devastated. I can't stop crying. Can't stop missing him. We were together for 11 years! We were a great couple, always did things together but also had our separate interests, liked all the same music, etc. He wrote "I love you" in my bday card days before he left me. WTF.
Now he's having a grand old time living by himself, surfing with his buddies, completely neglecting me, the house, our dog, etc. Seems to have come out of his 'deep dark hole' (as he'd called it) quite nicely. It's so confusing.
nettieboop....and WELCOME TO MIDLIFE CRISIS. It's a script they all say, down to the word even intonation and pitch of their voice! Buckleup, it's a bumpy ride! Are you new to the boards?
Snodderly as always thanks for that reminder. I now see where my expectations always become unrealistic or too high with him. It's not long after he starts to act semi normal again, I get my hopes up that this insanity can be put behind us and we can at least start a better relationship, at least as far as the kids are concerned.
AJM, yes I still try and think of him as rational, then question why he acts irrational. Yes that's exactly how Im feeling and where Im at now. Its done, we're divorced, you got what you wanted, we have two kids, time to move forwards. I find it odd how he's been so selective with me over certain subjects, yet at times like nothing ever happened and being as friendly as ever.
Sometimes I've wondered if he's angry with me for keeping my head held high and moving foward with my life. As horribly down and out as I felt and was, I do think I gave the impression to him that I was JUST FINE without him, and was moving forward, period. Im financially better off than he is, keeping my house running, raising the girls, and working full time. He see's this and I think he hates it. I sometimes wonder if he really wanted to ruin me.
Im kinda thinking he got the hint....you stay on your side of the fence and I stay on mine by me firmly defending my boundaries and not backing down to his twisted manipultions. Lets stick to business and not get into anything more than necessary, but it's ok to be a little friendly every now and then.
What's comical is I told him that if he had thrown the CD's away, boxed them up, or even broke them cause they were mine....no worries! I just want to know if Im getting them back or not so I don't have to go buy new ones or download them on itunes! See there, I told him it was OK IF HE DAMAGED THEM, THREW THEM AWAY OR LOST THEM... JUST TELL ME IF YOU HAVE THEM OR NOT. However that's very typical of him. He's very passive aggressive. I've also seen serious pursuer/distancer with him. I feel like he distances himself so far, and will only talk to me just so much before he just cuts me off again. This too happened in our marriage. Because of that, Im happy for the divorce. But it is still frustrating if you need to talk about your kids. I finally feel like we're parenting and he literally shuts down in the middle of the conversation. Done.
Well just proof of how crazy this is. They're pissed at you for all their misery in life. So you give them the big D! They get to go fornacating into the wild blue Yonder with OM/OW, blow an insane amount of money, still get to see the kids even though it's painful for them, and leave everyone heartbroken. Yet you go through the pain, and healing, come out the other side of this more intact and soldified than ever, work on being nice, AND THEY STILL HATE YOU
Sometimes I've wondered if he's angry with me for keeping my head held high and moving foward with my life. As horribly down and out as I felt and was, I do think I gave the impression to him that I was JUST FINE without him, and was moving forward, period. Im financially better off than he is, keeping my house running, raising the girls, and working full time. He see's this and I think he hates it. I sometimes wonder if he really wanted to ruin me.
I could have just about written that. I felt/feel like mine tried very hard to erradicate me and then replace. That started early and gained a full head of steam along the way. Seriously, I was concerned for my physical safety for a while. Not losing sleep over it, but concerned when she more than once tried to instigate fights between me and OM's. But I see it as them trying to be angry at me. I see it as her trying very hard and when one thing does not work, or the story doesn't "fit" she'll try another. Trying to put me in a bucket so to speak. Labeling.
Then I stop and think, "don't we all do that" to some degree? i.e. "x is crazy, narcissistic, etc"??
When I put the whole picture back together, I realized that what I see on these boards, what my IC originally told me, and what I've felt for a while, is that we are ahead in the grieving, the growing, and the learning. We're seeing them trying to follow, and often falling off of, the trail.
Words are one thing. Actions are also separate. Actually doing something is very different. I can say I'm done. I can say I hate you. But to actually be there and feel that is a much bigger endeavour and takes some work regardless of the side you are on.
I can guess. I think the hatred is a bucket of hatred that needed somewhere to go. We're it.
Will they ever get past that? Nobody knows. But unless and until then, dealing with them is a ridiculous waste of time if we try to be rational with them the same way we would with anyone else. Every time they deal with us, they have to face a little bit of "that time period" and feelings bucket. I cannot think why they would want to do that with an irrational brain; if we are the horrible people they say, then why talk to you? If you are fine and happy without them, then I may have been the one with the problem - why talk to you? Rinse. Repeat.
This is their issue. We can't really influence things in the current time frame. But being nice and respectful toward them has a few benefits: we have a clear conscience, we put things in their world for the future should that happen, and it helps us to detach while we learn to be ourselves without them. I never see a time when I should treat somebody poorly. Always act with compassion even if the act is to defend a boundary.
So what to do? I say learn to be ourselves, learn to be happy without them, grieve the loss, get over the shock and keep stepping forward. Recognize the time you spend that is worthwhile and the time that is just wasted. Can't get it back later, so spend it wisely right?
Let them hate. Let them figure things out. Let them go in peace and we'll do the same - with or without their help and along the way we'll try to protect the kids and work toward the best possible outcome for ourselves and the kids. The MLC'r is on their own as they asked.
Peace,
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
