Keep breathing...

[Denver_2010]

Your expectations are way out of whack LA. I get it. But I keep telling you, this is going to take TIME. Lots of it.

CONSISTENT CHANGES + SUFFICIENT TIME = CHANGE HE CAN TRUST

Of course he can't trust anything right now. That is NORMAL. And you can't go a day without getting into these conversations with him. To me, it would come across as extremely pressuring... almost nagging. Neither are helpful to your cause.

You are constantly disappointed because you seem to think that he is a light switch. That he can just turn back on his loving feelings for you. It simply does not work like that. TIME! PATIENCE!

Again, my advice to you is to plan the next 90 days. Be kind to him. Loving as much as he will let you. Let go of the expectations during that time. Stop being disappointed when he does not reciprocate or react like you want him to. Just stop. Let what you need, and deserve, in this marriage go... for NOW. This does not need to be solved overnight.

Just let go ... for 90 days... a blip in the span of your marriage ... reassess after Christmas.

[mamabird]

You're right Denver. I am a complete mess. Just got frustrated and a little panicked and scared. I feel like we're making real progress... then I feel like we're not. I'm all prepared to give him his space and I guess I'm not really doing that. What happens is, we start talking about something logistical, like this party on Saturday that we were supposed to go to, and it turns into an R discussion.

You say be loving as much as he will let you - so I was trying to accomplish that by snuggling with him in bed because physical touch is his LL. When he said he didn't like that I kind of snapped because I felt helpless then. How do I show him love now?

And when I was trying to be kind to him and sensitive to his needs about this party on Saturday night, he saw it as manipulative, because of the way I said it. We actually did have a good conversation about that that ended up being constructive even though that wasn't his intent. We have such major communication issues.

I'm not good at letting things drop if I don't feel they are finished. We talked a lot tonight, and actually ended up addressing a recent episode where he was name calling and taking me down. I told him that when he calls me names like that it really eats away at me.

After we finally finished this conversation, I washed the dishes and got ready for bed and was still so sad. I asked him if I could touch him because it makes me feel connected again after a fight (even though this was more of an emotional discussion). I thought he was going to say no but he said yes and we ended up ML at his initiation. He has not initiated for a while, but I think the 20 minute snuggle this morning got him going, plus it's been over 2 weeks. Nevertheless, I was surprised by that, especially after he said, "Don't come into my bed." I guess it all has to be on his terms. It felt a little like make up sex to me. Maybe he doesn't like feeling so disconnected either.

One other thing he said during this conversation was, "I'm still your H, until I'm not anymore, and until then you need to honor that." I think maybe he was referring to something that happened in the past but it was so out of left field. Not 15 minutes earlier he said it might be good if I dated other people.

Anyway, yes, I will give him all the time he needs and try to avoid the R conversations...

[Breakdown]

I really think patience is the hardest thing thru this whole process. When we decide to change, we want it to ripple thru everything and everyone immediately. We want results now damn it! But it doesn't work like that....it takes a lot of time.

My W said my changes were to try to save the M, repeatedly, for a long long time. I bet it was 6 months before she even started to consider the fact that they might be real. It was probably 12 months before she started referring to me in the terms "new me" and "old me." Your H might need more time, he might need less, but if it's less, I seriously doubt it will be much less.

On the flip flop, clearly he is confused. He's hurt, he's scared, he's lost. One minute he may latch on to you and the next he may lash out at you. Thru all of it, try to be patient and understanding.

Hang in there...be strong, keep doing what works, and when something doesn't, make a note of it and stop doing it.

[Denver_2010]

My W said my changes were to try to save the M, repeatedly, for a long long time. I bet it was 6 months before she even started to consider the fact that they might be real. It was probably 12 months before she started referring to me in the terms "new me" and "old me." Your H might need more time, he might need less, but if it's less, I seriously doubt it will be much less.

Same here ^^^ ... exactly

[mamabird]

I'm hearing the same thing... No trust in the changes.

I think if I can force myself to focus on making the changes and not so much on H or what he thinks or the M, I might be in better mental shape.

That's the hard part of course... That and balancing giving him space vs giving him love. I've got to learn to back off and let him come to me.

[Denver_2010]

YUP ^^^

[mamabird]

Another update now. Just got an email from H:

"I got the names of a couple of therapists. I'd like to schedule an initial meeting. I think these sessions will help us get to understand each other better. By that I mean however this works out - D or R - it is better to move forward with as much common understanding as possible."

This seems like a really positive step. I have to say this is the first time he has seemed to consider R as a possibility. I guess all that crying had some sort of effect on him, because for the last 4 months all he's been saying is that D is the only option.

[Breakdown]

That is really positive.

With regards to the MCs, make sure you do your homework on them before picking one. There's some good advice in DR on selecting one, but at a minimum, make sure they are pro-marriage.

My W went to two separate IC and we went to one MC....all a waste of time in my opinion. Not a single positive thing came out of them as far as I'm aware. That's one of the reasons I like retrouvaille so much....it's designed to help you fix your M, not let you vent or dig up your childhood or learn to co-parent. Choose wisely!

[bustingout]

That does seem positive! Take it slowly...

[mamabird]

Breakdown, can you recommend some books for me? I've gotten the 5LL, what else do you think would be helpful?