3 years aftet D-Day and i finally registet

[Am I Too Late]

Question?

She is supposed to stop by the house tonight to visit our son.

Do i tell her she looks pretty or some other such compliment?

At what point do i ever broach the subject about going back to marriage counseling or a seminar retreat such as Retrovaille?

Or, just be a good parent trying to encourage proper co-parenting?

After all, i do believe she is seeing someone else regularly now.

Do i ever ask about her other relationship?

Ed

[25yearsmlc]

Question?

She is supposed to stop by the house tonight to visit our son.

Do i tell her she looks pretty or some other such compliment?

If there is some obvious change, like a new haircut, you MIGHT say something. But I'd be reticent. I would NOT go overboard. Also I do not know her love language. If it is words of affirmation, go ahead and say ONE compliment but it must be genuine. Nothing fake.

It must be subtle enough that it does not come off as pursuit AND you must NOT expect anything in return. IF this is behavior she needed from you but did not get, it will take a long time before she believes it's real. The more you expect to get something from it, the more "tactical" it will look and the less sincere or lasting or real.



At what point do i ever broach the subject about going back to marriage counseling or a seminar retreat such as Retrovaille?

You do not. SHE must. Why? B/C she's actively dating OM.

There's not much to discuss in mc, if there's a third party in the marriage.



Or, just be a good parent trying to encourage proper co-parenting?


YES^^^...and a happy upbeat person with a lot of FUN EXCITING things to do in your life. Be busy, for real. We hammer the GAL, b/c we know it helps. A lot...

After all, i do believe she is seeing someone else regularly now.

you "believe" or you "know"? There's a big difference. But either way, do not pursue her at this time.

The one thing that's NOT typical of a WAW in your sitch, is that she has left you AND her only child. That's odd.

That's more about HER than the marriage. So work on you but back off. We have to hope she gets the help she needs. She KNOWS HOW to get help, doesn't she?

I mean, she's been to AA and it helped her. So she knows resources exist.

Do i ever ask about her other relationship?

Ed

you only ask if SHE asks about working on the r. Then you ask "but is there OM? B/C if there is, we can't really do much mc..."

AND

re: Retrovaille - the folks there won't have you attend if another party is in the marriage. They interview you first on the phone, separately to make sure you each have the right mindset. No other parties in the m, is part of that mindset.

Hope this helps.

[AnotherStander]

Do i tell her she looks pretty or some other such compliment?

Sure, if you mean it. Have you read DB and DR? If so, what are your 180's? If you've neglected to tell her how nice she looks, etc. over the years, then doing so now is a 180 for you and you should do it. Absolutely no "I love you" though. That's pressure, because she doesn't love you (or thinks she doesn't), so when you tell her that it is in contrast to what she feels and she will perceive it as pressure.

At what point do i ever broach the subject about going back to marriage counseling or a seminar retreat such as Retrovaille?

As 25 said, only if she brings it up first. Do not initiate any relationship, divorce, or separation talks. Keep everything light and fluffy. Be her best friend. Listen to her, don't talk much. When you do talk, do not make it about you. Do not argue or disagree with anything she says. Validate her emotions. Make lots of eye contact. Lean forward like you're really listening intently. Review the 34 DB 180 tips before she comes over and repeat them in your head while conversing with her. Stick to the game plan.

Do i ever ask about her other relationship?

Not for now. It's way too early for that.

[Am I Too Late]

Thank you 25.

Im working on the GAL.

I am taking 2 of my Harleys to put them up for sale later today to try to whittle down my debt.

I always complimented my wife on everything about her and her appearance on most every day.

It wasnt until after her mom died that my compliments were not appreciated, but i attributed it to her grief and depression. Then at the end of September, 2009 is when i found the love notes about her 1sr affair.

At that time, when i gave hers compliments, she was put off by them and said i just said those things because i wanted s e x.

Well obviously in hindsight that reaction was because she thought she was in love with that other guy.

Ed

[Am I Too Late]

She had her lawyer file for divorce this past January 6th of this year, but i have not been served the papers yet. And yes, for certain the divorce was filed

Ed

[25yearsmlc]

Thank you 25.

Im working on the GAL.

I am taking 2 of my Harleys to put them up for sale later today to try to whittle down my debt.

I always complimented my wife on everything about her and her appearance on most every day.

really? "always, on everything, most every day"....?? Did she believe it? Regardless, if you "always did it on everything most every day," Then I guess it's not a 180 is it?

Hey, I don't want to bash you here, but the way you talk sometimes is so over the top, that it sounds defensive. I'm not sure you are ready to look at yourself and make some changes for real....are you?

It wasnt until after her mom died that my compliments were not appreciated, but i attributed it to her grief and depression.

how do you know she did not appreciate them?

And did you have ulterior motives? Did the compliments preceed you initiating sex? Think about it.


Then at the end of September, 2009 is when i found the love notes about her 1sr affair.

At that time, when i gave hers compliments, she was put off by them and said i just said those things because i wanted s e x.


There is some mind reading going on ^^^here when you say she was put off. How do you KNOW that? And may I assume she SAID that you were only interested in sex.

Well, was that true? Even partly? Why would she SAY that?

And don't write off whatever she said in the past and blame it ALL on the OM.

That makes you blameless AND powerless to do a thing and means you were the perfect h and nothing can be done to change or help the sitch.

Do you want to believe that??^^^

When our mc told my h and I that my h was "being selfish" and "acting like a single man", I felt vindicated at first.

I felt it meant I was "right!!"...but so what? The mc gave me nothing to DO about it. Being right but powerless, isn't so great.

Being right was not as important as being able to affect my sitch...


Well obviously in hindsight that reaction was because she thought she was in love with that other guy.

Ed

Sooo YOU need do nothing different? Is that your point?

That isn't really going to help you. Your m MIGHT be over. At least the old one is.

But you need to figure out - specifically -

where YOU made some mistakes and where YOU WANT to make changes in you.

I have not heard much about that, other than saying you had a thought disorder that cost you financially a lot. But in a way that makes it her fault too.

AND that means you are powerless b/c YOU didn't cause it....the problem with avoiding responsibility is that it means you can't/won't change since you don't see your own role...

so how can she (or anyone) think you'd behave differently if the same thing happened again?

I mean, if bad things happen, and they will, are you going to stare at the problem immobilized, again? Will you lose another business and who will watch your son if you're paralyzed by fear or panic or feeling hurt?

Trust me, I HAVE BEEN THERE but b/c of my kids, I realized I needed help b/c my pain and anger kept me from being present for them. Not good. They already lost one parent, I needed to compensate for that, not desert them b/c I was in pain too.

So I got professional help. Have you sought it out? There's NO shame in it and it sure beats losing all your savings and a business collapsing and losing a home AND possibly neglecting a child...

So, from now on, how will you cope or face stressors in a new way?

What will you DO differently?

She won't come back if she does not believe marriage to you, can be better or different.

I know she needs help b/c she has her issues for sure. I get that.

But it does not change that statement about her needing to believe marriage to you - can be better and different for her to return...

So how are YOU showing that? And that does NOT mean for you to pursue her.

I just want to hear what changes you want to make, in you. FOR YOU and your son.

[Am I Too Late]

According to a comment on her brothers facebook, he mentioned that she was working for her boyfriend during this past summer, when she was off from her school bus driving job.

Ed

[Am I Too Late]

I will answer all the questions later when i can use a computer at the library because the cell phone screen is too small.

[Am I Too Late]

N

Thank you 25.

Im working on the GAL.

I am taking 2 of my Harleys to put them up for sale later today to try to whittle down my debt.

I always complimented my wife on everything about her and her appearance on most every day.

really? "always, on everything, most every day"....?? Did she believe it? Regardless, if you "always did it on everything most every day," Then I guess it's not a 180 is it?

Hey, I don't want to bash you here, but the way you talk sometimes is so over the top, that it sounds defensive. I'm not sure you are ready to look at yourself and make some changes for real....are you?

It wasnt until after her mom died that my compliments were not appreciated, but i attributed it to her grief and depression.

how do you know she did not appreciate themes?

And did you have ulterior motives? Did the compliments preceed you initiating sex? Think about it.


Then at the end of September, 2009 is when i found the love notes about her 1sr affair.

At that time, when i gave hers compliments, she was put off by them and said i just said those things because i wanted s e x.


There is some mind reading going on ^^^here when you say she was put off. How do you KNOW that? And may I assume she SAID that you were only interested in sex.

Well, was that true? Even partly? Why would she SAY that?

And don't write off whatever she said in the past and blame it ALL on the OM.

That makes you blameless AND powerless to do a thing and means you were the perfect h and nothing can be done to change or help the sitch.

Do you want to believe that??^^^

When our mc told my h and I that my h was "being selfish" and "acting like a single man", I felt vindicated at first.

I felt it meant I was "right!!"...but so what? The mc gave me nothing to DO about it. Being right but powerless, isn't so great.

Being right was not as important as being able to affect my sitch...


Well obviously in hindsight that reaction was because she thought she was in love with that other guy.

Ed

Sooo YOU need do nothing different? Is that your point?

That isn't really going to help you. Your m MIGHT be over. At least the old one is.

But you need to figure out - specifically -

where YOU made some mistakes and where YOU WANT to make changes in you.

I have not heard much about that, other than saying you had a thought disorder that cost you financially a lot. But in a way that makes it her fault too.

AND that means you are powerless b/c YOU didn't cause it....the problem with avoiding responsibility is that it means you can't/won't change since you don't see your own role...

so how can she (or anyone) think you'd behave differently if the same thing happened again?

I mean, if bad things happen, and they will, are you going to stare at the problem immobilized, again? Will you lose another business and who will watch your son if you're paralyzed by fear or panic or feeling hurt?

Trust me, I HAVE BEEN THERE but b/c of my kids, I realized I needed help b/c my pain and anger kept me from being present for them. Not good. They already lost one parent, I needed to compensate for that, not desert them b/c I was in pain too.

So I got professional help. Have you sought it out? There's NO shame in it and it sure beats losing all your savings and a business collapsing and losing a home AND possibly neglecting a child...

So, from now on, how will you cope or face stressors in a new way?

What will you DO differently?

She won't come back if she does not believe marriage to you, can be better or different.

I know she needs help b/c she has her issues for sure. I get that.

But it does not change that
statement about her needing to believe marriage to you - can be better and different for her to return...your

So how are YOU showing that? And that does NOT mean for you to pursue her.

I just want to hear what changes you want to make, in you. FOR YOU and your son.

I have to only use a computer at the library because my phone screen cant display your entire posted reply and questions.

Lets start 1 at a time. Did i compliment her and tell her i love her every day. Emphatically yes, but maybe in a rote manner in hindsight.

Maybe it would be more helpful to state what she pointed out in our post Labor Day, 2009 heated discussion, which de-escalated after i heard her out.

She said i dropped her on the face of the earth and was not there for her while her mom was sick from 2 days after Thanksgiving 2008 until she passed away on February 7th, 2009.

I agree with her perception. nigjtI have Excuses, but i dropped the ball big time due to some petty resentments i allowed to build up. I had selfishly continued with my work and spent nights getting my website developer to get my site finished because it had been over 1 year in the making and i put too much time into it. I was also partnered with another guy who had the technical expertice where i had the developmental creativity to found a homeowner to contractor internet alliance.

I would be home for a regular night one night and then spend the next one staying at my office till extremely late times.

I should have put that all on hold when my wife needed support. I die in regret every single day for not seeing the bigger and more important picture.

After that disclosure, i hated myself and my business and changed my work habits. That lasted for 3 weeks until i discovered her love notes and affair. I blamed myself for pushing my sweetheart away from me. Up to that point i was stilformsl working a normal schedule without staying late.

Big deal. After that discovery, i went into shock and depression. I researched too much about everything.

The 1st book i bought was Divorce Remedy due to MWD article on the WAW Syndrome. I took some of the advice, but couldnt latch onto the various detachment suggesstions.

I continued to pursue in many shapes and forms even though it didnt seem like it to me at the time. Well, many times it did, but it seemed like the right thing to do at the time.

She also did not like the way i complained about various messes she left laying around. Since then, i dont give a darn about getting a new cup for anothrr coffee instead of re-using the one she just got done with. Thats not worth getting aggravated about. I used to ssy ignorant remarks like all that stuff laying around was unsanitary.

I have cleaned up any messes left laying around ever since then without it disturbing me. I gladly do it.

Whenever i did get back involved in going to work, it seemed as if her continuous secret cell phone and continuous texting to who knows who created more anxiety issues with e and further lack of concentration trying to go to work.

I have not been completely out of work, but it became very sporadic.

What i now am doing is getting my business licensed again and will put in my best efforts.

Since i cant read the rest of your questions right now, let me describe todays communications.

She couldnt see our son yesterday because she wanted to arrive sooner than we got home.

So, tonight our sons school is having a movie and popcorn. I just got reminded about it this morning. I invited her to show up so she could spend time with our son.

She said she already had plans. She is going to a friends house to watch a movie. This friend is dealing with some relationship problems with her boyfrienf from the past 6 years, so she wants to be there for her. She later added on that this friend has been instrumental in her finding a willingness to think about God. Also, that she has been helping her to find the real person she used to be, so, sort of like finding herself.

I complimented her on her compassion and thoughtfulness and said that was always one of her best qualities. That wasnt my initial reaction, but i got past the feeling that some new friend was more important than her own son.

I will respond to other questions you posted later. I have been missing the school movie i am at with my boy.

Thsnk You,

Ed

[Am I Too Late]

CODid i answer the Compliments thoroughly enough?

Did i always or even usually desire s e x after those compliments?

No i did not. I am by nature a more cuddling and hugging type of affectionate person. I understood that she had, during our 1st 8 years together, a lower s e x drive. She did not like during night s e x or wake up sex, just before going to sleep s e x. That frustrated me bit o figured that was just the way it was. I did feel rejected though sometimes.

I absolutely never forgot a hallmark day or a special event day. 3 months after her mom died, i kidded her about her getting a happy birthday card from my insurance agency and said i was glad they went a reminder. In reality, i had already picked out some nice jewelry for her. I found out months later that she was pizzed off because she thought i did forget. She did get her gifts and card with sentimental writing on time, but held onto believing i forgot.

I usually over shop for multiple gifts when i have a tough choice.

I did not Expect s e x as my reward. I just wanted to know she liked what i got her.

Sometimes, i think she felt like she didnt get me enough compared to what i got her i read months later. I didnt ever complain because i liked what she got me and i mostly like that she remembered. The best gifts to me in my opinion are a card with personal writings included in it.

We had different sleep schedules and i went to bed later than her or many times because i fell asleep in the recliner chair. I have since thrown that away, partially due to some damage and because of what it represented to me for allowing me to miss going to bed with her. I also used to complain to her, that she should have woken me up to go to be in bed. As if that was her fault, ..... What an Azz i was being.

Okay, thats an hour of typing on my cell phone.

I have something she said to me earlier today that i am not sure how to interpret, but i will get to that later, as well as the next question.

Ed