I don't know - I think I don't even really know what a real marriage looks like ... I compare us a lot ... I never had good relationships. I never saw them modeled. I look at them now but who knows if what I observe about others is really the real story. Y'know?
A year ago I would have proudly described my own marriage to you to let you know what the perfect marriage is all about. We each had our individual lives and separate interests but came together as a couple enough to keep the flame going, we were both very active with our kids never missing a single concert, game, performance, meet-the-teacher, etc. We planned vacations together. We maintained separate bank accounts but worked out the family finances together. We worked hard to pay off our house and cars and eliminated all debt. We established retirement investments and college investments and had the future financially worked out. We were on track to retire in less than 10 years to a confortable life. we had abundant respect for each other and love for each other. And we had a fantastic sex life. Sounds great, right? Apparently it wasn't enough for W, she recently decided she isn't happy, I'm the reason why, and now she needs to go find happiness like it's some rock sitting on the ground waiting to be discovered and picked up. Meanwhile a very dear friend of mine is the exact same age as my W. She divorced her physically abusive husband years ago and has struggled to raise her 4 children my maintaining up to 4 jobs at a time. Her oldest daughter moved out of state and had to ride the bus to work in freezing weather, so my friend finally drove her own car up to her daughter, came back and rode a bicycle every day to work herself. She has nearly nothing and has sacrificed what little she has for her kids. And get this, she's one of the happiest people I know. Happiness comes from within. We each control our own happiness, and if we're not happy we have no one to blame but ourselves. I hope my W figures this out sooner rather than later. So what is the perfect marriage? That's up to you. No two marriages are alike and what works for one couple if poison for another. Don't worry about how you compare, just concern yourself with what it takes for you to be happy.
Oh yeah, starsky - no that wasn't us - but geez - bless that couple.
So sorry, ESN -- I confused you with another poster. In an effort to go back and get some back-history on your sitch, I took a thread that you posted on frequently and assumed that was YOUR thread. Mea culpa!!
Still, KD's "take it slow" is hardly ever the wrong approach.
Thanks, AS. I haven't told many friends or family b/c I know what I'll get. But the one friend I did tell is all concerned about me, and thinking I'm doing this b/c I'm tired of the dating scene, desperate, etc.
That's not true. I mean, yeah, this isn't fun being a single parent. I don't know if I could do what that friend of yours is doing. But I'm certainly not "Desperate" -
Would I like to be with the father of my child? Spend more time as a family? Me spend more time with my daughter? Pay off my debt finally? Move out of this apartment? Get married? Sure - but people act like that doesn't count - that shouldn't be why you do this. Why the heck else would I?
I mean, why do people get married in the first place? There are benefits - financial, emotional, etc. Why can't the same rules apply to me?
I was up a lot last night, and I got to thinking, I think he and I are better in a context. When we're a family and working together, and raising our kid, and having lives, it makes sense. It's like right now we're trying to ignore all that to see what it's like to be together, but that's not realistic. We have a daughter who needs us, I have bills to pay, we both have hectic schedules.
I do have HUGE concerns. I found out last night he never did do IC this past year, but he has someone now he's going to go to.
He thinks he was like the greatest dad over the last year, and I think he sucked. I don't ever seen him doing anything "above and beyond" just the bare minimum, and I hate that. I absolutely hate that about him.
I feel like he acts like a teenager - I can't explain that, but he has this walk, and the way he talks sometimes, and that damn pink car he drives. Drives me nuts.
We also have very different love languages (but we're both willing to see each other's).
But then, it's like, should I let those things drive me away from him?
Yes, I always imagined myself with a mature older man who was a MAN - polite, a gentleman, confident, providing. Loving me.
But where is that guy? I've been on the personals a year now and all the older men I've met are not my thing. In fact, I want another child, and so I don't want a 50-year-old in the end. The younger guys weren't great either. I never found a good match. And I didn't all the years before that. So what am I still holding out for?
My friend said, "I just worry that you're giving up and not going to hold out for the right man for you." And it's like WHO IS THE RIGHT MAN FOR ME??? Do you know him? I mean, yeah, it's conceivable that I can meet Mr. Right For Me in another year if I'd just - I don't know - be patient. Hold out. Wait. Throw out what's in front of me. For someone I don't even know yet.
And then my friend said "I just want you to have the happiness you deserve" What does that mean? A guy is going to do that?
Maybe; maybe I'm screwing it all up and by being back together with EXBF, I'm missing out on the opportunity of a lifetime by sabotaging my own happiness and not meeting Mr. Right For Me. But, people. I'm 40. I want another kid. I want my daughter to have parents that are together. I want to be a person whose happiness isn't dependent on who she is with necessarily.
I don't know. I'm just tired of a culture that make such a huge deal about happiness found in who you're with. Maybe I'm just making excuses for being with a potentially lousy partner, IDK.
AS, I know what you mean about not comparing - except, this is really helpful to me.
I have a lot of crap around relationships and I'm trying to heal but it's like when I had a severe eating disorder, and as I was healing, I literally followed my mother around and watch what she ate - I had to relearn to feed myself basically.
I know everyone wants "the best for me" but I look at other relationships and most people I know are divorced, remarried and repeating, or on the rocks... why should my EXBF be held to these criteria that I don't even see anyone else who is married doing. SO that's why I'm asking what's realistic?
Like do people with good working marriages mess up and fail and do it again? Do they try? Do they grow? Do they lose respect over some things and maybe regain it? Do they get super annoyed and find annoying traits in the other person? Do they argue and then later apologize, try to learn new skills? IDK. If so, then maybe we have a chance. Otherwise, I might be holding too high a standard and possibly turning my back on a potentially really good thing.
That makes sense. GM. I do love him, and I do (mostly) respect him. And I like that there's a real willingness and that's hes read a lot and understands a lot more about what happened.
I don't know - I think I don't even really know what a real marriage looks like ... I compare us a lot ... I never had good relationships. I never saw them modeled. I look at them now but who knows if what I observe about others is really the real story. Y'know? A suggestion I heard once was to "envision & ask for what YOU need to have, at a comfortable minimum, and envision what you'd love to have in an ideal world. Be prepared to negotiate the difference", and go from there.
None of us know what's really inside another's marriage. It's not knowable from the outside. We cannot know what a great marriage looks like, from the inside, unless we are inside it, or had it and then lost it.
I'd love to know what real marriages look like b/c sometimes I think I'm so hard on him and I - and other times I think I'm too forgiving.
You ask am I in love with him? I was - for years. But despite that, I also give my love away to people who don't and haven't treated me well. So I don't know. that ^^^answer isn't really applicable to him now, you know? It's about you, & your fears.
And this past year. My fear is that while it's not immediately nagging at me now, it will. So your FEAR (buzz word!!) is that in the future, you will...what? NOT love him? ESN, That always exist as a possibility.
Don't forget that love is, at least partly, a choice we must make on a daily basis. IT's a brave choice too.
You have some control & responsibility in this arena. You will CHOOSE to love your d, even when she has a tantrum, correct? So choose to love whomever you are in a committed r with.
We are not always lovable but we still need and want love AND we hope our committed r's yield that for us.
Similarly, Our spouses have days when they are not so lovable. But we CHOOSE to love, anyhow...just as our Creator loves us no matter what. (Though We are not divine, we can try to follow the example, eh?)
Like I lost respect for him. For a man who would leave his family Then forgiveness is your task. I think seeing the r history through his eyes will help you in that.
I doubt very much he sees himself as a man "who would leave his family", and from how you described things back then, (i.e., "toxic & destructive"), he may have done the best thing for all of you. But hey, I don't know the guy.
... even though he showed up for our daughter and wanted more time with her - that's^^^^ a great thing
then I think - well I can't love a man who would try to take his daughter from her momma. so there's no way for him to win on this, is there? Do you see how it's a no win for him the way you structured it?
1) If he wants to see his d, he's "trying to take his d away from her momma" BUT
2) if he does NOT make an effort to see his d, he's a deadbeat dad who shirks.
Try to see this^^^ or you may get stuck in anger you feel b/c he wanted out of the r with you, not her. So laying it all on him as a character flaw either way, does let you off the hook. Not so fair.
And now he's probing the possibility of things BETWEEN YOU TWO getting better, but you are making his fathering efforts, about him being a bad guy, no matter what--
So I'd ask you this, Are you setting him up for failure (see the 'no win' way^^^)
to confirm your fears about him, so you can avoid risking too much?
Do you see any validity to that?
Then I think he doesn't see our basic needs, even though he asked me to spell them out tonight, and I did ... lousily, and he listened. And said "What can I do."
Hey, He's not a mind reader BUT he asked you THE question so he could know the answer...
and then you "lousily" answered???
so I assume some sarcasm or anger came out OR
vagueness b/c maybe you don't know the basic needs?? Whatever,
either way, it bugged you and it showed, right? So there are some behaviors that are the same coming from you towards him.
I don't know enough to recognize anything new from him but he did something few men who are in defense mode would do, which is that he still listened to you even after you gave the "answer, lousily",
and then he gave what sounds like the best answer, "What can I do?" To ME, sounds like The guy is trying. I'd give that response an "A+".
Is it possible you are just going thru the motions of "trying",
but the reality is,
you are making it SO hard for him b/c either,
you are "that way with men right now"
OR
b/c you don't really want to be with him?
How'd your prior r's end with the guys you dated?
I think my love is a little pulled back right now. I'm numb.
Take it slowly...make sure you have some tools and you'll know that when you see conflicts being resolves, grudges get let go (and not picked back up!)
and by small but consistently different behaviors on his and YOUR end.
(I say that b/c this is NOT ALL about HIS WORK or changes, right?)
You say you've grown and learned a lot. I believe you. So, Let's see that knowledge now implemented into new behaviors, okay?
BTW How are your other r's doing now, with family and friends?
Bottom line is, IF whatever you've learned does not change how you react with HIM, then it's for nought, as it relates to this r.
Maybe it's a lack of forgiveness thing (forgiveness is absolutely a learned skill and if you did not see it growing up, you have to learn how to do it)
OR maybe you're just not right for each other and the purpose of your r, was to produce a lovely new being.
And if that's so, you can say "mission accomplished" and co-parent as best you can.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
To be together for the logistics of an intact family does not make for a long lasting relationship. And is not what a real marriage looks like. There has to be a real love and respect.
you have to be good AS A COUPLE without children, (as if your d did not exist)
to be a good MARRIED COUPLE, raising children and handling the curve balls life WILL throw at you, year after year.
I have serious doubts about your readiness for this r, regardless of his efforts
Have you spoken with your IC about your expectations of him, and of yourself?
Do you have specific expectations of how you'd like YOU to behave,
and how you'd like things from him or any other man?
Sounds like something to really figure out BEFORE another child comes around, and before you set yourself up - OR HIM-, for getting hurt and then having your d even more confused than before.
I'm with GM as far as him putting her to bed and taking her overnight. it's More than most guys who never married someone, did. But that's about his fathering...
And that's the other thing, IF- IF
IF you do reconcile, are you going to get married?-- which I advise YOU NOT bring up anytime soon...
OR
Have you let go of that as a goal? As I recall, you felt VERY vulnerable when the r went down the drain and you have little legal protection other than CS.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
GM, my brain has a lot of negativity floating around from back then and this past year. If I let it, it'll keep finding "evidence" of why he's a jerk. But if I really look at it -
He paid quite a bit of money each month so our daughter can be home with me and a sitter. He didn't take me to court or push for more time He gave me the higher end of child support. He showed up pretty much every single time (mostly) on time for a year.
There was a few times he bought flowers and had our daughter give them to me. He recently thanked me for doing what I did this past year. He told me I'm an amazing woman.
Last night, he asked what I needed, he agreed if I want to be a SAHM again (and I don't actually, but do want more time with our D since I've been working so much this past year and she needs me).
So I'd ask you this, Are you setting him up for failure (see the 'no win' way^^^)
to confirm your fears about him, so you can avoid risking too much?
Yes Yes Yes.
In fact this hasn't changed - it was there before and he left. And it's here again, and I know I need to change it. Even if my therapist thinks he a narcissist, my friends and family don't like him now, etc. etc. If I can show up differently in the R, maybe he can too.
Other relationships ended badly - done. No more talking. Etc.
Currently with family IDK just much better boundaries, distance, not relying on them - all is "well" there.
