Thanks Labug I know I can only sort me out its just hard to not think about my marital situation. So thinking of me, I'm going to carry on going to the gym, make arrangements to do things w friends, keep busy & NOT contact H - it doesn't do me any good when I do.
I'm just scared we'll never talk this out one way or another.
I'm going to write some more about how trapped in the situation I am & how he is able to control the show.
He's on a military base so I can't turn up at his door. There's a gatehouse (he says he feels safe there knowing no one can get to him). If I turn up they will call the barracks & say he has a visitor & my name. He chooses to let me in or not. I haven't tried this but threatened to one day when he wouldn't answer his phone & he said he'd never talk to me again if I did. I told him I was getting in my car. He called me straightaway.
He doesn't answer his phone unless he wants to.
He doesn't answer emails or txts unless he wants to
It's like it's all on his terms. Tho looking back on our relationship before he moved out a lot of stuff was on my terms but I've worked on that these past two years. I've asked his views, validated etc.
It really angers me that we can't just talk this out. Agree to separate or work on us & move this crappy situation forward. I'm bored w it & so confused w his mxd messages. Tho have to admit I send them too!
If he wants out why not just say so? Maybe he's like me & can't face it.
My counsellor (non db) last wk said do something different & suggested going to the base, ask him to tell me to my face that he doesn't love me nor want me as his wife. That's pretty scary!
I'm going to be posting here a lot, be warned!
Tumbling
ME41 H39 T12 M9 Ilybinilwy 10/2010 H moves out 11/2010 H moves in 09/2011 out 11/2011 Try to fix it alone, give up 07/2012 Tumbling to file 02/01/2013 :-) "Strong on the inside, soft on the outside"
Labug, I don't know what you mean by 'use preview more often' Thanks for the tip re accuray, I will do my homework. All good things Tumbling
ME41 H39 T12 M9 Ilybinilwy 10/2010 H moves out 11/2010 H moves in 09/2011 out 11/2011 Try to fix it alone, give up 07/2012 Tumbling to file 02/01/2013 :-) "Strong on the inside, soft on the outside"
Labug reached out to me, I haven't read all 4 pages of your thread, but I read the intro and have a general sense for your dynamics. Here are my observations if they help:
You have a great need for connection and reassurance, as I'm sure you've realized.
H does not feel "safe" around you, because unintentional missteps on his behalf cause you to go off, get sad, and make him feel badly for what he has "done to you".
He probably feels he's walking on eggshells, and he outright tells you that he's scared to tell you when he makes plans that don't involve you because of how you are going to react.
According to the book "His Needs, Her Needs" it's very important to men to make their wives happy, proud of them, and to be good providers. When you react the way you do, he interprets that he has upset you and it makes him feel shame, and that physically releases cortisol in his brain which makes him feel badly -- physically and emotionally.
Just as you protect yourself by "going dark", he protects himself by caving and not responding, he is trying to avoid feeling shame for coming up short against your expectations.
What often happens in these situations is that he will come to view you as insatiable -- that nothing he does is ever enough, and for anything he gives, more will be expected. In that context, the only rational solution is to withdraw, because otherwise you'll be consumed.
The truth of the matter, however, is that you are NOT insatiable.
Think of it like hunger -- if you're a little hungry, it doesn't matter much in terms of how you act. Someone would be happy to share their snack with you. If, on the other hand, you haven't eaten anything in 4 days, your behavior is going to be radically altered -- you're going to be ravenous, and will be doing anything you can to find food and eat. Someone who encounters you in that state would be less likely to want to share their snack because your hunger may scare them, and they'd be pretty sure you'd eat it all and shake them upside down to get more. What they don't realize, however, is that if they just feed you a little bit with enough frequency, then you won't be a hungry person at all, your behavior will be different because you won't have this hole to fill.
In your case, you are literally starved for H's attention and reassurance, so you are tempted to pursue getting it with a vengeance. When he gives you the slightest bit, you see hope of satisfying your hunger and will push for more. This scares him and he runs away because he doesn't realize that your hunger has an end, it's not infinite as it appears to him.
This is a relationship trap, but it's not quite the same as "pursuer/distancer" like Labug referenced (either that or it is the same, but very extreme).
In any case, the only way that I have found out of this trap is that you both need to take a leap of faith. You have to believe that if you temporarily suspend your hunger, that over time you will be fed. H has to believe that if he feeds you a little now, that you can be totally and completely satisfied with that, and will not instantly parlay it into more demands.
So the way it starts is that you need to temporarily lower your expectations / needs such that any effort he makes with you is "good enough", and he needs to temporarily try to pay more attention to you than he would otherwise (as he was trying to do before his sailing trip). The goal for both of you is to keep it "low key" for now, be forgiving, and don't either of you let your emotions begin to spiral.
If he's texting you every day and then skips three days, he's going to be scared to death that if he texts you again, you're going to unload on him. You need to make it "safe" for him to text you on the 4th day, that you will be happy with that contact, and that you will not mention or be bothered by the gap *for now*.
It will NOT work to try to lower your expectations longer term -- your needs are your needs, but if this is going to work, you need to work into a new equilibrium with fewer consequences. If you can get into a mode where your "attention tank" is 80% full most of the time versus 10% full most of the time, H will think he's living with a different woman and everything will be easier for him too. The road to get there, however, is littered with Catch-22's and peril.
That's what I've learned about the sitch and it is NOT easy to navigate, it will take commitment and discipline on both your parts if you want it to work.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
The book I meant to reference above was "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It", not "His Needs, Her Needs"
One more way to think about it -- if you had a giant bottle and created a vacuum inside by sucking all the air out and corking it, there's going to be a lot of pent up force there. If you pull the cork out, there will initially be a huge inrush of air. As the bottle starts the fill, the pull will get less intense until it's barely there at all and eventually it's gone.
If you think about a scenario where your H didn't work and followed you around all day, spent all his time entertaining you with pleasant conversation, hugged you constantly and only took breaks to buy your gifts, you'd probably say "enough already!" You would have no abandonment triggers, and you wouldn't act like someone who lacks connection and attention. That's you with the bottle full.
In that context, H would NOT be afraid to tell you anything, and could feel "safe" being himself, because whatever he was doing was completely good enough for you.
Your challenge is to pretend the bottle is full, for some transition period of time, so that H doesn't feel like he's going to pull the cork and get sucked inside the bottle by a huge jet of air. H's challenge is to pump a little air in instead of running away.
Make sense?
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Tumbling, I've gone back and read more of your posts. We are in similar situations, with what sounds like similar men. Just keep doing what you're doing and remember you can't control what he does, you can't control the outcome. That's the hardest thing to accept. Keep reminding yourself.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Accuray thank you so much for reviewing my sitch. Sadly all very true.
I had to laugh at the insatiable hunger description. One ex said I made incessant demands! I am working on this trigger (recognise I've had it in all Rs) but it is very sensitive now after 2 yrs of the current sitch, Everytime he caves I refeel what it felt like the day he moved out & worry he has gone forever.
I'm sure I made him feel v bad about himself & that's why he left. I have never blamed him & taken a look at my behaviours but it's only this year when I reflected on why things were good earlier this yr that I saw the biggest problem is my abandonment trigger. When it's under control & I don't react (seeing the positives instead) things are good but then he planned those guy trips without mentioning it to me til fait accompli. I don't know why he does that as I don't have issues w us doing our own thing & have never created scenes in the past about that. I only do so now as he tells me after it's booked...maybe he'll always do it this way & I will have to learn not to react.
I recognise its all cause & effect & I know I'm going to have to be the one who makes the first change as my actions make him run away. I so don't want to see my marriage end when I can see ways to fix it.
In June when he was 'pushing me away', I reviewed a calendar of when we'd hung out since 1 Jan & although it didn't seem often on the face of things (not good enough in my mind), I saw he had given me what time he could (he goes away w work a lot) & the times he caved I'd pressured him. In b&w I saw that he had been giving to me & I felt so much better about us but then this guys away stuff happened & now look where we are.
I also think H has childhood issues about not being good enough, he has said as much, so we are that book HTFYMWTAI (weirdly I read it last wk) to the extreme.
I'm so cross w my self for over reacting when he was sailing esp as he had said he wanted to come home (guess I wanted proof he meant it) - it was pathetic & what a 180 it wld be if I didn't react that way. But I don't get the silence on return from trip - do you have a view on that?
So what do I do now? How do I demo that I am not this little girl that thinks she's being abandonned anymore? I so want her to stay in the backseat & stop trying to drive my car!
I don't want him to think my silence is 'punishment' & feel worse but I don't want to contact him as if he doesn't reply I'll feel badly. Infact I think I'm being punished (it's not all about you Tumbling!)
I have some admin stuff that needs attending to so shall I stick w that & not ask to see him as wendylon suggested? He didn't ansa the other wk about the hse stuff tho.
I wish I could share your analogies w him but I know I have to wait for a time when he's receptive. I wonder if he'll read that book if I post it?
Friends & family just think I should leave him but I believe we can make it & i need to learn my abandonment lesson if I don't it will just be lather, rinse, repeat.
I hope I get to show/tell him he is good enough & all I've ever wanted in a man & that I'm truly sorry for how I make him feel sometimes, it's not intentional & I am working on my self.
Thanks again Accuray for your take on my sitch. It means a lot that you would offer a view. I've found you v wise on other peoples threads.
Sorry for such a long post but its good to share w folks who get it. My IC just says he's avoidant & will never sort himself out.
Tumbling
ME41 H39 T12 M9 Ilybinilwy 10/2010 H moves out 11/2010 H moves in 09/2011 out 11/2011 Try to fix it alone, give up 07/2012 Tumbling to file 02/01/2013 :-) "Strong on the inside, soft on the outside"
Thank you Bug (I hope I can call you that)for your continued support. I am in the process of back reading your threads and I can see some similarities too. I am in awe of how steady and aware of yourself you sound. One day I hope I am there too.
NC from me today (and none from H either) and I feel fine
ME41 H39 T12 M9 Ilybinilwy 10/2010 H moves out 11/2010 H moves in 09/2011 out 11/2011 Try to fix it alone, give up 07/2012 Tumbling to file 02/01/2013 :-) "Strong on the inside, soft on the outside"
So I am back from my trip away and just had an amazing experience with a friend that has enabled me to start to focus on some inner healing rather than my sitch - yay!
They picked me up from the airport and we sat chatting in the car outside the house. I confessed to my spewing behaviour during H's sailing trip. They were shocked and as I tried to explain my abandonment trigger they finally said "Do you think you're not wanted?" and those exact words resonated with me immediately as the words I have told my Self about my early life. It's my very own personal strapline/jingle (I work in marketing)
So now I know what my primary goal starting this w/e is, I need to take the facts of the story about my beginnings and create a new strapline for my Self.
I think if I start here I can hopefully turn the decibels down of my abandonment alarm.
I'm excited to do this work.
Tumbling (strapline to follow!)
ME41 H39 T12 M9 Ilybinilwy 10/2010 H moves out 11/2010 H moves in 09/2011 out 11/2011 Try to fix it alone, give up 07/2012 Tumbling to file 02/01/2013 :-) "Strong on the inside, soft on the outside"
