Dealing with Anger

[Arsene]

Take your own advice to me and be patient my friend.

Yeah, I know MrsD. Easier said than done, right? I'm staying on track girl. Just tough to stay focused sometimes. Thanks for dropping by.

[Arsene]

Time for a new thread I think.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2281486&#Post2281486

Thanks for sticking with me.

[25yearsmlc]

Hi everyone,

It's been a very quiet weekend on this board and, fortunately (I guess) on the home front as well.

So quiet in fact that I ended up doing some searches on the internet for the sake of seeing what I could do around here to save my relationship in the event my W decided to reconsider her position.

I came across the Retrouvaille program and it turns out it is offered in Singapore, which would make it feasible for us. Also, they just happen to have one of their three weekends a year on the weekend of our anniversary (it'll be our 10th) at the beginning of April 2013.

When we looked into it, we found it in our area and ON our anniversary. It was too coincidental to ignore, and we needed it, and it helped us, a lot.

Now I know what you are going to say about setting my own timelines for things but for the time being, it's just a questions I have about the program and goals setting.

First, about the Retrouvaille program. Can this program work even if one of the spouses isn't 100% sure that they want to save the couple? What I want to know is, if I can convince my W to give it another try and if she came just to humour me (like many S seem to do with MC), would we still get something out of it?


IMO, you just get them there however you can. They'll benefit from it.


What kind of activities are involved? I heard that there was a strong religious angle but that it was possible not to take part in certain activities.

(SIGH) Arsene, trust me, No one will try to convert you.

My h is NOT Catholic. In fact, he's not into organized religion. I am Catholic, (albeit a fairly lapsed one). I called ahead to make sure they would not "push" him, and in retrospect I think my concern was very misplaced. Anyhow, we live in southern California so I can only speak to how it is here.

At ours, There was almost zero discussion of religion, per se. However they DO discuss a spiritual connection and committment in a marriage.

There was a retired Catholic priest in the room who said if there were any folks who "felt damaged by The Church and wanted to talk", he was available. I thought he was brave, frankly. He did NOT run the retreat.

There are "lead couples" who tell their stories, and they teach you what THEY went through, and by listening to them, you will find that you CAN get past whatever ails. you.

I say that b/c the problems the lead couples had, made ours pale in comparison. (Big time) It gave us hope.

Even though Retrovaille was started by the Catholic Church in Quebec, there are inter faith ones and non Catholic weekends too.

But If the mere "word" God bothers you or the idea that there might be a spiritual role in marriage, see if there's an atheist retreat. I cannot vouch for that type of thing existing, however.


From what I read, the one in Singapore, being in a small multicultural city/state, is geared more toward a wider range of people.


I think you'll find that to be the case^^^. I have not heard of anyone finding it too religious ONCE they actually attended it.

But I've heard the concern that it's too religious, by many who simply fear that it will be. Given the givens, I think it's misplaced but I hope that doesn't offend you..


Now, about goal setting. Is it unreasonable to set such a long term goal as:

"I would like my W to agree to come to the Retrouvaille program in April 2013"

I know, reading it now, doesn't sound reasonable. What could I do to make this happen? I guess it'll be up to her and how the sitch evolves between now and then.


I invite your thoughts on this. Thanks.

Seems as if you are still trying manipulating the outcome. You are trying to control it, which is your real goal of going to Retrovaille.

I DO support you getting there with her, but to say "by April 2013", I don't know...maybe if you tell her that it would tie up loose ends or help you resolve things OR improve your co-parenting etc...then maybe on a day when she seems grateful to you, you can raise the issue-

OR a day when there's conflict and you suggest Retrovaille as a way to learn how to resolve conflict b/c Retrovaille is for couples in crisis, and it is.



By the way, I know I'm still only a few weeks into my plan but it feels like things aren't moving at all. In fact, if they are, it feels like they are moving backwards. There has been no contact since last Friday (at all - except for a text from W telling me about school payment - I didn't reply, it didn't require a reply). It just feels like a few months ago, we were friends, doing stuff together as a family and now, we're total strangers. Is this normal?

I'd say it's normal. I do think it's worse when you analyze as much as you do, esp b/c you do it on a daily basis.

Last time you ignored her texts "B/c they didn't REQUIRE a reply" it was passive aggressive. I hope you aren't resorting to that again.

It's one thing to ignore her probes, or her irrelevant comments (which I don't see her making often)

but anything about PLANS or her desire to confirm them, does deserve a reply even if you "said it before" b/c she's trying to confirm.

I hope you do get to Retrovaille. There were 2 couples at our retreat who had lost children, or had out of wedlock kids, 3 had affairs, a spouse or a child had a serious drug problem, etc.

But there they were, talking about re-building their m's, and saying "it's worth it".

[25yearsmlc]

ps RETROVAILLE "Activities"

there were none.

The couples talk, and You listen. Then you either directly /privately communicate with your spouse

OR

you go off by yourself and write...THEN LATER you share what you wrote w/your spouse, again, in private.

I cannot imagine or recall an "activity" that one would have to bow out of for religious reasons. There's no public sharing, although a few people at the end wanted to comment. NO ONE HAS to do that.

Honestly I think the fears are wildly misplaced. But like I said, we went here...

[chatterbug]

ps RETROVAILLE "Activities"

there were none.

The couples talk, and You listen. Then you either directly /privately communicate with your spouse

OR

you go off by yourself and write...THEN LATER you share what you wrote w/your spouse, again, in private.

I cannot imagine or recall an "activity" that one would have to bow out of for religious reasons. There's no public sharing, although a few people at the end wanted to comment. NO ONE HAS to do that.

Honestly I think the fears are wildly misplaced. But like I said, we went here...

25 speaks the truth.

[hopefulinga]

I've looked into Retrovaille as well. My H refuses to go to MC, and I don't know how he would react to this suggestion. I've thought that if it gets to the last wire where everything was falling apart, I would throw it out there as a suggestion, but would it be too late?

quote=25yearsmlc][quote=Arsene]
IMO, you just get them there however you can. They'll benefit from it.

[quote]

I'm curious to how you were able to get your spouses there and what the spouse's attitude was towards R and MC. That would probably help a lot of us out here who are treading water and trying to come up with solutions. I know it would help me, and may help Arsene to not set a deadline but to recognize when the timing was right.

[25yearsmlc]

I would not worry about the timing so much as getting them there.

Giving yourself a timeline might depress YOU, but I would not worry that there's a time that's better or worse for THEM. Unlike some MC, Retrovaille really cannot hurt a m, imo.

So the sooner you get them there, probably, the better. But make sure you say something that is specific to your sitch; meaning if your spouse "KNOWS" they want out, but wants it to be amicable, or knows you have co=parenting issues to work through

then maybe use that as the basis for going, not saving the marriage.

IF your spouse is open to mc OR some sort of "effort" then I'd suggest this asap with the idea that you'll both "be open" to it. The folks who sponsor it will interview you separately over the phone to make sure you have the proper mindset.

Privately you can hope for a miracle, but externally don't show a lot of expectation or pressure b/c that is' what they'll pick up on if they think they want out.

And when you get there, do NOT take the temperature of the m.
Do not ask them "how they like it so far", or pump it up. Don't wonder if THEY are "getting it".

Just listen to the team couples, and do YOUR WORK.

My h's breakthrough came late in the process. I was already glad we had attended, but I had no idea what was coming FOR HIM...

and when he had his breakthrough, it went from a "good" experience for us, to a frickin' great one.

I have seen miracles happen there. I felt a bit of one myself and I know my h's behavior deeply affected my commitment to staying with him.


We were already in piecing and began to backslide. I had little reserves left for hearing him begin to criticize again, OR for another round of DBing on my end, so I said, "I'm done or we get help" and he seemed to know I meant it. He agreed.


When I called Retrovaille, I saw that there was a local one 2 weeks later, ON our wedding anniversary.

It felt like the universe was speaking to us - so we went. I don't know what he expected if it, by MY expectations were so so. I thought it would "help some"...

I didn't expect a big insight or breakthrough from my h, but I got one.

It made piecing a lot clearer and gave us some tools we needed. That's the thing about piecing.

If you have not learned NEW ways of relating, and all you learned when apart, is that you love your spouse, it's not enough. You WILL revert to old patterns b/c that is what you know. Or at least that's what I believe.

So Retrovaille was helpful in that respect. New tools.

We also each attended a personal growth workshop, separately as individuals and that helped immensely.(Thats called "Essential Experience" and I'd suggest that for people married OR divorcing...esp in times of change b/c it gives you great clarity and strength to do what you must to be happy. Very profound)


Retrovaille is a weekend retreat WITH a serious follow up program. The price may seem high but it's much cheaper than mc was for us since we had to pay out of pocket for MC (and divorce is far more expensive).

AND REtrovaille uses a sliding scale if you are unable to pay full price. My h and I ended up paying double the fee, to cover the costs of another couple attending so they could go for free. THAT is how impressed we were.

Where we went, we stayed in a parish retreat so it was no frills but they cooked for us and we had a clean private room and bath.

The weekend is like a jumpstart and then the follow up program helps it stick, and makes it a great deal. Where else can you get a weekend away with food provided, and many WEEKS of follow up after maybe 50 hours of mc for one price? Plus you can keep going to the follow up.

I highly recommend it.

[Arsene]

When we looked into it, we found it in our area and ON our anniversary. It was too coincidental to ignore, and we needed it, and it helped us, a lot.

Yeah, that's the way I felt when I saw the date of the program

(SIGH) Arsene, trust me, No one will try to convert you.

My h is NOT Catholic. In fact, he's not into organized religion. I am Catholic, (albeit a fairly lapsed one). I called ahead to make sure they would not "push" him, and in retrospect I think my concern was very misplaced. Anyhow, we live in southern California so I can only speak to how it is here.
But If the mere "word" God bothers you or the idea that there might be a spiritual role in marriage, see if there's an atheist retreat. I cannot vouch for that type of thing existing, however.


It's not about me. I'm just worried that my W would feel threatened and back out of it if it was too upfront. I would become a practicing (insert religion of your choice here) if it could save my marriage.

"I would like my W to agree to come to the Retrouvaille program in April 2013"

I know, reading it now, doesn't sound reasonable. What could I do to make this happen? I guess it'll be up to her and how the sitch evolves between now and then.


Seems as if you are still trying manipulating the outcome. You are trying to control it, which is your real goal of going to Retrovaille.

I DO support you getting there with her, but to say "by April 2013", I don't know...maybe if you tell her that it would tie up loose ends or help you resolve things OR improve your co-parenting etc...then maybe on a day when she seems grateful to you, you can raise the issue-

OR a day when there's conflict and you suggest Retrovaille as a way to learn how to resolve conflict b/c Retrovaille is for couples in crisis, and it is.

I know that it sounds like I'm trying to manipulate her, but no. I'm trying to save our marriage and family. Besides, someone I highly respect said:

IMO, you just get them there however you can. They'll benefit from it.


Last time you ignored her texts "B/c they didn't REQUIRE a reply" it was passive aggressive. I hope you aren't resorting to that again.


No. This time it really didn't require a reply. She was just informing me that she'd given the maid an advance on her salary and that she'd deduct it from the school payment next month. I try to be vigilant in catching any passive aggressive behaviour. Better I catch it before you do.

I hope you do get to Retrovaille. There were 2 couples at our retreat who had lost children, or had out of wedlock kids, 3 had affairs, a spouse or a child had a serious drug problem, etc.

But there they were, talking about re-building their m's, and saying "it's worth it".


Yeah, from everything I 've read on it, I think that we could benefit much from this program. The only problem is that they say that any affair must be over before going on it. I'm not sure if/when that is going to happen.

25, thanks for your words. It's a great moral boost knowing that you're on my case. There has been some development re:intervention by my in-laws and I'm curious to hear your comments on it. Please check out my new thread.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...164#Post2282164