After 18 months - H is finally filing.

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks guys for the support. The encouragement means so much always...


I am having a tough time with all of this...

In the last few months I have found myself slowly starting to detach from my H. It's been months since I have initiated any contact for any other reason than related to our kids.
Our exchanges are brief and I don't ask about his life or activities. He seldom asks about mine.

A few weeks ago I de-friended my H and blocked OW from FB when they started exchanging love notes openly on his wall. When H found out he said he was confused as to why and was hurt. I simply told him that it was a decision I made more for me than for him and I was sorry he couldn't understand it and that he was hurt.

These ^^^ self protective steps are healthy for YOU. They are not about him, really. But I admit he's a bit odd to not get it. Really? He thinks seeing love notes, publicly expressed, while still married to you, is appropriate?

Does he really not understand how that makes you feel? If you can ask him that question without ANYTHING but curiosity, I would.


I also took my rings off and put them away a couple of weeks ago. I can't explain it, it just felt like the right thing to do. My old M is dead and those rings were a symbol of it. It hurt me to see them on my finger and I felt that my H saw me wearing them as pursuing or my lack of acceptance of my sitch. i don't know if he's noticed or not and honestly don't care anymore.

I totally get that^^^ and think not caring if he notices, is healthy. The old m is dead, and you get it. This is part of Detachment,

something that you have long wanted to begin. Good for you.

As a result of my detachment and acceptance of what is, I have been more at peace everyday. I felt like things were clearly improving for me and that I was finally even started to let go of the tremendous jealousy I felt towards OW.

^^^ this is wonderful news to me.

My life as a single mom is taking its course and I was looking forward to the future and dealing very well with the waves of pain I still feel.

Until this...
Now H is out of a job and we basically have a 3-month reserve to live off before running out of cash. We have a huge 401k loan that is now due, plus next year we will face a huge tax bill for the short-sale of our home.

Part of me wants to react as I have always done when we have faced financial crises - go out and work for our family until my H gets a new job.
I want to do this partly because we still have shared finances and we are both equally responsible for the well-being of our kids.
And partly because I want to show him my support and keep the road paved and smooth. (I know if I do nothing H will take it as a sign of selfishness and lack of caring on my part, thus further validating his leaving me.)


since your children's welfare is THE priority, try your best not to care what he thinks.

YOU KNOW YOUR REASONS ARE VALID, so you will have to do the right thing b/c it's right, knowing he might not agree (or admit agreeing if he does.) It's much easier for him to see NO change in you...so much easier so you cannot care about his opinion anymore, if you have searched yourself enough.

And I trust your judgement b/c you are very self aware and honest.

Doing right by your kids is the main goal now, not proving yourself to a man who does NOT want to believe in your changes.



On the other hand I want to do nothing.
We are no longer a couple. OW is still in the picture and he is going to her for emotional support and is planning his future with her and not me. His job loss is his problem and I need to let him find his own solutions - drop the rope.

He'll also be relying on her, (and or her h's alimony/CS) for HIS own financial welfare, correct? That's a relief, isn't it? I mean, HE does have other resources, which you presently lack.

In the last 12 hours, three diff. family members (including H's sister) have told me to stay put, not go out immediately and find a job and solve this for him.

well that says something, doesn't it? If there are reserves, then that is what they are for. HIS kids...HIS job search. You can offer assistance with the job search for him.

Or Maybe speed up your PART TIME efforts if you want to and if it's not going to hurt the kids.

But will OW be the caretaker of your kids while YOU work? That seems odd. Let HER work so YOU can take care of YOUR kids...


My current thinking is - I will wait for H to settle down and implement his own plan of action. I will wait for him to come to me and communicate about our spending / savings strategy for the next few months while there is no income and how he thinks we will need to tackle the 401k loan and tax issues.

If he doesn't come to me in the next two or three days, I will approach him about it. If he is not receptive or doesn't try to work as a team, then I will let him be. I will give him a month to get his act together. If I don't see any significant and concrete progress on his job search front, then I will have to figure out a babysitting solution and go out and freelance again to pay for my bills.

KG, is it possible that HE will use this as an excuse for not rushing back into work? Do we know ANYTHING about OWs resources?

Almost makes me want to check their FB status and see how often they date and travel and buy things, like cars and homes...

I mean, don't let yourself get screwed over here. I believe I'm being a little paranoid right now on your behalf.

= I don't want you to believe that he's trying to screw you, b/c I don't, but I worry that it COULD be true.

Keep your guard up when it comes to feeding your kids and having mommy time with them.




This is my initial thinking, but am open to suggestions and feedback.
I realize this is a big, big turning point and I want to do the right thing for my family and myself.

So, Your goals are

1) the kid's lives change as little as possible; w/stability & mom time the main priorities.

2) you must economize b/c finances are tight, at your end at least.

(I'm not clear on what OW can do. Why can't SHE contribute to the "home" she is building with your h?)

3) You must be clear about your values/priorities and follow them, without regard to what your h believes about them. (The more you defend them to him, the more he doubts them.)

Live your life according to your newfound beliefs and behaviors.

Detach from his expressed opinion. Nothing you SAY will change his mind.

His beliefs about your motives, or his expressed beliefs, cannot matter to you or it'll sway you from your living your true values.

4) do the above, and Be At Peace.

[unbidden]

25, I do totally love your advice. Always have.

[keep_going]

25 - Thanks for checking in. You have always sincerely cared about my sitch and have given me wonderful advice that I try to implement all the time. I will never be able to repay the serenity, sense of hope and inspiration that you have given me since the very beginning. THANK YOU.

Does he really not understand how that makes you feel? If you can ask him that question without ANYTHING but curiosity, I would.

My H has been clueless about my feelings for so long, that it doesn't affect me anymore. I used to think "really?" but I cannot think of anything he can do or say that will surprise me now - I know he is just not thinking about me at all - I am just not on his radar anymore.

since your children's welfare is THE priority, try your best not to care what he thinks.

YOU KNOW YOUR REASONS ARE VALID, so you will have to do the right thing b/c it's right, knowing he might not agree (or admit agreeing if he does.) It's much easier for him to see NO change in you...so much easier so you cannot care about his opinion anymore, if you have searched yourself enough.

Absolutely. I am at peace and have been for a long time about my motives and will continue assessing my behavior and questioning it to keep myself honest. This is no time to do differently.

He'll also be relying on her, (and or her h's alimony/CS) for HIS own financial welfare, correct? That's a relief, isn't it? I mean, HE does have other resources, which you presently lack.

I don't know if OW's D is final yet. I also know from my H that neither she nor her H make a lot of money. Plus she lives in the Bay Area and we are in S CA. Their R is still long distance at this time. So I don't think she will help him financially, except for maybe taking on the travel down here instead of him flying up there every other weekend.

But will OW be the caretaker of your kids while YOU work? That seems odd. Let HER work so YOU can take care of YOUR kids...

She won't. She doesn't even live here and she has two kids of her own that she shares custody of with her H. Needless to say, she has her hands full as well.

KG, is it possible that HE will use this as an excuse for not rushing back into work? Do we know ANYTHING about OWs resources?

Almost makes me want to check their FB status and see how often they date and travel and buy things, like cars and homes...

I mean, don't let yourself get screwed over here. I believe I'm being a little paranoid right now on your behalf.

= I don't want you to believe that he's trying to screw you, b/c I don't, but I worry that it COULD be true.

Keep your guard up when it comes to feeding your kids and having mommy time with them.

I have thought about all of this myself, believe me. And I think that is why my siblings and H's sister have told me not to rush back to work. They fear H taking advantage of the sitch and not hurry his own job search process.

And they are also worried since he told me three weeks ago that he was filing. I have not received anything, but I know he met with his lawyer. His not having a job would probably benefit him financially in the D.

So, Your goals are

1) the kid's lives change as little as possible; w/stability & mom time the main priorities.

2) you must economize b/c finances are tight, at your end at least.

(I'm not clear on what OW can do. Why can't SHE contribute to the "home" she is building with your h?)

3) You must be clear about your values/priorities and follow them, without regard to what your h believes about them. (The more you defend them to him, the more he doubts them.)

Live your life according to your newfound beliefs and behaviors.

Detach from his expressed opinion. Nothing you SAY will change his mind.

His beliefs about your motives, or his expressed beliefs, cannot matter to you or it'll sway you from your living your true values.

4) do the above, and Be At Peace.

Yes, yes, yes and yes.
Thanks for keeping me focused on the goal line.
((((25)))

[keep_going]

well...

i had a call with my coach today and we talked about how I could re-focus my energies and use these tough times to support and re-connect with my H. My PMA was at an all-time high.

After I hung up, I checked the mail... My H filed for D last Wednesday and the paperwork arrived today.

He then took Friday off work to go on a romantic weekend getaway with OW up in the beautiful Northern CA coast. He posted on Facebook how it was time to "take out his photographing and painting equipment." (he never once painted in the 20 years I have known him...)
On Monday he then went to the Giants game and posted a photo of him smiling in front of Willie Mays' statue. Only to come back on Tuesday to find himself out of a job...

Something about seeing his signature in black and white. It feels so surreal and it just brought back all the pain and hurt.

[unbidden]

I'm so sorry. But, it's just a piece of paper. Tomorrow is another day. Hang in there.

[keep_going]

Thank you, unbidden.

I had a couple of rough hrs. After I opened the mail I had to take the kids to soccer and be strong and smile for them. It was a really beautiful end of summer afternoon at the park after all.

On the drive back home, the tears starting coming out. When this all started and for months thereafter, driving became the place and time where I usually let go of my pain. It all came back today. I was lucky I was able to hide it from the kids.

For those moments, I went back to that dark ugly place. That place where everyone who has been left behind has gone - where you feel unlovable, rejected, replaced like a piece of furniture.

Them my worst demon came back - that nasty, nasty thought - It must be true. I must be the most horrible and worst spouse ever for H to have left me with a one year old, a two year old and knowing I was 10 weeks pregnant. The worst partner to have left after just a week after moving into our dream fixer, upper home. The worst to have thrown away 13 years of building a solid financial plan and the future stability of our kids.

That, my friends is my ugliest demon, my dark place, my worst thought that I thought I had crushed. And today, it came back.

So I am letting it be and I think it's almost gone.
I am starting to feel better. Having to do the evening routine helps - make dinner, bath time, clean up...
Now the kids are winding down and pretty soon it will be bedtime.

I will come back later. Today I need to...

[unbidden]

Why don't you try doing a Byron Katie turnaround, asking what kind of man would leave a young family and pregnant wife. It's not you with the issue, it's him. Plus, having such young kids is totally stressful on a relationship. I only had two Ds and the second one almost broke me she was such a colicky kid. But he chose to run away instead of manning up and leading his family. Pity him.

[needgrace]

((((((((((((((((((((((KG)))))))))))))))))))))))

I am so so sorry that you are in such pain today and that your mind is playing such tricks on you. you have crushed that awful not true thought before and you can do it again... i brought over a quote form scared silly on her thread that i really really like...


"i think we, as women, try so hard to be what our H's need. i see some on here so depressed at not measuring up to what their H's require. they accept the negative evaluations given by these H's. i did, too.

all i can say to them is this: accept responsibility for what you know you could have been better at. however, it's not your responsibility to make someone happy. don't let them blame their unhappiness on you.

little by little, like a slow errosion, they chip away at our self esteem, blaming us for not being everything they want, changing that definition whenever it suits them.

know you are good. know you are worthy of love and respect. know you are not to blame for their unhappiness."

[keep_going]

ok... kids are in bed - finally.
I need to journal a bit more and get it all out of my system.

Rough day indeed and I guess I am being tough on myself, but if I have to look at things - just the hard, cold facts...
The truth is that I've had a YEAR AND A HALF to DB, to change, to show my H that from this moment forward things could be better with me.
Heck - to at least make him doubt.
Ultimately, to become the best me possible.

But the truth is that I have not been successful. Sure there are some areas where I have improved and I can say that I am 100% aware of my faults before and when they happen now. That I am good at taking responsibility.
And I am good even at having the best of intentions.

But the truth is that I am still a world away from being the best me ever. Of making my H doubt his choices. Very recently he told me that he gets anxious every time he comes over here. That he is always walking on eggshells with me and he does not want to and cannot live like that anymore.
(same comment he said when he first left.)

So there it is... The truth. Even if he wanted back, we would fail miserably because I am not where I need to be.

Why? Why am I failing?

I know that I sabotage my own efforts because of my thinking of OW and just thinking that while she is around, I have zero chance.

When she first came in the picture, everyone in my life and even here told me that there was no chance in He!! that they would make it. Too many challenges to overcome, etc. Well, it's been a year and a half and they are becoming more serious by the day.


Something that occurs to me at this point is the following. I always thought that an infidelity would be a deal breaker for me. Always... I am the most loyal person. When I give myself - to a friend or in a R, I will give 100% of me and trust that person 100%.
When I found about OW, I thought I could overcome it and we could overcome it. But my intense jealousy since then has made me wonder because I have NEVER been a jealous person. So why now? Why does it hit me so hard?

Perhaps I am kidding myself and infidelity is truly a deal breaker... H has been with OW for so long now and their R has been so intense that if it ever ended and we ever reconciled, there would be so so many triggers, reminders, challenges and things to overcome for both of us that I honestly don't know if we could survive anymore.

Perhaps I am thinking too much tonight.
And most of it not helpful...

[25yearsmlc]

first off

(((HUGS))) to you KG....you admit feelings I fear having!

And when it is all said and done, our worst fears even if we are not LBSers, is that down deep beneath our masks, we are horrible unlovable creatures.

-That our alcoholic parent might not have had so much to drink if we'd behaved better

-that our moms would have been more loving OR given us more one on one time, if we'd been better children,

-that our siblings would all be close to us if they didn't know the truth...

-that we'd never be lonely if we were good people...

but the truth is that beneath our layers, there is NO monster. We're just human beings who want to be loved and who want to love.

Others may teach us, via tough life lessons, how NOT to, or how to close ourselves off or how to feel fear, and lash out.

So we have to shed those false lessons and get back to our essence. B/C deep down you are a wonderful BRAVE strong woman who wants nothing more than to learn to love fully, as a mother and a mate.

And you are smart and talented and incredibly articulate too. That's the real you I see here.

ok... kids are in bed - finally.
I need to journal a bit more and get it all out of my system.

Rough day indeed and I guess I am being tough on myself, but if I have to look at things - just the hard, cold facts...
The truth is that I've had a YEAR AND A HALF to DB, to change, to show my H that from this moment forward things could be better with me.
Heck - to at least make him doubt.
Ultimately, to become the best me possible.

But the truth is that I have not been successful. Sure there are some areas where I have improved and I can say that I am 100% aware of my faults before and when they happen now. That I am good at taking responsibility.
And I am good even at having the best of intentions.

But the truth is that I am still a world away from being the best me ever. Of making my H doubt his choices. Very recently he told me that he gets anxious every time he comes over here. That he is always walking on eggshells with me and he does not want to and cannot live like that anymore.
(same comment he said when he first left.)

Just b/c he SAID that does not make it true. And even if it were true, let's face it. He does NOT want to believe you've changed, he's motivated NOT to believe it.

So there it is... The truth. Even if he wanted back, we would fail miserably because I am not where I need to be.

Why? Why am I failing?

Assuming you are accurate, which is a huge assumption, I'd say this is a Good question. It's for your c or t probably.

How are your r's with others going?

You sound like you have improved as a mother and that counts KG! That may end up being a lot more important than anything else you get out of this b/c 3 other people benefit directly...and who knows?

I can't help but think he'll see it too. Does not matter though, for now.

I know that I sabotage my own efforts because of my thinking of OW and just thinking that while she is around, I have zero chance.

try changing that tape. Be the better choice b/c of what a great mate and mother you are becoming. We all evolve as parents.

OMG trust me on that. My h and I are dealing with a really big issue for us with our d23 and I feel like I've been handling in on my own for 2 years now. (Well, h is overseas deployed right now so that's part of it) But even before, he did not want to discuss it. I went to see a c, (our old mc) about it and h assumed I was "hiding" a marital problem from him. Not so.

I was dealing with a parental issue that h did not help me with. So as I said, we all are evolving as parents too.

When she first came in the picture, everyone in my life and even here told me that there was no chance in He!! that they would make it. Too many challenges to overcome, etc. Well, it's been a year and a half and they are becoming more serious by the day.


Something that occurs to me at this point is the following. I always thought that an infidelity would be a deal breaker for me. Always... I am the most loyal person. When I give myself - to a friend or in a R, I will give 100% of me and trust that person 100%.
When I found about OW, I thought I could overcome it and we could overcome it. But my intense jealousy since then has made me wonder because I have NEVER been a jealous person. So why now? Why does it hit me so hard?


MAYBE, because of what you say next...

Perhaps I am kidding myself and infidelity is truly a deal breaker... H has been with OW for so long now and their R has been so intense that if it ever ended and we ever reconciled, there would be so so many triggers, reminders, challenges and things to overcome for both of us that I honestly don't know if we could survive anymore.

this is a powerful insight and a valid concern. Maybe it's why she bothers you so much. You think "well, realistically it's done and she won. And he won't regret it b/c he won't know I'm better and she'll get the improved version of him..."

And even if all of that is true, you forget that you are a better more loving mom than you were before and as a child you had some deficits in your upbringing your children will NOT have.

That matters.

And you shall become a better mate but perhaps with OM. Okay fair enough.

THen what? Then the "competition" is over b/c all that matters is YOUR Happiness.

If your ex h has a flat tire and your new man has a nicer car, it changes nothing in the "Score card". Your day isn't better b/c his is bad.

Your h's happiness or misery CANNOT be relevant to yours.

That's why OW cannot matter to you. You see her as proof of your badness.

She's not! So what if she's kind? I mean thank GOD, but so are you. And she gets the benefit of your mistakes. What do we know about HER xh?

And how do you think she'll feel having her kids half time? And your h raising HER kids? And he'll have to support them more, b/c her h doesn't make much and neither does she...oh, that's nice.

Don't skim over the future stresses they'll have. They have avoided them w/ a long distance r, for a long time, and you have APPEARED to be the obstacle to their happiness.

I might be wrong AND it might not matter.

But I'd say a year after they're finally free, married or not,

they'll open their eyes to how much pain they have inflicted on 5 children...and they will have to live with that.

So, maybe it'll be worth it, maybe not.

ALL YOU CAN DO IS MAKE THE MOST OF YOUR LIFE, from this day forward.

I'd consider dating if I were you. Can you at least entertain the idea?


Not as a tactic, but as a gift to yourself to remind yourself that dang it, you are desirable.

Plus, maybe at least to get your h to see you acting HAPPY with OM,(even if you have to invent him...)

might be easier than acting happy WITH your h,

and if you are right about there being too much water under the bridge now, then so be it. Forward movement is good.

But if it's truly truly over, then I'd do 2 things. I'd give myself the same forgiveness I'd have worked to give my h, and then I'd go right back to the

"All you can do is make the most of your life, from this day forward", motto.