I just remembered a question I have, I checked the Retrouvaille schedules and there's going to be a session in my area but it's only about 2 months away. I suspect W would agree to go, but I'm concerned her heart might not be in it since she will not have been out of the house long at that point, and I'm also concerned she might view it as me pressuring her to R. Any thoughts? My inclination is to not say anything about it and try to get a read on her in about a month and decide whether or not to schedule it then.
Also, I haven't mentioned this but I've always been a very spiritual person and I have really laid my tears on God's shoulders as no one else wants to see them. Like many guys, I was raised to suppress tears and went many, many years without shedding a single one. I've cried more since this misery started than in the last probably 35 years combined. It's been a tough road.
I have had the same thoughts about getting my wife to agree to marriage counseling and it all comes down to would she see it as me trying to pressure her. This is that fine line between detaching and when to try and work on the relationship. I have decided to let my wife take the lead in this at her own pace. For me it is a matter of not taking a step back as I am afraid my wife will see it as me trying to manipulate things. If her heart is not in it would it be beneficial? Or would it set you back? Right now I am willing to try anything but if my wife's heart is not in it personally I would wait as I think it would set us back. Patience is what is killing me with this stuff. If your gut is telling you not to do it then there is a really good reason for those doubts.
Tearing down the walls I have built up has also been really hard. I too have shed more tears in the last month then I have in decades. It is a tough road but it is part of the 180. Hang in there.
Patience is what is killing me with this stuff. If your gut is telling you not to do it then there is a really good reason for those doubts.
Thanks Sam, you're confirming what I was thinking as well. I'd like to think that Retrouvaille would be some eye-opening experience for her and me both, but the potential downside is that she'll have the opposite reaction to it and it'll end up being backsliding instead of forward progress. She's about a week from moving out and I really think it's going to take 3 to 6 months before she even begins to consider reconciliation based on the success threads I've read here, so I don't think I'll push for Retrouvaille unless there's some miraculous turnaround on her part in the next month.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
Tearing down the walls I have built up has also been really hard. I too have shed more tears in the last month then I have in decades. It is a tough road but it is part of the 180. Hang in there.
Thanks! I've been doing pretty well emotions-wise the last couple of weeks, but I'm sure when W moves out it's going to get tough again for a while. We've worked out a 50-50 split on two of our kids (the 3rd is in college) and even on the weeks I don't have them they'll still be coming to my house after school and W will pick them up there, so I'll get to see them every weekday regardless of whether it's my week or hers. So that'll make it an easier transition for me (hopefully).
My wife talked about her big brick wall in MC, said she built it around herself and can't take it down now. DB'ing is all about removing it a brick at a time. I wish it could be kicked down, but it was built slowly and has to be deconstructed slowly.
I think if she would go to Retrouvaille in 2 months, you should definitely do it. She might move out and it not have the effect you desire, who knows. I dont think waiting is a good idea, IMO.
Thanks Cadet and unbidden for the input! She's definitely not interested in the M at this point. We've been through 5 or 6 counseling sessions and W just kept repeating "he's changed but I don't want to try anymore" and she finally said she was done with MC. That's when I put DB into effect and quit pressuring her about the M. No more counseling, no more deep R discussions. I must say that "acting as if" has taken a lot of the tension out between us. I started out "acting" happy and content, but the more I've done it the more content I've become and the less I've had to "act". At this point I feel like whether we reconcile or whether I move on to another woman there is a bright future waiting for me.
I dug back through this forum and others and read a lot of posts about Retrouvaille. It seems pretty clear that it has a lot of benefit when both spouses are questioning the M but willing to try, but it has very limited benefit (as far as saving the M) in the case where one spouse has cashed out, so it's off the table at this point.
Now for some random journaling. W slept in her rental for the first time Saturday, but she hasn't moved enough stuff over there to function yet so she was back home (in my/ our bed) last night. She doesn't seem to be in a particular hurry to move out. She started packing some stuff yesterday, so I went out and worked in the yard. When I came back in I was surprised to see she had quit packing and was messing around on her laptop posting pics of the kids on FB. We're still getting along great so there's no tension or anything. Just seems curious to me that she's got a house but doesn't seem to be in a hurry to get into it.
Every once in a while W does something that seems to indicate she forgets sometimes that she's "done" with me. For example, we went to eat dinner with the kids and she sat next to me, I was wearing shorts and she put her hand on my thigh and slid it upwards. Then it was like she suddenly realized we're not a "couple" anymore and pulled her hand away. I didn't react and I'm not reading anything into it, I'm not sure it's a baby step so much as her forgetting and acting like she used to briefly before catching herself.
But there was one nice baby step yesterday. One of the 180's I've done is I used to gripe a lot when we were driving, and especially about W's directions because she tends to do things like tell you to turn just as you're passing the intersection, LOL! I've completely stopped that and just go with the flow now. Miss the turn? No biggie, we can turn around and go back. It's all good. Anyway, W mentioned that she does the same thing with our D (who is currently on a learner's permit) and that D gripes about it. I said jokingly "so she's just like me then?", and W said "well, like how you used to be." A small step to be sure, but it was nice to hear W acknowledge that I've changed.
I have a counsler I really like that I must of spoke to for 10 hours before I did DB counseling. They really got my mind on the right track. I am ashamed to say that the same things they put in front of me are things I try and teach my children. Life is full of choices and consequences.
Additionally, and this is what I have had to realize. If she does not want to do it it likely will not work.
It is also possible to have a reconciliation with out MC so the risks, to me at least, out weigh the benefits of pushing it.
But there was one nice baby step yesterday. One of the 180's I've done is I used to gripe a lot when we were driving, and especially about W's directions because she tends to do things like tell you to turn just as you're passing the intersection, LOL! I've completely stopped that and just go with the flow now. Miss the turn? No biggie, we can turn around and go back. It's all good. Anyway, W mentioned that she does the same thing with our D (who is currently on a learner's permit) and that D gripes about it. I said jokingly "so she's just like me then?", and W said "well, like how you used to be." A small step to be sure, but it was nice to hear W acknowledge that I've changed.
Great for her to see that! Going with the flow is one of my bigger changes too. It was also great for her to acknowledge it to you too!
Sam, thanks for the thoughts! I'm keeping up with your thread, sounds like you're seeing some positive signs even though it may not seem that way since you're so close to the sitch
Journaling- W slept at her rental the last couple of nights and plans on doing so from now on. She's still not sure when she's going to transition to living only over there though (she's still moving stuff over), and she's also not sure when she wants to commence the 50-50 visitation of the kids. She said she'll probably just have them over for a night or two here and there to get them adjusted. I'm not pressuring her over anything, told her to take all the time she needs. Last night she had planned on taking s9 and d15 to sleep at her house and asked me if it was OK, I said it was. But when she got to my house neither of them wanted to go with her. Maybe things like this will open W's eyes up to the fact that the happy home-away-from-home she pictures may not be what she imagined or work out like she thought.
I did do what some may consider a backslide late last week, in one of our email exchanges I mentioned to her that I wanted her to know that the house rental and furniture purchase was not a "deal killer" for me as far as reconciliation goes, that while I thought we both needed the separation to think things through that I didn't want her to be afraid to approach me about reconciliation because she might think I wouldn't consider it because it's "gone too far". I told her I don't think that at all and wouldn't in the future either. I also told her no need to reply, I just wanted to let her know. While it might be considered backsliding, I know how my wife thinks regarding financial issues and I would hate to talk to her years from now only to find out she had wanted to reconcile after a few months but was afraid to approach me due to the money spent on her rental. The old me might have complained to her, but that guy is long gone at this point.
Not much else to report, for now she's still coming by my house every evening before heading to hers and we're getting along great considering.
Just some thoughts for the day, the more I talk to friends and family about my sitch the more I hear about how often this WAW syndrome seems to happen. And surprisingly, nearly everyone I talk to says their WAW wanted to come back at some point.
Example #1- My own mom was a WAW, but I never knew until a few weeks ago that she tried to return. After a few months on her own, my dad came home to find her in his kitchen cooking a meal acting like nothing ever happened. They talked and she said she wanted to come home. But he had moved on and told her to get out.
Example #2- my stepdad's first wife was a WAW and may have been MLC. It took her 2 years to try and return, but he too had moved on and wasn't interested.
Example #3- a good friend of mine's W walked about 2 years ago. They never got a D and she has been trying to get back with him for around 6 months now, but he's on the fence about it.
Surprisingly I didn't know about any of the above until recent weeks. These are people I've known for decades! Anyway, hearing stories like these (especially from people close to me) gives me incentive to wait on my W a while.
More journaling, I've got a bunch of posts that are not showing up yet because of moderation so I hope I'm not repeating myself.
W and I exchanged some emails about the kids, all 3 have events that all hit on the same Saturday. Unfortunately it's the same day as a yearly R/C fly-in I like to go to. My W emailed this (in part):
"I think you should plan to go to both fly in events. You don't do that much for yourself, they are only once a year and I know you enjoy them."
I'm just throwing this out there because there were a couple of responses to my first post that people may have had the impression that I immerse myself in the hobbies, I tried explaining that it's not as bad as I may have made it sound and hopefully this email will clarify that W doesn't think I'm being selfish regarding the hobbies. She's never complained about it, and this isn't the first time she's said I don't do much for myself. Maybe she's telling me to GAL, LOL!
BTW I still chose not to go to the fly-in and to go to the kids' events instead.
W is still coming by my house every evening and basically just sleeping at her house. It's a little odd, I thought she was really anxious to strike out in her new, independent, free-wheeling life of total happiness; but instead she seems content to come "home" as usual and just sleep somewhere else. I'm sure this will change once she gets completely moved, but she doesn't seem to be in a hurry.
