Dealing with Anger

[Denver_2010]

Hi Denver,

Thanks so much for your time. It's very helpful, believe me. I just have a few things I'd like to clarify.

Question 1.

W + OM = You are not a part of her life except for kids and financial necessities.

I was a bit taken aback with this so I went to re-read both the LRT and the section on Infidelity in DR. MWD still appears to advocate LRT in a case like mine. Your approach seems to be more a step towards atLRT.

No. After LRT is more of an ultimatum. I'm NOT suggesting you do that at this point at all. I am suggesting LRT with boundaries.

I'm asking because, what I've been doing lately seems to be having an effect. W is starting to want to be around a bit more. She has included me in meals and even an outing

The number one rule of DB is DO WHAT WORKS. I would never steer you away from doing what works. But it also comes down to what you can handles emotionally. I simply could not handle being an active part of my W's life as long as OM was. That was my boundary. I set that boundary for myself. To protect myself. Not to punish W and not to control her.

Again, a personal call for you.

Question 4.

I need to think about this some more because I'm pretty sure that it's just a matter of time before it happens. Since W is not yet interested in saving our M, I don't think I should take your approach. That might risk putting W on his side against me at this point and I don't want to encourage that. However, I'm not going to shake OM's hand and tell him to take care of W either. I'm looking for something between Suppo's approach and yours.

Don't blame you. It is completely up to you man. But, this is the convo between my W and I after my confrontation with OM....

W: "You have no right to go to my house without being invited. EVER! No right. How dare you. I am not your possession and you lost me fair and square while you f'd with my heart for 8 years. You have a lot of nerve."

Me" "Ok. I'm sorry for going to your house uninvited. But you don't have to worry about it happening again."

W: "F you you c*c(sucke*! How dare you!!!!!!"

Me: "You can have him W."

W: "Don't tell me what I can have. I can do whatever the F I want."

Me: "Yes you can."

W: "Did you think about SS just now or just your selfish jealousy!!!! F you!!!!!"

Me: "Me?! Seriously W? You are the one that has put SS in this position. I just wanted to take him to breakfast."

W: "You don't show up in MY house unannounced. Ever!"

Me: "I called. But that's not really the point now. At least not for me."

W: "I need to know that SS is okay. Get the F out of my house."

Me: "SS is fine. Will you sign the D papers or do I need to have you served?"

W: "F off"

Me: "I have fought for you W. I have fought for you like I've never fought for anything in my life. But you have betrayed the trust I had in you not to break my heart."

W: "Bullsh!t. You still have your agenda and if I don't comply with your expectations, then you throw me to the curb."

W: "So typical. You are a selfish d!ck. I need to know where SS's meeting is today."

(W and I were suppose to have meeting with SS's school today. Obviously, I did not attend)

W: "You have my kid??!!!!!!!!!"

Me: "Comply with my expectations?? I was willing to be patient and give you all of the time in the world! But not to be f'ing some other guy."

W: "You f'ing d!ck. Take him home now or I will report you to the cops for kidnapping."

Me: "Fine. I will take him home."

* I told SS that W wanted me to take him home. He was disappointed and I think that he was upset. When we got to W's house, I told him that I loved him and that none of this was his fault. I told him to call me if he needs me. He said okay and went inside.

About 30 minutes later, W texted me again.

W: "I left you. I can F whomever I want and it's none of your business if I am or not."

W: "You wanted to work things out and I said I wasn't ready."

Me: "You can Em. That's right. And I can make the choice that I can't take the pain of it. And that is what I am doing."

Me: "I know what I want. I want to be married. And I'm now making the choice to begin looking elsewhere for that."

W: "Poor baby. Your pain!!! Really f'er!! It's all about your pain?? Has it not come to your attention that my pain... the pain that you have caused... is why OM is in my life in the first place. Because you weren't man enough to love me, care for me, and have a life with me."

W: "You created this hell and it's destroyed more than you. You think that this is easy on me?! This affects me too. Being torn between a chance at happiness and being loved or risking going back to our marriage, hoping for the best but fearing the same life of lonliness and pain."

W: "You have no clue how all of this has impacted my life and SS's life. You still only think of yourself."

W: "And don't threaten me you a$$hole. I'm sick of your threats. If you want to file for a D today then go do it."

Me: "I have spent the past 3 months doing everything that I can to show you how I KNOW that I f'd up and how sorry that I am for that. I've told you this before, but you leaving me was the best thing that has ever happened bc it caused me to open my eyes to who I was and who I want to be. I've tried to show you that."

W: "3 months is nothing compared to 7 years. I spent 7 years trying to get you to love me and be a part of my life. Do you know how it feels to know how unwanted and unloved you are for years? No, you don't. But it felt like sh!t. Knowing that you never wanted anything to do with me."

W: "Now you want to fix it and I'm suppose to jump up and down for joy. You are an arrogant b*stard."

Me: "I'm sorry that you have felt 'torn' between a chance at happiness with OM and our M. You no longer need to feel that way. I'm removing myself from the equation W."

Me: "I'm going to begin to move on with my life."

Me: "I KNOW that I was not good to you in a lot of ways W. I own that. As far as expecting you to jump up and down for joy goes, I don't know. I didn't expect things to happen overnight. But you have made it very clear that you have no intention of trying to do anything that would help us heal from everything."

W: "You don't need to begin. You've had your own life since you met me. You've only just started to consider having a life with me, but you can't think of anyone but yourself can you. You are pitiful and I feel bad for the next b!tch you pretend to give a sh!t about."

Me: "I will never repeat the mistakes taht I made with you. The next 'b!tch' in my life is going to get EVERYTHING from me. What I wanted to give to you."

Me: "I understand taht you are still angry and hurt. I really do. I don't even blame you. But I simply can't continue fighting under these circumstances. I think that if you really think about it, you will understand. At least I hope so. I don't hate you. I love you. I always will."

W: "Well, I'm glad that you got something from me. I trained you for some other ho*ker. Hope you're happy now that you've figured it all out.

Me: "I hope you are to W. Really."

W" "F you."

** W then began texting me again about 3 hours later.

W: "I am pressing charges against you for entering my home and taking SS without my permission. You also broke into my room in order to intimidate OM. You had no right."

Me: "SS let me into the home and wanted to go with me. I had no intention of intimidating OM. I didn't even know he was there for sure."

W: "Really. YOu just decided to break into my room and bathroom for fun. SS is not an adult. you know you can't just waltz into someone's home as you please and take their kid without permission."

Me: "I didn't 'break' into your room"

W: "I guess we'll see what the police think about my ex coming into my home while I'm at work, confronting the guy I have been seeing, and taking my son without permission."

Me: "Listen, I'm not going to be drawn into a tit for tat argument with you. I didn't do anything to hurt you W."

W: "What are you psycho! I told you after the wedding that I wanted space. That I didn't want you coming by unannounced or calling SS to locate us."

W: "You are just as crazy as you always have been. You ruined our marriage, not OM"

Me: "No W, I'm not psycho. I do love you and SS though. If that helps explain why I'm upset. I called SS before I came over and asked if he wanted to go get breakfast"

Me: "Go be happy with OM W. I'm not saying or doing anything to stop you. I'm removing our marriage as plan B for you. You have not been fair or honest."

Me: "I don't care one way or the other about OM. He is not worth my breath. I'm not wasting anymore time talking about him. Like I said, you want him, you got him."

W: "I have been honest. I told you we were talking again. I told you I was having a hard time. I told you I wasn't in a place to fix things. You have a lot of nerve accusing me of plan B. That's all your efforts are about. Your f'ing plan B. You blew me off for years, dared me to leave, ignored us, emotionally abused us, and then when I left, you decided you'd rather have us than not."

W: "If you weren't such a selfish f*ck, then I wouldn't be seeing anyone. I'd be home with you, building a life with you. You didn't want that though. YOu wanted space, freedom, porn, ex girlfriends and bed buddies."

W: "Don't you dare blame this on me. You are a f'ing a$$hole and were to stupid to see what you had until it was gone."

Me: "All of that is true. But not over the past few months. And you told me that you needed space and time. That you didn't want to date anyone. That last part was obviously a lie. But it doesn't matter anymore. It just doesn't."

Me: "I didn't blame you when we first began talking about working on our marriage back in February. As hard as it was, I swallowed my pride, recognized my part in causing what happened, and made the decision to move beyond it."

W: "No, that's what you want to believe. I never said I put OM out of my life. And again, it's none of your business."

W: "You are crazy. Once again, you've pointed out that things have to be on your terms and if not, then we can get lost. Same as you've been saying for years. How about you tell me something different."

Me: "This time is different. We have spent 3 months together. At times talking about a future for our marriage and even going to counseling. you have seen that I am dead serious about the things that I have worked to change. Yet you continue to completely disregard the fact that we are married. You can say or think whatever you want to justify your actions W. they are not justified at this point. But that is simply my point of view. You have to live with yourself.... not me. Not now."

Me: "I do NOT want this W! But I REFUSE to live in an open marriage. The last thing in the world that I want is for you and SS to not be a part of my life. I do not want this. I've said it for 6 months. How many times to I have to say it and in how many ways for you to understand that? You are leaving me with no choice at this point. No choice! How could you even respect me if I didn't walk away at this point? How could I respect myself?"

W: "I don't respect you as it is. I haven't forgiven you and that is why I wanted space."

Me: "And I was more than happy to give you space. I understood that."

W: "Oh ok. Just as long as you got to control me in the meantime. right."

Me: "I just didn't realize that give you space and time to figure out if you could forgive me meant that you'd be f'ing someone else in the meantime. Sorry, but I'm not okay with that."

Me: "I know that I can't control you. I'm not even trying to. But I deserved to know so taht I could make decisions regarding my life accordingly. Now I know. And now I'm going to move on. I want to be married. I want a family. I want someone who loves me and wants my love. That is no longer you. I have to accept that and begin to open myself up to finding that person. And I simply need to stop wishing, hoping and working for something that obviously is not going to happen."

W: "You had a family. You had someone who loved you. You have no right to accuse me of f'ing anyone. You don't know what's going on in my life. I'm not f'ing you and I hang out with you sometimes. Me asking for space was because I need time to sort through all of the sh!t you've put me through. Including the last few months. You do not own me and I left you to live my life without the man who didn't want me anyway. Now you're hiring and want another chance, but that doesn't change the fact that I left you as a result of your actions over the years."

Me: "I know W. I don't dispute any of that. What I'm saying is that I'm unwilling to continue fighting for you under these circumstances. It is too painful. I don't think that it is fair to me. It isn't fair to SS. and frankly, it isn't fair to OM. I'm going to let you live your life without me in it. And I'm going to do what I can to heal from all of this and move on."

Me: "I do want to be clear though, I do not want this. Never have"

W: "What you say now is worthless to me. You've hurt me more than you realize obviously. Otherwise you wouldn't feel like I've done you wrong by seeing someone else. You still think that I owe you something. I'm doing things on my terms now Denver, not your's. Even if OM weren't in my life I wouldn't be with you right now. You have too much sh!t to deal with and be honest with yourself about. Your actions today prove that once again."

W: "I had made some decisions about my life, but this changes everything. Go find another wife. I'm sure taht she will be just as unsatisfying as I was. I am taking care of me and SS. Not you. Not OM. Me and SS. That's what matters to me."

W: "You are always thinking that life is greener with another woman. You are a d!ck. go do as u always wanted. go find someone new."

Me: "I want to be very clear W. I do not want anyone else on this planet other than you, my wife. There is no greener grass. there is just grass. There are problems in all relationships. I know that. Bottom line, YOU have made this decision for me."

W: "You made the choice"

Me: "Ok W."

W called me just as we finished up that tex conversation. Again, my recollection is not perfect of everything that was said.

Convo began with a rehash of the above. Lot's of name calling etc. I remained very calm during the entire thing. I kept telling W that this was not something that I had wanted, but that I was done. I told her that the best way to put it is that I am closing the door to our marriage but not locking it. She kept telling me that I expect her to be ready to work on our M on my terms and my timeline. I told her that I have been fine giving her space and time, but that I draw the line with her dating OM's. That I am not going to live in an open marriage. She told me that we no longer have a marriage ... that it is just a piece of paper (something that I had told her a long time ago). I told her that I view it differently. That she was always right to see it as something sacred. Anyway, here are th highlights:

W: "You don't know anything about why OM was at the house"

Me: "I know that he was there all night"

--------

W: "I think that I've made the decision not to have either you or OM in my life"

Me: "Okay. That is your choice."

--------

W: "I told you that I need space and time to figure things out. Don't you understand that?"

Me: "I understand space and time. And W, I'd give you all of the time in the world to figure it out."

W: "Oh, but not if I date other people?!"

Me: "No, that is where my boundary is. I am not okay with that. I will not live in an open marriage. I do not think that you need to date OP to sort through things. It's been 6 months and I haven't."

W: "So what are you asking me to do?"

Me: "I'm not asking you for anything. I don't want anything from you. I'm not trying to convince you of anything and I'm not trying to get you to do anything. I am moving on with my life. I don't want anything from you at this point. I'm shutting the door on our marriage."

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W: "I always wanted to be loved by you. And now you want to give that to me and it p!sses me off. After all of the years that I tried, it p!ssed me off that it has taken this to get you to want that."

W: "And I still don't believe it. I think that if I hadn't left you and someone else hadn't caught my attention that you'd still be sleeping on the couch and getting upset with me everytime I did any little thing that you don't approve of.'

Me: "No, that would not happen again. I have learned too much"

W: "CAn't you see why I'm afraid?"

Me: "yes. I understand completely why you are afraid."

---------------------

Me: "I'm not mad. I'm sad. I'm sad that this is the end of our M."

W: "I don't think that we should be using the word marriage."

Me: "Well that is not my point of view. You have no right to tell me how I should view it."

----------------

W: "And if I just take space and don't see anyone else?"

Me: "Um, I don't know. I suppose that if you came to me and said that, I would have something to think about. But again, I'm not asking you for anything. As far as I'm concerned, I am moving on."

SILENCE for a long period of time... I ended the convo. "well, I'm going to go. you are not saying anything."

W: "Okay. Bye."

Me: "Bye"

My reason for posting that? To show you that it isn't always terrible to have your WAS p!ssed at you. Again, I don't regret for one second what i did. And today? My W knows exactly how I feel about OM, her R with OM, and what I would do if it comes up again. There is a certain level of pride that I take in taking that stand.

I'm not trying to talk you into anything. Just trying to tell you not to completely deny yourself of legitimate feelings.

The thing is, when I adopted the action plan you so cleverly wrote, my impressions and goals, based on the points highlighted below was to detach, not to pursue or initiate contact, be the first one to terminate contact, GAL and maintain some mystery but all of this while being the best person I can be while she is around to give her a taste of what she stands to lose. If, after having done this for a while (still undetermined - to be determined by my state of mind) I see that it's not leading me anywhere, then I would start "closing the gate" and taking these nice things away from her.

Does that make sense? That's what I got from DR but I'm not sure it's right anymore.

I actually do think that makes total sense. The question for me always was WHEN do I close those gates. THAT is a question only you can answer.