Dealing with Anger

[Denver_2010]

1. Where is the line between being kind, pleasant, funny, fun to be around and pursuing? How can I be loving and not be seen as pursuing?

IMO, as long as your W is with, or spending time with, OM, that you cannot pursue or pressure. Meaning, you only have contact with her when it is necessary, usually re your kids. You give her the space that she is asking for by living your life without her.

WHEN YOU DO have that incidental contact, THAT is when you are pleasant and fun to be around (even if it's only for 1 or 2 minutes). Just be yourself. If there's a chance to be funny, be funny.

The point is that you are happy without her. You are being who YOU want to be. A person that is fun, funny and pleasant to be around for ANYONE. NOT just your W.

This is a tough thing to 'get'. Trust me, I struggled with it for a very long time, and probably never quite got it completely down. But I got better at it.

W + OM = You are not a part of her life except for kids and financial necessities.

Necessary contact = You showing her that you are that great guy. Because you ARE. Not because you are pretending to be for HER.

2. Because my wife lives in a boarding house, a lot of her time with D8 will be in our home. If I can manage the dynamics of this (not get dragged into arguments or be detached enough not to be hurt), is this a good idea or should I consider other options? (none comes to mind right now)

Tough one Arsene. And a dynamic that I did not have to deal with.

IMVHO, I think that you should let her time with D be her time. You should politely make yourself scarce. Coming over to your home and pretending to be a happy little family, again IMO, should not be an option for her. She is destroying her family. Pretending that she is not is only putting off the inevitable if she continues on this path.

But you have to do what is right for YOU Arsene. With your D's interests very much in the equation. No one can answer that for you.

3. I never initiate contact unless it is important and re: logistics/D8, however, I have in the past offered subtle invitations to join D8 and I in our activities, which wife has readily accepted. Is this not a form of pursuing? I have to admit that as much as I do it for D8, a part of me also hopes to rekindle in W the family spirit which we had in the past. I must add that I never have any expectations when I invite her.

I'd stop this ASAP. See my answers to questons 1 and 2.

It is pursuing. And it is keeping your W from seeing the consequences of her actions. I am not suggesting that you punish her by stopping this pursuing behavior. I'm suggesting that you let her see what she is doing to your family. Stop pretending. Dinners with you and daughter are probably not going to rekindle that family spirit. She is running from that. Let her run. Let her see that what she is running to isn't nearly as fulfilling as what she is running from.

4. OM is not on my mind at all. I have been able to totally forget about him (or at least chase any thought of him that comes to mind). As I am starting to find my way through the music scene in this city, it seems very likely I would bump into him, either with or without W (as just happened with Suppo). How should I behave when/if I do? Does this change if he's with W? Does this change if I'm with D8?

Again, very personal call. You may have read about my little encounter with OM back in either late May or early June of 2011. I thought that I did well by not beating him with a tire iron. But I was not polite. And I will tell you, confronting him and telling him what I thought of him was the right move for me. I have no regrets about that whatsoever. In fact, I feel very good that he knows exactly where he stands with me. AND, that he did nothing to defend himself or his actions.

IMO, what OM is doing is NOT right. He is messing with another man's W. He is messing with a married woman. A married woman who has a young child. I have absolutely no sympathy or care about someone who is doing that. (yes, I realize the hypocrisy re my friend if you've read my moral dilemma thread). But this is how I truly feel.

Again, personal call. I do think that you need to always set a good example for your daughter regardless though.

5. On the same issue, I am also bound to bump into many of her friends (musicians and singers) and not knowing what W may have told them about our sitch and about me, how should I behave if/when this happens? It's to be noted that people in this country have a different sense of "small talk" and that they are very forthcoming with personal questions.

For me, I talked about it when I felt like it. If I didn't, I politely said that it was something that I didn't want to talk about, or I quickly changed the subject. Whatever is best for you and your emotional health.

I chose to never say anything bad about my W. In fact, I defended her when someone would be critical, even in the slightest. I did this for two reasons, 1) I love her and I don't like hearing anyone say anything badly about her, and 2) I knew that I wanted her to come back to me and that meant also coming back to my friends and family. If she felt like they looked at her negatively, I felt that that might make her even more hesitant to come back. That was validated multiple times during our sitch where W would tell me that she was not looking forward to seeing my friends or family bc she thought that they thought she was a bad person. Things would have been all that much worse, if I had fed that fire.

Keep the road home paved and smooth as they say.

6. I find it difficult to assert myself on certain things such as what I have done over the last few days i.e.: Ask her to leave so I can go to sleep, Ask her to take her stuff with her so she won't wake me up when she comes to fetch it, ask her not to expose D8 to OM, etc... I find that I'm often graver/sterner than I want to be when I ask her to do things which "go against what I would really like" or which "ask her to do something which I think she would dislike". Is this bad? How can I change this?

I don't know if it is bad per se. I certainly understand it and did a lot of that myself. I think that ideally you want to ask for what you need and want. Politely, kindly, and with love. You cannot control how she reacts to your requests. And I ultimately figured out that my W was not going to D me over things like you are talking about. If she was going to D me, it was going to be because of the previous 7 1/2 years that we spent together and all of the hurt that came from that.

7. "I love my W without conditions... so accept what she does, feels and thinks with the knowledge that she is on her own journey." I do not accept everything she does (OM). I accept that there is nothing I can do about it. Is this the same thing?

Not sure if I understand the form of the question, but I think so. Loving someone unconditionally does NOT mean that you accept everything that they do or all of their choices.

In fact, it doesn't even mean that you have to choose to have them in your life. You can love them from afar when they are doing something that hurts you, or causes you emotional harm. You are loving them, but protecting yourself.

As comparison, you love your D, but I'm willing to bet my last dollar that you won't agree with, or even approve of, every choice that she makes in her life. YOu will still love her, won't you?

8. As my W seems to be a bit erratic in her behaviour (to say the least), it's difficult for me to gauge what is working and what isn't. Furthermore, if we are really doing this for ourselves, why should it matter whether it is affecting our S? I truly believe that the changes I ma making are making me a better man. Nonetheless, I do want my W to reconsider her decision so how can I see if it's working considering her erratic behaviour?

Some questions just can't be answered Arsene. The best that I can do is tell you what I did. I watched for small positive signs and progress. I journaled about them here. Generally, I think that the positive signs that I saw were indeed there. But things did not progress as QUICKLY as I had hoped or expected.

Truegritter told me a couple of times that "the turkey is not ready to come out of the oven". He was trying to tell me that my W was not truly ready to reconcile even though I could would have swore to him that he was wrong. That she indeed was. But see, I was seeing all of these positive things going on, and having EXPECTATIONS.

Expectations are the killer. Throw them out. Use the small steps, the small positive signs, as fuel to keep your fight up. BUT, they don't mean jack until your W decides that she wants to work on her M. If/when she does, you will know.

And of course your W is erratic. I think that this process is ultimately more difficult on the WAS than it is on LBS. They usually don't really know what they want, even if they are convinced that they do. Almost all of them are erratic.

I read a post from a long ago poster here to view your W the same as the crazy homeless person babbling on the side of the street. Kind of funny in a way. Kind of sad in a way. But I do think that they are usually very lost and all over the board as a result.

9. I know many vets have different idea of what constitutes "cake eating". Denver's definition of "doormat" as posted in his plan of action, says:


I am a doormat IF ... I do something that I do not want to do bc I believe W expects it or will be upset with me about if I don't do it. I am NOT a doormat if I CHOOSE to do or not do something bc it is what I WANT to do.

Not mine, but the definition that I adopted because I came to believe it. I think that either came from Truegritter or Jackthreebeans.

Is "cake eating" the same? I allow her to "cake eat" if "I do something that I do not want to do bc I believe W expects it or will be upset with me about if I don't do it" or if I expect her to do something or act differently in return?
If not, what is "cake eating"? is it simply W coming to me to try to fulfill (or get) something that she can't get out of OM? Is it W taking advantage of me still being in love with her? If I only do what I choose to do, in a loving way, am I not still allowing "cake eating"?

Tough questions Arsene. I don't think that there are black and white answers to many of these.

IMO, she is cake eating if she is taking advantage of the fact that you do not want to upset her, and that you want to please her. So she uses THAT to get something from you while, at the same time, either getting something also from OM, and/or just living it up and avoiding her responsibilities as a W. Ultimately, I think that it comes down to getting two things that should be diametrically opposed to one another.

She should not get the benefits of being your W, while also getting to go out and live it up with OM.

Drawing the line, or even seeing the line, is the hard part. I don't think that there is any instruction manual on this. You're going to have to figure this one out on your own somewhat.