Dealing with Anger

[Arsene]

Hi everyone,

I figure my previous thread is probably about to be locked and besides, I needed a new title for what I'm about to say so here we go.

Here are the links to my previous threads:


1st thread - http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...078#Post2268078

2nd thread - http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...709#Post2269709

3rd thread - http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2275638&page=1

[Arsene]

Thanks 25, Bond, Rough,CB, Denver, Starsky, Suppo, MrsD,Carnac, and the other members of the Freshmen Class of 2012,

As you can see in the title of my new thread, I guess that I still have a big problem with Anger. It' s interesting because I really thought I was over it. The anger, that is. Three months ago, it's the first thing I set to change about my behaviour and in many noticeable ways, i have succeeded, however, it seems that you all read much more from my words here than I think I am communicating. You are either all wrong, meaning I'm the only one to be right, or I have to open my eyes and face the music. I'll go for door number 2.

I've been thinking a lot over the last few hours or so about what I've read in your replies and I spoke about it today in my meditation class and I can see it. The anger is still there, within me. I might not express it in the same vocal way I used to but it's in everything I do and think. In everything I write in these pages. It's set deep within my heart and it's controlling the way I look at things.

25, you are right, Denver never said anything negative about his lovely W, no matter how he felt about what he was being put through. Denver, you are an extraordinarily strong man and I have the utmost respect for what you did and HOW you did it. I wish I could stand here and tell you that I've never had negative thoughts about my W, this woman I claim to love more than life itself, but I'd be lying to you, the same way I've been lying to myself about not being angry anymore.

I'm here now. I can see that I'm not as strong as I thought I was. The pain and frustration I feel and try to ignore as much as I can are turning to anger as I keep refusing to acknowledge the truth about my situation. Like the quote from the movie : "Bands of Brothers" which Starsky mentioned somewhere here,"The sooner you accept that (you are already dead), the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function".

I re-read a lot of my own thread, as recommended by many of you recently and realized that I've been refusing to accept my responsibility in this and trying to pass the blame on to where I perceived the pain came from. My W. I have judged her and criticized her actions, her thoughts and everything she does. I have named her "disease" by labeling it MLC. I have disrespected the woman I profess to love and much worse.

I have insulted her, tarnished her name and slandered her in front of my friends and supporters, for what? To get their sympathy? Their pity? Their support? To make me feel like I am the wounded one? I don't really know why but I suspect it's somewhere in that list. I have done something I have done all my life, in most of my relationships with friends and lovers. I have stepped on her in order to elevate myself. This is the ultimate act of selfishness, another "sin" which I have in the past ascribed to my W.

I apologize to you all for this, as I can not apologize to her for the time being.

I hope that this is the beginning of the end for the anger which is still deep within me. I will be vigilant. I will focus on myself as my own faults are sufficiently important to keep me occupied.

My W can take car of her own faults at her own time.

Thank you all for your patience, time and kindness. Thanks you for keeping me on my toes, for keeping that mirror in front of me.

[suppo]

Arsene,

You know that we are all here to support you, and part of that support will be positive motivation, while some of that support will be pumching in the balls when you lay down some counter-intuitive statements on your posts.

I expect all who read my posts to do the same for me as well! I am am in no way an expert in avenue of life, especially relationships. But I am very intuitive at reading between the lines on many many things. Just wish I could do it with myself more often...LoL

Now that you have journaled and recognized what needs to be done, the question that I and many others will propose is:

What are you now going to do about it????

[Carnac]

Arsene: As you know I too deal with anger and even though im dealing with a therapist on it, I still really don't know where it comes from. Have you read the His needs her needs? If not then you should, and if you have you should read one of the companion books its called Love Busters. Im sure that like most of us you didnt do some things that you should have done in your marriage, but I have come to realize that it probably wasn't so much what I didnt do, as what I DID do.

We have an engineer here at work that always said you could wipe out ten attaboys with one o sh!t. Thats what Love Busters talks about, avoiding things that push your spouse away, sure you need to do things that bring your spouse close, but if you can't avoid pushing them away it doesnt matter how much your trying to bring them close.

And anger drives people away quickly and specifically I think it drives woman away in droves. Woman are more gentle and thoughtful than men most of the time so they don't understand anger and quite honestly it scares them. My wife said she was scared of me.....i didnt understand that at all b/c there's no way I would EVER touch my wife, and she even said she knew that I wouldnt, but she also said that I got angry so often she was worried about saying anything to me for fear it would make me mad. And then I did one of two or three things...passive agressive ignoring, punishing by bringing up old stuff or yelling.

Anger in itself isnt a bad thing, its what we do with it that is bad. Im slowly learning that most of my anger comes from MY expectations of others and how they SHOULD act. Quite honestly these people dont even know how I think they should act, and really what gives me the right to expect any other human to act in any way I have tried to force others through anger to act the way that I think they SHOULD act. Its absurd...thus you end up like me being told your controlling and angry and don't think that your either one until you do a little introspection and realize that your absolutely both.

Deal with your anger, you can overcome it and when you do you'll have all that time and energy you put into being angry to channel into better things.

[Mrs D]

Arsene. Great post. Now stick with it. Reread this post over and over if you have to. The first step that you had to do is realize you have the problem with anger. Good job. Now look further inside you and work on what is hurting you. What is making you vulnerable. And work on that. You also see that you were very negative with your W. Work on that. Turn this into something positive. We all know you can do it my friend! You are making great strides in everything you are doing. Build on it. Happy Thursday!

[25yearsmlc]

right or wrong, justified or not, or simply practical

the first reason I came up with to work on MY ANGER, was not that "it was the right thing to do". I felt "right" to be angry.

But it was NOT helping me or my cause

and I realized when I was w/my d's, they were not getting all of me or my focus. I was far too preoccupied with MY pain to be fully present for them...at a time when they needed me more.

So, putting them first helped me start on letting go of anger...and knowing that the anger only made my h happier to be gone.

I refused to fuel his justifications for leaving, by showing the anger to him.

see if any of this^^ helps.

[Arsene]

Arsene,
Now that you have journaled and recognized what needs to be done, the question that I and many others will propose is:

What are you now going to do about it????

Thanks for being here Suppo. I have been thinking about this a lot. I guess I need some plan of action and it funny because last night, I was reading Denver's sitch (I'm a bit past the halfway point) and I reached that point where he himself has some sort of epiphany and comes up with an action plan.

For some reasons, I've always related to Denver for a few reasons. The first thing that caught my attention was that his W is also a singer and a teacher who was having an A with a fellow band member. Reading on, I noticed that what he'd done was similar to what I've done and the way he thinks, his strong belief in his marriage, his vows and his W, are very much like the way I think (or at least thought I did till my own epiphany - and hope I can live up to, now). Also, some of the things his W did and said are very similar to what my W has done and said.

Well, I read his plan of action and it rang a bell. It seems to me that everything in there makes sense to me and it goes along the lines of what I would like to do, perhaps with some slight modification, should any of you want to help me tweak it. I hope Denver is not going to come after me for copyright infringement . Actually, I wouldn't mind hearing from you, Denver, to let me know how it went and if you'd recommend following it as is.

This is how it goes (sorry, it's a bit long)

1. OM does not matter. He wins if I let him. That means if I let his presence in my situation get to me, he wins. I cannot show W that I am bothered if she tells me that she has or is going to have contact with OM. I cannot control whether or not W chooses to have contact with him. I need to accept that. He wins ONLY IF I LET HIM.

2. Back off - Reduce amount of initiating contact with W. Don't always answer her phone calls immediately. Don't always answer her text messages right away. Don't jump to hang out with her all of the time.

3. Continue to show W new me - Continue to listen and validate W. Continue to be attentive and loving. Without telling her that I love her. Continue to actually actively listen to what W talks about. Continue to be fun to be around... be in a good mood... don't be a downer... be available to W and SS, but not too available. If needed, fake it till I make it. Act AS IF.

4. Do not talk about OM. Do not bring it up. Ignore it. see #1. Under no circumstances talk negatively about OM. Do not put them on the same team. Do not put W in defensive posture about OM.

5. Do not talk about R unless W brings it up. And if she does, THEN do way more listening than talking. listen and validate, listen and validate.

6. Eliminate expectations. Don't be upset if W does not invite me to do things. do not be upset if she declines invites from me. If I do something nice for her, do it bc I want to, not bc I have an expectation of something or some reaction in return.

7. Do not be doormat - I am a doormat IF ... I do something that I do not want to do bc I believe W expects it or will be upset with me about if I don't do it. I am NOT a doormat if I CHOOSE to do or not do something bc it is what I WANT to do.

8. Lovingly detach to a degree - self protection mechanism. For numbers 1, 4 and 6. Focus, focus, focus. I cannot control my W, her decisions, her actions, thoughts or feelings. I control only me. BUT, I love my W without conditions... so accept what she does, feels and thinks with the knowledge that she is on her own journey. None of it can kill me... I will be okay regardless. AND, I do not have to stay in this unless I choose to. I have a parachute that I can use at any time.

9. Start to GAL again. My life cannot be all about my W and SS. GAL to make myself happy and to create some mystery about myself.

10. Be the better man. I am better than the OM... no question. But that is not what is most important. I must be better than the old me. Be focused on improving myself, how I react to things, how I live my life on a daily basis. Be happy.

11. Continue to create confusion in my W about her initial decision. When my W left, she was DONE. DBing has allowed me to get her to a point of confusion on that initial decision. This has, and continues to be, a good thing. I do this by continuing with my 180's and being the better man.

12. Be Patient. Patience is a virtue. I am learning it and it will be useful to me in the future regardless of how this turns out.

13. Time is still my friend. Even though I have been knocked down the mountain a bit, my W is still closer to reconciling than I ever thought that she would be back in November, December and January. I am still married and no paperwork has even been filed.

14. IF NEEDED - CLOSE THE GATES nicely and lovingly, and without being a martyr. I must continue being patient and giving this time. And I must take advantage of this time to show my W more of the new me... she has seen if for 3+ months. She needs to see more of it. BUT, the time may come when I need to take the new me away from her. When she must be forced to see what her life will be like without the NEW me... This conversation must be done nicely and with love. Merely that her indecision has gotten to the point that it is not fair to me, OM, or to SS. That I will now be taking myself out of the equation. That I will still be here if and when she decides that she wants to commit to me and M, but that I don't know for how long.


An other part of my plan is to go on living the best way I can. In fact, I used to have a mental timeline which would make me reconsider my actions around December and I will still keep that in mind but for the time being, the lease on my new house is for 2 years and the life I'm planning for myself could easily keep me here for that long so why not? 2 years of me living a good life with my D8, having lots of fun and doing lots of exciting, interesting things while W comes around every so often to visit D8 and see the person I am.

This week, I've already been to my first Rotary Club meeting and I think I can get into that. I've been told that money is not all I can give but I can also give my time so it would be a double bonus. Besides, the meetings are held in English and the local language so it'll allow me to learn it even more.

I've also got an invitation to next week's meeting of the local chapter of the ToastMasters (Something to do with public speaking in English) and I was told by the president that they would appreciate my input as a native speaker.

Next week, I'll also be meeting a member of a 4X4 club for owners of my type of car. They have rallies and camping trips for the family and there is one going on next weekend.

During this extended 2-year timeline, W will hopefully find herself and figure out what she wants out of life. OM probably won't be around anymore (although another one might be ) and in any event, it shouldn't matter because I'm not going to focus on him. Also, in 2 years of living a good life, it might not matter so much whether or not my W returns home, although for the time being, I don't want to think about that.

BTW, with regards to my managing my anger, I've been keeping a sharp eye out for any behaviour which doesn't come out of love.

What do this sound like so far? It sounds like a tall order, doesn't it?

[Arsene]

Thanks Carnac for your time.

Have you read the His needs her needs? If not then you should, and if you have you should read one of the companion books its called Love Busters. Im sure that like most of us you didnt do some things that you should have done in your marriage, but I have come to realize that it probably wasn't so much what I didnt do, as what I DID do.

I haven't yet but it is on mylist of books to buy on my next amazonian expedition (I still haven't paid my friend for the expedited order of DR).

My wife said she was scared of me.....i didnt understand that at all b/c there's no way I would EVER touch my wife, and she even said she knew that I wouldnt, but she also said that I got angry so often she was worried about saying anything to me for fear it would make me mad. And then I did one of two or three things...passive agressive ignoring, punishing by bringing up old stuff or yelling.

Anger in itself isnt a bad thing, its what we do with it that is bad. Im slowly learning that most of my anger comes from MY expectations of others and how they SHOULD act. Quite honestly these people dont even know how I think they should act, and really what gives me the right to expect any other human to act in any way I have tried to force others through anger to act the way that I think they SHOULD act. Its absurd...thus you end up like me being told your controlling and angry and don't think that your either one until you do a little introspection and realize that your absolutely both.

That sounds exactly like my sitch and my thoughts about it.

Gee Carnac, reading about all of this is making me wonder if we're not all out of the same mold. and our Ws as well, I guess.

[Arsene]

Arsene. Great post. Now stick with it. Reread this post over and over if you have to. The first step that you had to do is realize you have the problem with anger. Good job. Now look further inside you and work on what is hurting you. What is making you vulnerable. And work on that. You also see that you were very negative with your W. Work on that. Turn this into something positive. We all know you can do it my friend! You are making great strides in everything you are doing. Build on it. Happy Thursday!

Yeah MrsD. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff yet to be uncovered but I like where I am today. I want to be where I am today so I can focus and move forward, towards a better me. The kind of me that anyone would be glad to spend their life with but who wouldn't need anyone to do so. I want to find who I really am inside. I know it's more than what I have been so far, no matter how much I used to be proud of that person. I'm on it MrsD.

[Arsene]

Hi 25,

It does help. In fact, every thing you have ever said to me on this site has helped and I hope that I'm now where I should be. the next step (living up to my plan) is not going to be easy but I'm confident that I can manage. I know you commented on Denver's plan back then and I'll go through your comments in the next few days. Please feel free to take a swing at me if you think I'm reverting to that selfish, manipulative, inconsiderate pr1@k I've been.


In my present case though, it's more than the fact that it doesn't help my cause and I don't want to justify W leaving me. It' s about not being who I want to be. I've gone through life being very proud of the image I had of myself and now, I've just realised that the image was just a mask, hiding who I truly was inside. I want to be proud of me again, but I want to be proud of the real me, not just what my image of me is. I guess all my life I blamed others (friends, family, lovers) for moving away from me. How could they? I was such a swell guy!! Well, I guess they couldn't have all been wrong. It was me. All along.

On the bright side, I'm 46, healthier than ever, and I've got a plan for a bright future, which doesn't include this ugly baggage I've been dragging along all those years.