I have not asked her why. Should I? I am trying not to ask her anything and detach. Maybe I should ask her if she has someone she can recommend for me locally? Regardless - something else happened:
When she got home I went out to play pool and she came out a joined me. She actually mentioned inviting another couple over to play pool with us. I was feeling really positive until my wife went over to visit a neighbor and also to send my daughter home so I could take her to gymnastics. I had to go into her purse to get the epi pen (for my D allergy) and I saw my wife's notes about our marriage. Wish I never found them. They were very negative and I think they were from her session on Monday.
She wrote the effects of leaving and the consisted of how they would effect the kids (D9/S7), possibility of new family units or no family units, finances, being alone. Effects of staying are that my changes are only temporary and I will revert to how I was, fear of settling (for me it seems), scared sex life will not return (she it not attracted to me anymore), not setting a good example of a healthy marriage for the kids. She also wrote that she wants to make some changes in herself and not be dependent on a man financially and to have more self confidence. To be happy she needs the kids to be happy and she wants to be loved and accepted for who she is, to find passion again. To be desired. She wants to be with someone who she looks forward to being with in the future.
Writing from memory but I am pretty sure it is all there.
WE both want the same things for the most part. I have explained to her she will be fine financially if we divorced (before the DR I did this), maybe not at the same level, but she probably would not have to work until the kids go to college. WOW. That was hard to read and it is making the 180 so hard. I just want to tell her these changes are permanent, I do desire her and I want to get the passion back too. From what I read it seems she does not see that happening with us. I am not even three weeks into my 180 and this is tough. So tough. It will be hard to not talk to her about this stuff. That is what I should do, right?
Sounds like you should. so maybe bring it up next time she shows that she doesn't like it.
"Effects of staying are that my changes are only temporary and I will revert to how I was, fear of settling (for me it seems), scared sex life will not return (she it not attracted to me anymore), not setting a good example of a healthy marriage for the kids. She also wrote that she wants to make some changes in herself and not be dependent on a man financially and to have more self confidence. To be happy she needs the kids to be happy and she wants to be loved and accepted for who she is, to find passion again. To be desired."
This is actually pure gold. These are what (in your W's mind) she wants. Now it's up to you to show her that you are all those things and more. Don't get discouraged by her not thinking that your changes will last. The fact is that she's noticing them.
Right now her depression is not allowing her to see anything clearly. You have to outshine it.
Here is something that another poster (who saved his M) sent to me a long time ago.
Be the Lighthouse.
Your spouse is in huge conflict....
The good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...
The competition we believe that exists with the OP is a shallow, empty reflection of God's light in this world....
It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush.
Their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again and again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong....they do not like what they are doing....
Their actions towards you, the children, the OP and themselves keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions with real dept and truth.
All they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life....yet the filling is way to fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down, regardless of whom is next to them....
They are the living cliche of...no matter where you go to hide, there YOU are.
He or she is lost to themselves.
And you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home. Even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that.
You become the lighthouse. You fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary.
Just visualize yourself as a lighthouse.
You offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get. You invite them towards it, let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way.
They are untrustable right now, but you know that. So they can't hurt you right now. They will spend great energy to convince others differently, but you know better.
You show them the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions. Set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives, without love busting.
Offer alternatives that let them see the children, but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them. You fill the childrens lives with stability. They deserve it and need it more than anything else.
Do not discuss or power struggle with them on irrational movements. Seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly.
Your spouse is very lonely and sad right now, but that is OK. No one can stay very long in that chaos..it is wearisome to the soul..
And remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos and eventually they will see that you are the only one who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most.
Be the lighthouse...
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Ok. This is where the 180 is so hard. I could not sleep last night very well thinking about this. If she wants passion and to be desired should I not show it to her now if that what she wrote on Monday? Is it possible for the 180 to be to much? I do not want to miss an opportunity but the hard part is knowing what the response will be. I said I love you to both the kids this morning before I left and then I told my wife have a great day. I fear she may be thinking I do not love her especially when one of her complaints is that I have treated the kids better than her. Crazy thoughts. It really is like walking on egg shells.
Since she seems to be fixated on me not having a local counselor I am going to ask her if there is someone she would recommend locally. Ideally she would have me see her counselor. We will see.
Ok. This is where the 180 is so hard. I could not sleep last night very well thinking about this. If she wants passion and to be desired should I not show it to her now if that what she wrote on Monday?
My situation is so similar to yours, and this is something I've faced as well. Really you can't detach while also demonstrating passion and desire. Personally I decided to pull back from the "passion and desire" stuff because more than anything that's pressure, and pressure is the last thing she needs right now. Work on the baby steps for now, that can come later.
Originally Posted By: Sam1313
I said I love you to both the kids this morning before I left and then I told my wife have a great day. I fear she may be thinking I do not love her especially when one of her complaints is that I have treated the kids better than her.
I think you mentioned you've been reading the 5 Love Languages, so you already know how to show love without saying "ILY". Follow Michele's advise and DO NOT say "ILY". It's pressure. Words are cheap, actions mean a lot more right now. Show her you love her through your actions. Personally even though my wife's love language is "words of affirmation" I've been demonstrating love in all 5 languages. Also I avoid situations like you mentioned where you're saying ILY to the kids and there's an awkward spot where you deliberately don't say it to your wife. I try to work it out to where I can say it to the kids when the wife is out of the room or far enough away where it's not evident that I'm deliberately avoiding saying it to her.
My wife has no reason to worry because she knows that I will be there and she is trapped in negativity and really does not have to make a choice right now. I need to get on with things and if she decides to rejoin this marriage than great. Me hanging out at the house all the time is not helping.
What I would like to know now is how should someone respond when they are detaching and the wife then wants to work things out. I just want to be prepared. I think if I am not I might be overly enthusiastic and that might not be good.
Thanks again to everyone for their help. I think I got it now.
In her mixed up state right now, she might have wanted passion, etc. BEFORE, but not now. Keep things light and fun. Right now you have to be the light that shines through her fog. Show her how enjoyment can be had.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
You are right MR. Bond. Right now it seems that she hates/despises me and at the very least does not like me. The truth is the person that she is right now is very hard to be with and/or show passion too when it comes down to it.
Hi AnotherStander - I have read your posts - I think at the core we are going through the same thing, trying to keep a wife from walking away. I wish you the best with your situation. Hang in there man. Hope you are stronger then me. Had some tough days lately.
I did read the 5LL and her's is quality time but her mindset is so negative right now it is hard, for her at least, to enjoy herself when we are together. That is a good idea with the ILY. I want to say them to my wife but they did not get a response, or worse I got a glared at, so I stopped. I will not stop saying them to the kids. If I were to really go hard core with DR/DB I would not do anything right now with her because when we are alone the reaction has generally be negative. Makes it tough.
The scary thing is that I am seeing a side of her that is starting to make me questions things. The reasons that I have really loved her have come in to question. I always trusted her 100% but after the EA that she wanted to turn into a real affair and got turned down that has been hard. I always thought she was a great if not excellent mother but seeing her lately has made me question that. I was shocked when right after she told me she wanted to separate - I explained to her how I was having a hard time even thinking about being away from the kids - she told me I could have full custody. I just could never imagine her even thinking that. She has never been a good housekeeper but now she has really let everything go. And because the house is a mess she will not let the kids have friends over so they suffer. She has been snapping at the kids a lot to the point that I have brought it to her attention a few times. Regarding me, her comments, if that was all someone was to hear, would make me out to be a monster. When our kids were born she became a stay at home mom and I worked my butt off (70+ hours a week was about right) and now she looks back and I was an inattentive father back then. She loves to spend money and now that does not matter that I have worked hard to provide that to her. We got into an argument over sex on our wedding day because she withheld sex from me for 6-8 weeks (not sure) before the wedding (to make her more desirable she said) and when she told me on our wedding day about it I was upset. I walked down the aisle thinking my wife was not attracted to me and I did not understand how she could put me through that. Now I am some horrible person that ruined her wedding day because all she remembers is the argument and not the reason for it. I think in any marriage you could take snapshots of moments, string them together, leave out the other side, and make someone look horrible. If I had to describe my wife right now it would be moody, one-sided (unfair), not that involved as a mother, lazy and selfish (materialistic) and I am afraid that I am going to fall out of love with her if this goes on to long. The person that she is right now is not desirable at all. I am amazed at reading some of the posts and seeing how people have been at it for a years. Wow. I know deep down I could not make it as long as others on here. I love my wife more than anything and I pray she is in some dark spot and that she figures it out and gets back involved in this marriage. If it were not for the kids I do not know if we would make it. I would go through hell and back for these kids. For my wife too really, at least the person I was married too. If this is the person she is changing in to we are in trouble. Big big trouble. Icky thoughts today. But...
I am going to continue to be the light that shines through the fog. I am going to show her how enjoyment can be had.
The sad thing is that this threatened separation/divorce really woke something in me. She was right in that I needed to change. I realize that I was not a good husband. I love the new me. I love what I have become and what I am becoming. There is so much more to life then I ever imagined. I know that if my wife would join me on really working on our relationship we would have an amazing life. Sad. Sad that we seemed to have crossed paths and may never get back on the same one all because she is living in the past. God this is tough.
You are right MR. Bond. Right now it seems that she hates/despises me and at the very least does not like me. The truth is the person that she is right now is very hard to be with and/or show passion too when it comes down to it.
Hi AnotherStander - I have read your posts - I think at the core we are going through the same thing, trying to keep a wife from walking away. I wish you the best with your situation. Hang in there man. Hope you are stronger then me. Had some tough days lately.
I did read the 5LL and her's is quality time but her mindset is so negative right now it is hard, for her at least, to enjoy herself when we are together. That is a good idea with the ILY. I want to say them to my wife but they did not get a response, or worse I got a glared at, so I stopped. I will not stop saying them to the kids. If I were to really go hard core with DR/DB I would not do anything right now with her because when we are alone the reaction has generally be negative. Makes it tough.
The scary thing is that I am seeing a side of her that is starting to make me questions things. The reasons that I have really loved her have come in to question. I always trusted her 100% but after the EA that she wanted to turn into a real affair and got turned down that has been hard. I always thought she was a great if not excellent mother but seeing her lately has made me question that. I was shocked when right after she told me she wanted to separate - I explained to her how I was having a hard time even thinking about being away from the kids - she told me I could have full custody. I just could never imagine her even thinking that. She has never been a good housekeeper but now she has really let everything go. And because the house is a mess she will not let the kids have friends over so they suffer. She has been snapping at the kids a lot to the point that I have brought it to her attention a few times. Regarding me, her comments, if that was all someone was to hear, would make me out to be a monster. When our kids were born she became a stay at home mom and I worked my butt off (70+ hours a week was about right) and now she looks back and I was an inattentive father back then. She loves to spend money and now that does not matter that I have worked hard to provide that to her. We got into an argument over sex on our wedding day because she withheld sex from me for 6-8 weeks (not sure) before the wedding (to make her more desirable she said) and when she told me on our wedding day about it I was upset. I walked down the aisle thinking my wife was not attracted to me and I did not understand how she could put me through that. Now I am some horrible person that ruined her wedding day because all she remembers is the argument and not the reason for it. I think in any marriage you could take snapshots of moments, string them together, leave out the other side, and make someone look horrible. If I had to describe my wife right now it would be moody, one-sided (unfair), not that involved as a mother, lazy and selfish (materialistic) and I am afraid that I am going to fall out of love with her if this goes on to long. The person that she is right now is not desirable at all. I am amazed at reading some of the posts and seeing how people have been at it for a years. Wow. I know deep down I could not make it as long as others on here. I love my wife more than anything and I pray she is in some dark spot and that she figures it out and gets back involved in this marriage. If it were not for the kids I do not know if we would make it. I would go through hell and back for these kids. For my wife too really, at least the person I was married too. If this is the person she is changing in to we are in trouble. Big big trouble. Icky thoughts today. But...
I am going to continue to be the light that shines through the fog. I am going to show her how enjoyment can be had.
The sad thing is that this threatened separation/divorce really woke something in me. She was right in that I needed to change. I realize that I was not a good husband. I love the new me. I love what I have become and what I am becoming. There is so much more to life then I ever imagined. I know that if my wife would join me on really working on our relationship we would have an amazing life. Sad. Sad that we seemed to have crossed paths and may never get back on the same one all because she is living in the past. God this is tough.
Sounds familiar. Their mind switches against you when they are with someone else, and this someone else can even be a same sex friend who has a strongly opposing viewpoint to you. So you become the enemy. She's not thinking this through, it's the human mind doing it automatically to protect itself. It has to rationallize itself. Believe me, if you told me about it I couild not understand until it happened to me.
The "monster" they turn into, because their mind is making you a discombobulating fool who can't do anything right, is unattractive, sneaky, etc, etc may not reverse for very many years.
She's embarrassed and knows "your right", and she's probably a red-hot poker at you right now. As most of us on DB forums can attest, there is no amount of pleading, grovelling, begging, getting on the knees to convince the WAS otherwise. Their mind will protect itself and not listen.
You are left with an option. You can take really good care of yourself.
Some things I have noticed.
1. When you ignore them like a selfish spouse who has too much to do, they start taking interest. 2. Pursuit is any attempt to please, placate, say the right combination of words to make them "wake up", it doesn't work like this. 3. When you have another person or simply a large amount of options, they will want to "reclaim what's theirs", but they will give the minimum amount to do so ( crumbs ), and once they have you it's back to business.
So you are left with taking care of yourself, not communicating or being around the "new her" as much as you can, making her come to you by being successful and confident in your endeavours.
It's just some thoughts from being around this place for so long.
