can Turtles still stand?

[zig]

so, update.......


i called h and said that my mom had made this invitation and we needed to decide if s could go since it was labor day weekend.

he wanted to know why i was asking him since i had s that weekend anyway - and i said because we would have to leave on thursday and i knew he had plans.

that i didn't expect him to give me an answer this minute but if he could by tomorrow since i was a bit concerned about getting tickets this late (actually he pointed that out first)

then he outright asked me - is your mom plotting and planning? i would totally understand if she was - i'm just wondering - he actually asked in a very relaxed way after saying - i don't mean to take this conversation to a negative level... and that's the first time there was any reffering to what he had planned.

i said - h, i'm not plotting - if i had been i would have told s about it first because you know he would have insisted we go no matter what. that's why i called you first, so you can decide

i told him then how we had had that camping trip planned that fell through and s was very disappointed - and that - i hadn't brought it up during lunch because i didn't want to manipulate the situation - that i only found out it had fallen through afterwards

first he said he'd call me back later to decide, but after i said - this is the first time my mom has ever invited s to do something fun together, and i haven't been able to take him on a trip all summer because of all the plans made (basically by h and his parents)

he then suddenly said - i don't need to think about this - he can definitely go.

then he went circling a bit - saying that he hadn't planned anything really for that thursday and why did i think that, blah blah...

i shifted the conversation and encouraged his greatness as a father telling him how s was beaming yesterday with his phone call. he seemed pleased and said something like why haven't i called him all these months...

then we talked about his opening which he was driving to and i said- wish you had told us about it s would have loved to be there to support you. tell us about the next one - he hemmed and hawed and then said reluctantly - well it's on the friday of labor day weekend - no wonder - coz ow will be going with him.....

oh well

called mil to tell her that she could stop fretting about that thursday and she was very relieved. and then said - well you have your problem solved , i stll have mine.

i asked what she meant - and she replied - well he's going to make me meet her.

i said mil, when i told you that i told h that if he changed his mind he would dump s on me on that thursday, you instantly said - i hope your'e going to tell him you have plans.

well it got me thinking - he'll come to you next - are you going to have plans too?

and she said - oh my gosh- i keep accusing you of indulging and enabling him, but you're right i would have said yes.

i said - i'm copying and pasting some posts form my thread form last night about all of this. maybe they could help you in your dilemma as they have helped me. and so i sent her the conversation that took place last night...

GAL'ing tonight - we are going to the BUSKER BALL

very very excited. mil called and gave us free tickets for tonight

off to get dolled up, ya know

s is in heaven - i hardly said international lego festival and he interrupted me and said - you know we are going right??

did i ever mention that his br is basically a sea of legos....

zig

[keep_going]

(((zig)))

Simply amazing!
I am so happy for you and your S. You will have a blast!

Thanks for sharing so much of yourself with the rest of us. Reading your thread is always a source of inspiration and positivity for me.

[ces67]

Hey Zig, glad to see some things falling into place. My s is nearly 14 and there are STILL legos scattered all over his floor! ((Zig)) Have a good weekend.

[labug]

S(23) still gets Lego for Christmas, every year.

[needgrace]

hi zig,

i am so excited for you and for S and your trip. that sounds like so much fun! and what perfect timing, it was meant to be! and i love how you handled it with H, encouraging him as a dad.. you are amazing, sweet zig!!! ((((((((( )))))))))))

[zig]

KG, ces, ng, labug

thank you

and yes we are excited about this trip! i still have to go book the tickets

well i don't know about amazing -


i just let myself react and pretty much lost it with h 5 minutes ago!!

yes - i actually didn't try to stay very calm and told him off!!

in fact - the phrase i think that stuck out was - "you don't get to order me around - you lost that privilege!!"

i can't believe i said that!!

first thing in the morning - in a phone call he spewed, totally disregarding that i have a life too.

then walked in and ordered me to come out on the deck so "I can talk to you"

i said i don;t want to and he just made me! then when he was done "talking" i tried to say something more after we walked back in and he totally dismissed me.

and so i got extremely cool - at which point he started asking what was wrong!! so i let him know - unfortunately not very calmly - not screaming but definitely letting him know i wasn't going to tolerate this any more.

he said - well i'm saying i'm sorry and i said thanks for the apology but right now i'm still too angry. i walked out where s was standing - and h followed behind and i turned in time to see him rolling his eyes - and i'd so had enough that i said something like there's no point in adding scorn to the situation and rolling your eyes.

he had looked quite shocked when i said that he had lost the privilege to order me around!!

right now, i'm not sure where i'm at - almost bemused and a bit in shock at what i did.

i guess reading some posts earlier today - where some folks had said they lost it a couple of times during their sitches - somehow it allowed me to give myself permission to do that.

i'm thinking that i did it differently - but his old reaction of rolling his eyes - i think that's where he goes in his mind to avoid his own role in the interaction - his "there she goes again, being difficult" is giving me to understand that maybe it was more of the same on my part?

i don't know.

the stupid thing is that when he ordered me to come outside i assumed it was something about our sitch, and i frankly didn't want to hear it.

i even told him that - instead of ordering me to come out - you could have requested "zig, something came up in school with s, and i need to talk with you about it out of his hearing, would you come out on the deck with me". I actually said to him that i thought you were going to talk about the D and frankly didn't want to hear about it!

he did try to appease me when i got really cool - and i didn't want anything to do with it.

s is upset.

the teacher asked me if he could call me this afternoon - that there were some issues. and then told h when h picked s up, that s had behaved inappropriately at school today - h is insisting that it's s acting in self-defense and i'm trying to say that this behaviour comes from much deeper - emotional upset - and that we need to acknowledge it

he was all fired up and wanted us to sit s down right then - i said really calmly - h if we talk to s while we are reacting, then that's what he'll hear and will become defensive. let's get to a calm place and also let him be calm. maybe when you guys are cuddling tonight at bedtime, you could ask him what happened and what he was feeling and then we'll have some info we can work with. he actually agreed that that would be a better way to do it.

hmm...... should have taken my own goddamn advice, 8 mins later!!

i feel like childishly saying - i need a break from all this hard work

zig

[zig]

well - wonders never cease!!

In the time it took me to write the above post - h called and left a message saying:

"I am calling to make a sincere apology - you were right my apology was not sincere. I really do appreciate everything that you do for s..." and on and on - about 2 mins long!

i'm not proud of what i did - i should have stayed calmer. not just calmer but calm period.

now - i'm not sure what to do - wait a few hours and then return the call and acknowledge his effort, or call him back sooner?

I think I'll wait.

All day i have been acknowledging to myself the resentment that came up this morning during the phone call. I had called h to let him know that s had woken up with an ear infection and to decide together what we should do.

He spewed at me - old old history, before I even said anything. and i stayed super calm and just replied that I was calling to decide together with him which way we should go on this.

my resentment - if i'm honest is that I have consistently shown my change about what he spewed about for an entire year, and I don't believe I deserved that sort of response. I did stay calm, but afterwards all morning I was really struggling with this.

not because I have expectations that he will change his view of me - kept telling myself that i was that old way for 10 years, and 12 odd months is not enough time. but because he ordered me to be by the phone if s needed to come home from school, because he was not going to take calls as he needed to work.

i suppose my resentment runs much deeper - what seems to be an unwavering attitude from him that his job and work are first priority and i am always in a position to drop everything and take care of and pick up the slack - in other words for him "I am working so if s inconveniently gets ill, you will have to deal with it"

not a request - hey zig - i'm in meetings all day - would you stay by the phone in case s gets really unwell?"

and then the flip side of that: you'll never be able to work zig - i'll always have to support you!!

well how can i work if i'm always jumping up to go drop off violins, forgotten lunches etc etc

i have been thinking about this and expect to calmly deal with it over the next few weeks with my actions - sorry h, you'll have to do it, i'm really busy.

actually that is what i have been doing for the last 3 weeks and i think today was him trying to reinstate...old ways.

during his apology - half of it was about how stressed he is and was all upset about something else at work today and was still in that mode.

maybe he has improved a bit - for him to acknowledge that his behavior with me was a direct result of something else- i'd say that was a huge improvement!! maybe this awareness will lead to him thinking about how he brought his own stress into our relationship and how much it affected things

when i got mad at him - i even said - h you upset me this morning - but all day i said to myself - doesn't matter - it was early, maybe you got stressed because you had a really busy day and the sudden info that s might be ill and you have to deal with it made you more stressed. but you didn't think for a moment that i may have that same reaction too.

i hope he made that apology in front of s. he rolls his eyes at me in front of s, it would mean a lot to me if he apologized in front of s also.

hey - but no expectations about that!!

ooh a little vent!! need to go meditate!!

[needgrace]

((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))

I love that you were calm enough to suggest that the conversation with S happen when S was calm.

I am glad H apologized but...what really really bothered me when I read your posts was that he rolled his eyes in front of your S. I think he needs to apologize to S and explain how that is not the way to treat anyone, especially one's W and mother.

That was so not okay..

[ces67]

Hey Zig, don't take this wrong but your posts made me smile. Only because I've been there and done the same thing.

I remember one time my W had asked for my help on something so as I was trying to understand some things, I asked questions. She had no patience for the questions (looking back she must have thought I was questioning "her" and not what was going on) She started snapping at me and critizing. So I stood up and said 'do you really want my help or just an opportunity to insult me?" It got her attention. Not my best moment but it also didn't make the difference in our M. Life moves on.

Hope your S is OK.

[bustingout]

Hi zig,

I think it's fantastic that you were so calm as well. In fact I think you have been amazing in the past week of all of this!

I am so happy t hear about your trip.. What a lovely experience

I have to agree with NG that the rolling of the eyes in front of s is not cool from H. Of course he should know this but unfortunately our spouses at this time are not acting the way that people with consideration for others normally act. ( I had a situation today where I was carrying a bunch of bags and trying to open the car door and H just sat there..I said dude help a lady out!) anywY, I feel they are so defensive about their positions that they even stop doing the things that are just common curtesy/respectful because they are acting out.

Good that he apologised sincerely, and good for you to wait.

You are amazing zig...I do hope you know that by now. How dedicated, loving and giving you are. I hope you live that every day no matter what because that is who YOU are.

Lets go to the blanket?