To Lovingly Detach

[25yearsmlc]

And how would my D8's life be better if her mom decided to get a divorce and be automatically granted full custody? You're damn right I'm acting out of fear. Right now, it's not like I could even leave the country with D8 (not that I would be ready to put D8 through this kind of ordeal anyway), I couldn't even afford the flight out.

It's still the Idul Fitri holiday. D8 is off school til next week.

So, NOT a school night


It was an outdoor concert for the holiday season. D8 was with friends of my W the ones who drove them there. The concert probably finished at around 11:30 or so. It was in a neighbouring town 3 hours away.


So, they were 3 hours away and got home 3 hours after the concert finished, and someone else drove them there...

Sorry Bond and Arsene, but to me, this is all about control. You don't seem to have it anymore. And you want it. Your w sensed that so she didn't come in. While you may think it's guilt and that guilt helps you, I don't think so. I think she's seeing you as a pain in the butt and didn't want to be near you, and that doesn't help your cause. But I could be wrong. I just don't think the whole "guilt them" routine is very successful at this stage.

See a Lawyer if you want to try and get more control or power than you have.

I don't think a one night special event, which you knew the location of, is a big deal.

And If you knew where they were, then why'd you make such a stink? You couldn't deduce when they'd arrive? Do you know how hard (and rude) it is to have a cell phone ON at a concert?

You sure you weren't upset because you weren't invited? Felt lonely?

What's up with your anger if you knew where they were and how far it was?

As for not driving her and d8 to the concert, well I guess you made your point. I hope you check yourself for motives, but if you know it's b/c you were setting a boundary then fine.

I guess I don't see a lot of "cake eating" b/c she's in a boarding house and you have d8 & are moving into a house with D8 soon, without your w, so far. And you find cake eating every time she does something you don't like.

And you are in a country without laws that favor you. At least that's what your first L said. I like to get more than one legal opinion. So should you.





Believe me Bond. There isn't much I can do at this point, thus my frustration.

interesting comment. Think about it.

I am wiling to hear any possible course of action which would consider the above but somehow, I'm not sure there are any options. It's bloody eating me up.

Detach. Stop letting it "eat you up". Seriously. Get a grip. Here's a little piece on detachment and there's a lot around here on this site.


"This was originally posted by Peanut.
============
II. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done. Our ego gets wounded and we say or do things that undermine our goals.

We can NOT control the actions of another. We are, however, responsible for our own actions. We are responsible for our own happiness.

If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.


Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals. On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, "I am not getting what I want so I must pull back."

It is the natural acceptance of the reality that "I am alone responsible for how I act. I cannot control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."


Take this^^^ in.

Good luck

[Arsene]

Thanks for sticking around Bond. i know I don't always agree with your style or approach but it always offers me a perspective which is different from mine and that is very helpful. It stops me from being complacent.

Thanks for dropping by Mrs D. I look forward to your input.

KD, it's great to hear from you again. It feels like a long time ago, yet it's only been about 5-6 weeks, hasn't it? I appreciate what you re saying and I do think that it is the way to go for now.

As you and Bond are suggesting, I will seek the advice of other lawyers just to get confirmation and I will also call my embassy to see if they are familiar with such a situation.

Thanks for dropping by.

[MrBond]

25, I'm going to have to disagree with you. This isn't about control it's about establishing boundaries.

Fact is that the W took his D to an outdoor concert (so calls wouldn't have mattered) and brought her back at 2 in the morning, 3 hours after she was supposed to be brought back. She should have at least called as a courtesy, after all she was on the road for 3 hours.

And besides, what 8 year old hangs out with concert people and then comes back at 2 in the morning? He was worried and left her messages which she didn't have the courtesy to return.

Sorry it just seems like it's total cake eating.

[Arsene]

I think the cake eating part is her assuming I would drive her and D8 across town in the morning. she didn't really ask me she just assumed it and I'm sorry if it did rub me the wrong way but it did. I didn't cancel my lesson to drive her and I don't think that is a bad thing either. i I had rushed to try and please her it would have been pursuing.

With regards to the concert, I had no problems with the concert itself. They left in the morning and were supposee to be back in the evening. I think it is simple courtesy to inform someone if one is going to be late. At 22:00, I have no news and was starting to be worried. Why? It could be the horrible traffic and the way people drive in general which worried me. I don't know but I am that way. if someone is a few hours late and there are no phone calls, I worry. I believe I did mention in post #2273843 that I was venting.

"That is why I'm here venting now. It's so frustrating to see this and there is nothing I can do about any of it. Is she ever going to realise how selfish she is being? Or am I just judging her again? I don't know anymore. Have I not the right to worry about my D8? If she was going to be that late, maybe she shouldn't have taken her in the first place. What is happening to her? God! I want so much to love her and to support her but she is not helping me one bit now ,is she? Or am I just being unreasonable?"

As it turned out, she had texted me and I got the texts at 6 am. I am glad I didn't make a big deal out of this with her. I came here to vent my frustrations. Right or wrong. With regards to motives, I don't know. I really think that if I had received a call, it would have been ok, but 25, you have seen through me before and I guess you may be right. I wasn't invited. I was left out and I'm not used to this yet. This, in my view, is still my family and I wish I could be with them. You may be right.

On the other hand, 2:30 am for an 8-year-old girl, school night or not, is a bit excessive. Is that me trying to control the situation? Perhaps.

Detachment, detachment, detachment. I know I have to get there. Why is it so difficult? I understand the concept and the reason for it so why?

[Arsene]

Well, now that I've done my rounds, here is what happened yesterday, the day after my W dropped D8 at home at 2:30 am.

First of all, I had to cancel my meditation class because, not only I couldn't get back to sleep right away after D8 got back but also because at 6 am, my phone rang with two texts my W had send the night before. That woke me up and i didn't get back to sleep.

When dropping off D8, W said she'd be around today but didn't specify what time so I figured I wouldn't worry about it. That it probably would be quite late anyway considering how late she'd gone to bed.

Spent the morning reading and catching up on this site and in the early pm, asked D8 if she wanted to go to the pool. We left around 1 pm and as I was leaving, I noticed that W's swimsuit was on the clothes line next to mine so I put it in my bag, just in case. W had mentioned a few times that she might like to join us at the pool if we ever went.

When we got to the pool, I asked D8 to let her mom know where we were. I wanted to avoid a situation like last week when i was accused of trying to keep D8 away from W. Unfortunately, D8's phone had no credit so I had to text W myself.

Me- Hi W. We're at XXXX pool. We have your swimsuit if you want to come. Have a nice day.

About 30 minutes later, as D8 and i were having a ball in the pool, W showed up. She was cheerful and after she put on her swimsuit, joined us in our games.

It was a great time for D8 and one 180 for me was that i ended up playing with a bunch of local kids and my D8 but after a while, D8 went to join her mom and me and the local kids had a great time playing with a ball in the water (me speaking in the local language) W sat nearby, pensively, watching us play.

Once we were done I went for a shower and since D8 and W were going to take their shower and W had the car, I simply said I would leave now and see them home(I was with my bicycle). I think W was a bit surprised and annoyed because it meant that she had to carry all her stuff to the locker room but we said goodbye and I left.

W and D8 eventually got home and W and I had a real nice light convo in which I actually listened, showed interest and validated. I only spoke to show interest and validate and the whole convo was from her and on her. In fact, while we wre talking, D8 kept asking her mom :"can we play now?" and W would tell her to please wait a bit because her and daddy were talking.

During the convo I also kept eye contact and we had a good laugh as well. Then, the 3 of us played around on the bed, tickling D8 and then we had dinner together.

After dinner, W and D8 went to the front porch and I got ready to leave (I had arranged to meet a friend). When W saw me come out dressed as if I was leaving, she was a bit taken aback but stayed cool, simply stating:" HO, you're going out?"

I said yes and wasn't going to say anything else but then D8 asked if i was going with "Uncle G" (one of my friends). I wished i could have left with an aura of mystery but i didn't want to lie so I said that yes, I was meeting uncle G and a few other friends.

Before leaving, I thanked W for joining us at the pool, saying that D8 had had a good time. She thanked me for inviting her and said she'd also had a good time.

I know it's been a few "family days" in the last week and many might say that I'm pursuing (perhaps I am), but again, this being a holiday, I think it's important that we spend a bit of time as a family and since we all love swimming, it's also a good venue for this. We don't always have to be in each other's face while at the pool.

I feel good about the day and the convo. I realise how important it was not to give in to my impulse to take over the convo. I know I need to work more on this and it's been added on my list of 180s.

[Carnac]

Arsene,
Wether it is pursuing or not is kind of up to each person's interpretation, but for me I think you did an awesome job. Not only did she see you interacting with your D8 and other children, but she also saw that she could be there and enjoy herself without having to worry that you would be right next to her the entire time trying to talk about your relationship.

You played and enjoyed yourself without smothering her, then you had a brief conversation in which you listened more than talked, kept it pretty brief it seems and got yourself ready and left. It doesn't matter that she knew who you were meeting....she doesn't know where or what your plans were so you've got some mystery there.

[Carnac]

Remember they are scared.....I really think they want to trust us but they are incredibly worried about what will happen if they do. You've gotta show through every action that if she trusts you enough to start moving back towards you that it is "safe" there.

I've been told multiple times that I have to make every effort to show my wife that I am a "soft, safe place to land". I don't think that means you become a doormat, but it does mean that you show empathy....for me personally im working really hard to learn empathy...not that I dont have any, its just that I don't normally use it. My theory used to always be whatever your problem happened to be just get over it and move on...this has taught me that things aren't always that simple and to others their problems, or what is bothering them may be just as big as this situation is to me.

If they're feeling bad about something and it hurts them/disturbs them as much as this situation has disturbed me then I need to learn how to share in that pain with them the same way we share in each other's pain here and really care about what they are going through b/c it matters to them.

[Arsene]

I hear you man. I'm working on empathy as well. One of my biggest 180s and the toughest on to achieve, but it is cetral to all the changes I'm working on. if I can get this, ll the resst is g0ing to fall into place. Thanks Carnac. Lots of wisdom up here. Glad to see that a lot of us are doing well this weekend. Have fun at your son's game tomorrow.

[Arsene]

Well, just a bit of an update before I call it a night.

I was just chatting with SIL who lives in another nearby country. W had confided in her before the Bomb Drop and for some reasons, SIL contacted me a few time via FB. Today we were able to talk a lot more openly. She is totally in my camp and she doesn't understand her sister. She told me that she talked to W on the phone a few weeks ago and that she'd asked if W had another man. Apparently W said that she was seeing OM but that it wasn't serious. That they were just friends. (I know! believe none of what they say!). Another piece of info which came my way, is the fact that other than SIL, W's family is in the dark. W hasn't told anyone about our separation, or her intentions.

SIL says that she too, doesn't recognize her sister and although she promised never to tell W that we occasionally chat and that I talk to her, she said that since she was W's confident, she would make sure that if W came to her looking for answers or with uncertainty about what she is doing, she would gently point the way.

An interesting thing here is that SIL went through a similar thing a few years ago when her H repeatedly had PA with the same OW. She is full of determination and strength and to know that this incredible woman who managed to get her H back after a few years of going through what I'm going now, is on my side makes me feel very good. She told me to keep up the good work and to be patient and loving. She is convinced that her sister will return.

I know that I shouldn't put too much weight into this but I can't help but feeling good about it for now.

[Arsene]

I woke up this morning and felt like I had to contact SIL. I sent her a text to ask her not to put any sort of pressure on W. I feel that it might backfire, or that simply, W might stop talking to her.

I did ask her to be there for her and even to try and gauge the situation with other man, find out what W sees in him and how he fulfills her(as per chapter on infidelity in DR).

I also asked her to see how W is feeling about "us" lately. I'm certain SIL can do that without revealing she is reporting back to me, and without raising suspicion. They are confidantes after all.

She can also talk about her own experience and what she went through in her struggle to save her marriage.

I think the most important thing she can do is to be there for her and that if one day W is ready to come back but is uncertain, SIL can then guide her gently.

I know that a lot of you might say it's a no-no but I had been wondering how to get intel about W's relationship with OM so I can get a better idea of what W is looking for (and if I can offer her that) and this seems to be the only way I can do it. I realise that W might not be totally honest with her sister but still, I'm sure I can get some info about what is on her mind, and if what I'm doing now is working.

I appreciate your thoughts (2X4s included)